Here is a pic of the basic drives used in most brass diesels thru the years. First up is the "coffee grinder" drive or sometimes called the Kumata drive after the builder in Japan that made most of them. Used in many early Alco Models diesels, along with Redball, Hallmark and Trains Inc among others. The plastic gears in the tower and sometimes on the axles are prone to split. Replacements are available from NWSL for now. Some owners retruck with Atlas/Kato or Athearn Blue box trucks. At one time, both Oriental Limited then Challenger Imports offered replacement Samhongsa made trucks for many earlier diesels to improve operation. These show up on ebay and at train shows from time to time. This drive is from an Alco Models RS32
Then we have the later Samhongsa drive(thier early ones were like the Kumata and have the same noise). These are much like an Athearn blue box noise wise but quiet way down with some run time. They are prone to split plastic gears inside the trucks, but spares from NWSL are availible for a bit longer. This drive is from an Oriental Limited F3
Here we have the early "tank" drive used by Ajin for Overland Models, center gear box feeds drive shafts that exit from the fuel tank to individual gearboxes on each axle. The earliest are prone to zinc pest in those boxes and this one has that issue, I have them JB welded to keep them together and the model runs well, quieter than a blue box Athearn. The second run has the black diecast gear boxes that become standard and I have a spare set of trucks for this model for when these do finally fall victim to the zinc pest. This drive is from a Overland/Ajin GP35
Then finally, we have the drive that became pretty much standard in the Ajin built models for Overland and others, low profile tower drive, Buhler can motor, black diecast gear boxes on each axle that resemble traction motors and sprung axles. This is from an Overland/Ajin SD70 that is factory painted for IC. These are uber smooth and quiet once properly lubricated and run in some.
Most all newer brass, especially since factory painted models came around, are not lubricated much if at all at the factory. This is to prevent the lubrication from getting on the plastic wrapper and finding its way onto the beautiful and expensive paint work. Very important as many models never see opeartion or are even removed from the box. So if your going to operation of these, make sure to properly lubricate the gear boxes and axle ends. The early drives usually have hardened grease in the truck gear boxes and varnish on the rotating shafts. Some run time on a rolling road or with no load on a loop of track will help free up a stiff chassis. Mike the Aspie
Silly NT's, I have Asperger's Syndrome
I have four of the last model shown. One is in my FP7, and the others are in Overland Chassis to repower other models. I have one SW1500 chassis, one GE chassis, and one for an E unit. All run very well.
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I had an older Hallmark F unit with an older style, and it ran awful.
I also had a switcher with a cracked gear, Not sure which chassis I had, I traded it away.
-Kevin
Living the dream.
I have an early 90s Overland NW-5 with that last drive.Very smooth and quiet, I give it that. But the engine is hollow, with no added weight; it can only pull about four cars. There is plenty of room to add weight when I get to it, though.
Disclaimer: This post may contain humor, sarcasm, and/or flatulence.
Michael Mornard
Bringing the North Woods to South Dakota!
Yes, many brass engines need extra weight to pull well. Most diesels have a hollow fuel tank you can fill with ballest and with the low profile motor and drive line in most Overland Models diesels, you have plenty of room for a Decoder and speaker for those that want DCC. A can motor, added wheel wipers and lots of run time can help those old coffee grinder drives, but they will always have gear noise, the hollow brass shell doesn't help either. Adding some lead or other ballest inside the shell also helps dampen the sound a bit. Replacing the trucks with ones from Atlas/Kato or whatever you can adapt is the best solution, along with a can motor. Mike
Interesting topic, Mike. I just bought this on ebay. The description, and I quote:
HO SCALE BRASS ALCO K.M.T. RS-1 DIESEL LOCOMOTIVE
“NEED'S WORK--THIS LOCOMOTIVE WON'T RUN--LIKE NEW CONDITION---”
I wonder how the drive in it will be. I look forward to playing around with it, and, as good as it looks in all the pictures, I am prepared to put a Kato drive that I have in it if it can't be made to run really well. Dan
Going by the description of it being a KMT drive, that will be similar to the coffee grinder set up I posted above. Probably has split axle gears or split gears in the exposed gear towers. It is fixable, NWSL has replacements for both but the noise will remain. I would reuse the chassis, but purchase a set of Atlas/Kato trunks from the RS or Century series diesels and mount them to the brass chassis. Then use either the Kato motor or whatever can motor you like. Canon and Sagami are excellent and can be found on ebay. Mike
It arrived yesterday. I didn't let myself open it until I finished up a project I'd been working some kinks into. (More on that later)
I first hooked up wires to see what it would do. No current draw. I took the body off to see what might be disconnected. Well, there was no motor! Contacted the seller and she cheerfully made it right by me.
