I'm fairly new to model railroads.
I have used Woodland Scenics "Scenic Cement" to glue ballast, sand, etc. I like that it dries without any shine.
I've read that I can do the same with white glue and water.
I know that full strength white glue will dry shiny.
Does the watered down glue have a shine to it?
York1 John
I use white glue, 3 parts water to 1 part glue, with isopropyl alcohol straight t from the bottle. The alcohol, applied with a pipette, goes on first.
I don't notice any shinyness. I use Woodland Scenics ballast.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
I only use yellow carpenter's glue for both scenery fixing and ballast glueing. Seems to work just fine, no issues with gloss...ever.
...and, out in the sunshine, on a diorama:
I use white glue and water, 50/50 by guess. Pre wet ''almost soak'' with wetwater.
Also 50/50 alcohol,water. dribble on glue,you can see it spread. Even the puddles will dry dull/flat
You can rewet and scrape it off if needed, or add to it
You will get so many different answers... here is mine.
.
I use Elmers Glue-All (white glue) diluted 8:1 with water for spraying or 4:1 for pipette application. I always add a few drops of Kodak Photo-Flo.
-Kevin
Living the dream.
I've used both Scenic cement, and diluted Matte Medium. No difference noticed between the two.
Ricky W.
HO scale Proto-freelancer.
My Railroad rules:
1: It's my railroad, my rules.
2: It's for having fun and enjoyment.
3: Any objections, consult above rules.
White glue is considerably cheaper than either Scenic Cement or matte medium, especially if you buy it by the gallon.
An advantage of white glue, besides the price, is that it's water soluble if you need to remove the ballast after it's in-place and hardened. I usually mix the white glue using about 40% glue and 60% water, but varying the proportions either way doesn't seem to make much difference. I use "wet" water (tap water with a few drops of dish detergent added) as a pre-wetting agent once all of the ballast and/or ground cover is in place, using a sprayer that puts out a fine mist. Sufficient pre-wetting is the key to getting a good strong bond, so don't skimp on the pre-wetting. I have some areas where the ballast, sub-ballast and supporting rip-rap is over an inch deep, and it's solidly in place right down to the bottom....
While not everyone will agree with using wet water as the wetting agent, rather than alcohol, it does allow you to pre-wet a greater area and still allow you time to add the diluted glue before the wetting agent evapourates. The downside, for those in a rush, is that the drying time for the ballast/groundcover is longer. While some areas on my layout took over a week to fully harden, there were lots of other modelling tasks to fill those hours.
There was, at one time, a pair of turnouts in the curve shown below, fully-ballasted and forming a cross-over between the two tracks. When it became evident that they weren't needed, I unsoldered the railjoiners, pulled out the track nails, and then soaked the area with wet water.
In 10 minutes or so, the turnouts were lifted, and then the ballast and ground cover scraped-up, new track soldered in place, and the affected area re-ballasted. There's no evidence that the turnouts were ever there...
For another quick job, the siding on the left, in the photo below, needed to be lengthened by moving its turnout closer to the road at the bottom of the photo...
....after unsoldering the rail joiners, and wetting the area, the turnout and adjoining track was lifted...
...and the area cleaned-up...
After re-aligning the track as necessary, the turnout was re-soldered into its new location....
...and the track re-ballasted...
A couple of days later, it was back in service...
Wayne
doctorwayne White glue is considerably cheaper than either Scenic Cement or matte medium, especially if you buy it by the gallon. An advantage of white glue, besides the price, is that it's water soluble if you need to remove the ballast after it's in-place and hardened. I usually mix the white glue using about 40% glue and 60% water, but varying the proportions either way doesn't seem to make much difference. I use "wet" water (tap water with a few drops of dish detergent added) as a pre-wetting agent once all of the ballast and/or ground cover is in place, using a sprayer that puts out a fine mist. Sufficient pre-wetting is the key to getting a good strong bond, so don't skimp on the pre-wetting. I have some areas where the ballast, sub-ballast and supporting rip-rap is over an inch deep, and it's solidly in place right
An advantage of white glue, besides the price, is that it's water soluble if you need to remove the ballast after it's in-place and hardened. I usually mix the white glue using about 40% glue and 60% water, but varying the proportions either way doesn't seem to make much difference. I use "wet" water (tap water with a few drops of dish detergent added) as a pre-wetting agent once all of the ballast and/or ground cover is in place, using a sprayer that puts out a fine mist. Sufficient pre-wetting is the key to getting a good strong bond, so don't skimp on the pre-wetting. I have some areas where the ballast, sub-ballast and supporting rip-rap is over an inch deep, and it's solidly in place right
This might be a dumb question, but you never know until you ask. When you add the detergent to the water are you supposed shake it up to mix it?