None of the gears are split. I temporarily rubber-tubed a motor to a truck, it all works smoothy enough in my hand. On the rails the noise level remains to be seen. It looks so pretty in shiny brass, I may keep it as a shelf queen. For a while.
There's another drive that should be mention and that is the whiney drive Tenshodo used in their diesels..That whine was louder then the KTM drive.
If I may share some fond memories? I will delete if requested.
That RS1 photo brings back a lot of joyful memories..You see I bought four of those engines for my Detroit Connecting RR back in the mid 60s. I painted them black bodies with yellow frames and yellow Detroit Connecting decals from Champ's private road name decals.
I used #15 as a yard switcher during the last four operating sessions at the Columbus HO club before the layout was dismantle and the club moved to a old office building at Buckeye Steel..Today that layout is gone too.
Back in the day we was use to loud diesel drives.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
The Tenshodo units used a phenolic(sp) fiber gear that defintatly "whines" more than the plastic in the KMT drives. Both brands are helped with a can motor, which reduces some noise. I used Athearn blue box drive shaft parts when repowered either brand, and you can still get those style drive lines along with nice Mashima motors from A Line. Mike
emdmike I used Athearn blue box drive shaft parts when repowered either brand, and you can still get those style drive lines along with nice Mashima motors from A Line. Mike
Mike,I wonder if the newer Athearn RTR drive shafts will work with the A-Line motors?
Hi Mike,
Interesting thread! Thanks for the tutorial.
I'm not much into brass but I do have a couple of inexpensive Alco made Alco S series switchers. I'm not sure how much work I want to put into them because the embossing on the shells is so faint. They are relegated to the back burner for now.
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
Dave, if you can paint well with an air brush, combined with some light weathering, even with the faint etching, they will look good. Many models have way out of scale etching if you take the time to measure them with a dial indicator and compare to the real locomotive. Alco Models diesel's were pretty nice for their day, which was many years ago. The best drive in a brass diesel is the later run drives from Ajin for Overland Models and others. Combining a high quality Buhler motor with a lower profile tower drive. They have a very faint "whine", kind of like the Kato drives but it is a different pitch sound. I ran that SD70 for it first time of its life at the local hobby shop this past week and it was super smooth around around the Kato 22" radius loop of Unitrak. Now she needs a TCS Wow sound decoder with Keep Alive circuit(highly recommeded in any brass model). Overland models offered their drive trucks as spare parts, so if you can find a pair of them, combined with a can motor, any older brass diesel can run as good as it can look. Mike
emdmikeDave, if you can paint well with an air brush, combined with some light weathering, even with the faint etching, they will look good.
Okay, that perks my interest. My air brush skills are reasonable. They may get taken off the back burner sooner rather than later. However, before approaching them I have a bunch of modelling to do for the club including a scratchbuild of the Huntsville, Ontario station, a nine stall roundhouse, four more control panels and an 83" bridge assembly, just to name a few. Oh, and then there are at least 20 more turnouts to upgrade for DCC (I've only done about 50 so far), plus the experiment with WS Shaper Sheet over foam rib scenery construction ala the MR Canadian Canyons project railroad..... Good thing I'm retired!