Thanks for everyone's help. I'm looking forward to using something cheaper than the scenic cement I've been using.
Orangeman This might be a dumb question, but you never know until you ask. When you add the detergent to the water are you supposed shake it up to mix it?
I use a gentle rocking motion to mix the detergent with the water. Too vigorously shaken and it will be sudsy.
Marlon
See pictures of the Clinton-Golden Valley RR
OrangemanThis might be a dumb question, but you never know until you ask. When you add the detergent to the water are you supposed shake it up to mix it?
Not dumb at all. The detergent seems to disperse quite rapidly without shaking, and therefore avoids the issue of having a bottle or jug full of bubbles.
My sprayer looks like it has a capacity of about one Imperial quart, and I use perhaps 3 or 4 drops of detergent in it, added after it's been filled with water.
The glue/water mixture does require shaking when you create it, and if it sits too long between uses, should be shaken well before using. If the container in which it's stored isn't completely opaque, you should be able to see much of the white glue settled to the bottom - shake until it's all mixed back into the water.
I'd also strongly advise you to apply the glue mixture using a container which will allow you to do so by-the-drop. I use this small dropper bottle (from an unknown source)...
...but even a squeeze-type dispenser for ketchup or mustard can work well.Some folks prefer to spray the diluted white glue, but it coats whatever it falls upon - track, structures, already-finished scenery, or, if you're not careful, even the trains.
LION USE GRAVITY...
Works fine in all scales including 1:1.
PS him use kat litter for ballast. Much cheaper across 15 miles of track
The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.
Here there be cats. LIONS with CAMERAS
I've noticed my last two trips to Wal-Mart that Elmers is selling gallon jugs of clear glue. Does anyone know what type of glue this is and can it be substituted for white glue in model railroading applications?
No help on their website except it boils at 100 C and the pH is 4.6. Last time I was in Michaels they had plenty of old fashioned Elmers in gallon jugs.
Why use clear when you can use glow in the dark and return to the psychedelic days of the 60's, man? Swap those led's out for some black lights and you are all set.
Henry
COB Potomac & Northern
Shenandoah Valley
BigDaddy Last time I was in Michaels they had plenty of old fashioned Elmers in gallon jugs.
I'm not sure that that stuff is the same as the white glue we're used to using. I think it is the white glue they use in schools for kids.
maxman BigDaddy Last time I was in Michaels they had plenty of old fashioned Elmers in gallon jugs. I'm not sure that that stuff is the same as the white glue we're used to using. I think it is the white glue they use in schools for kids.
Now I'm getting confused. I was thinking that I would buy Elmer's white glue. Isn't that the stuff others are talking about?
York1 maxman BigDaddy Last time I was in Michaels they had plenty of old fashioned Elmers in gallon jugs. I'm not sure that that stuff is the same as the white glue we're used to using. I think it is the white glue they use in schools for kids. Now I'm getting confused. I was thinking that I would buy Elmer's white glue. Isn't that the stuff others are talking about?
Could be. Someone would need to make sure. I think there is a large prie differential between the Michael’s stuff and what they sell at Home Depot.
Maybe all the same, but I remember asking one time and was told there was a difference.
Edit: okay, went and looked. Price about the same for a gallon both places. Michaels item is called School Glue, HD item is called All Purpose.
Maybe both the same???
I just read some sites that say Elmer's School Glue is water soluble even after it dries, while Elmer's Glue All is water soluble, but not after it dries.
Who knew?
York1I just read some sites that say Elmer's School Glue is water soluble even after it dries, while Elmer's Glue All is water soluble, but not after it dries.
Elmer's Glue All remains water soluble after it dries. I've been using it for ballast for over 30 years partly for that reason.
Rob Spangler
I think it's the titebond, yellow glue that is not water soluble. Never tried, maybe it is just Internet legend.
Get a horse, and make glue out of it.
When you are done, you can eat the horse.
Tastes like Zebra.
ROARING