I am getting ready to upgrade the wheels on my rolling stock and have ordered new Kadee wheels for many of my cars. Anticipating that many of the trucks will have to be replaced I was going to order some of the Walthers Proto 2005 trucks until I discovered they are being discontinued. In doing further checking I found the Athearn HO Truck, Bettendorf. 33" Metal Wheels readily available. Curious as to what others’ opinions are on these. Thanks!
You might want to consider other metal replacement wheel options besides Kadee. Some complain that the blackening wears off onto the rails and also that the wheels for formed by a sintering process which means they have microscopic voids that pick up dirt more easily than machined wheels.
I also knew a guy who noted his long string of Kadee equpped Intermountain hoppers had a fair amount of drag on them. He changed the Kadee wheel sets (which have plastic axles) out for, in this case, Jaybee wheel sets which had metal needle point axles and it made big difference; much less drag.
Other options include Intermountain and Exactrail wheel sets, both have metal needle point axles.
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
Welcome! I model modern, so I look for 100 ton trucks, and I use Intermountain Wheel sets, 36" and I do keep 33" around also.
There are many brands out there for trucks. Kadee seems to be a popular brand.
The last trucks I bought was a 150 truck box full of Athearn 100 tonner, from a favorite seller on Ebay. I'm still using those. And I haven't seen any more from him lately.
I don't always replace the trucks. Most times, I use the truck that is on the car, unless it's the Talgo variety, and use a Micro Mark truck tuner to tune it up, and then install the 36" or 33" wheels.
https://www.micromark.com/HO-Truck-Tuner_2?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIuoLBreTo4AIVqSCtBh3ddghXEAYYASABEgIUBvD_BwE
If you want to buy the trucks with the wheels included, that is up to you, or you can look around for other manufacturers, like Kadee, Tichy, etc.
I think the time period your modeling also has alot to do with what trucks and wheel sets you get.
Mike.
My You Tube
riogrande5761You might want to consider other metal replacement wheel options besides Kadee. Some complain that the blackening wears off onto the rails and also that the wheels for formed by a sintering process which means they have microscopic voids that pick up dirt more easily than machined wheels.
For appearance's sake I use a wire brush in a Dremel tool and remove the blackening from the wheel tread of Kadee wheels. I suspect that same process polishes the treads and to some extent smooths out any microscopic voids.
Dave Nelson
Thanks for the replies guys.
Ordered a small number of the Kadee wheels to start out and can easily switch over to one of the other brands mentioned.
Any thoughts on the Athearn trucks? And if they are poor replacements, what would be recommended?
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I ONLY use Kadee trucks and wheels on my freight cars, these products simply perform flawlessly. Your track, wheels, and couplers all need to be perfect. Compromise elsewhere.
I have used Kadee trucks and wheels in HO for 20+ years, and Kadee/MT in N scale for 10+ years before that. No problems, only easy operation.
-Kevin
Living the dream.
RR_Mel You need to check the axle length of the wheels and make sure you replace them with the correct length. Not all axle length is the same. I use 20 compartment organizers for small parts, couplers and wheels. Between diameter and axle length I have 8 compartments in the wheel organizer with different size wheel sets.
You need to check the axle length of the wheels and make sure you replace them with the correct length. Not all axle length is the same. I use 20 compartment organizers for small parts, couplers and wheels. Between diameter and axle length I have 8 compartments in the wheel organizer with different size wheel sets.
Now that reboxx is apparently out of the running, where do you get your wheel sets with differing axle sizes?
I buy the Athearn metal wheels for my Athearn passenger cars and mostly Inter Mountain for the rest. Mel
I'm with you Mel, Intermountain seem to be the most popular metal replacement wheels. Others include Tangent, Arrowhead, ExactRail.
I've heard a few also complain that plastic axle wheel sets can get bent - AFAIK, that includes Kadee and Proto 2000.
riogrande5761 RR_Mel You need to check the axle length of the wheels and make sure you replace them with the correct length. Not all axle length is the same. I use 20 compartment organizers for small parts, couplers and wheels. Between diameter and axle length I have 8 compartments in the wheel organizer with different size wheel sets. Now that reboxx is apparently out of the running, where do you get your wheel sets with differing axle sizes? I buy the Athearn metal wheels for my Athearn passenger cars and mostly Inter Mountain for the rest. Mel I'm with you Mel, Intermountain seem to be the most popular metal replacement wheels. Others include Tangent, Arrowhead, ExactRail. I've heard a few also complain that plastic axle wheel sets can get bent - AFAIK, that includes Kadee and Proto 2000.
Right, Mel. I think the OP was looking for recommendations on what he should get to do upgrades. If the options you used to have a supply on hand are not available to new folks, then it's not going to help them. Just sayin...
riogrande5761 Right, Mel. I think the OP was looking for recommendations on what he should get to do upgrades. If the options you used to have a supply on hand are not available to new folks, then it's not going to help them. Just sayin...
I just noticed, with a name like yours, we should be asking YOU!
Many of the recent truck offerings from Kadee are of the "self-centering" variety. This isn't a problem in most cases but for an instant swap you may find that there's a little more work involved as the mounting boss (bolster pin) has to be cut or filed flat in order for the Kadee centering device to do its thing. You usually have to use the Kadee screw as well so be prepared to tap a 2-56 hole for the threads.
Like Kevin, I like Kadee products and have never had any operating or quality issues with them. Most of my rolling stock used the Kadee wheels and once the blackening has worn off the tread takes on a nice silvered patina. I can't relate to any contribution to dirty rail deposited by the wheels. Maybe there's a little more drag in the plastic axle but I haven't found that to be an issue.
I probably have a hundred or more of the original Proto (Life-Like) and Walthers Proto cars and wheels and trucks. The Proto wheels seem to be sintered metal, then plated. Many of these have lost their plating over the years. Some were poorly finished to begin with. I've found more defective wheels, like poorly formed or pitted, with the original Proto trucks/wheels. Maybe Walthers had improved on this in later runs.
For some reason the Protos are quite a bit noisier than most. I recently finished a bunch of new "old-stock" Mather box cars that came with the plated Proto wheels and I was reminded of just how much noise these things make compared to a Kadee sintered or other brand machined wheel. As the plating wears off I suppose this noise quiets down since I don't notice it as much on my older Proto cars.
I keep a few boxes of the Intermountain wheel sets around, too. Sometimes the finer needle point doesn't sit well in certain plastic truck sideframes. I use kind of a trial and error method and if one wheelset doesn't have the rolling qualities I'm looking for I swap them out for others.
Walthers certainly has the market cornered on passenger trucks. I'm not aware of any other manufacturer offering such a wide variety.
I still have lots of Bowser and Athearn sideframes that have replacement wheels and they're running very well.
Don't overlook Kato, either. I have quite a few of their trucks and have never had any regrets there, either.
Good Luck, Ed
reasearchhoundI found the Athearn HO Truck, Bettendorf. 33" Metal Wheels readily available. Curious as to what others’ opinions are on these.
Assuming you're OK with the appearance (understanding that trucks have a lot of variation in sideframe pattens, and that one design wouldn't necessarily be realistic for use on every car), the Athearn trucks can be a good option. I have quite a few Athearn RTR cars with the stock machined wheels, and no complaints about how they run.
dknelsonFor appearance's sake I use a wire brush in a Dremel tool and remove the blackening from the wheel tread of Kadee wheels. I suspect that same process polishes the treads and to some extent smooths out any microscopic voids.
I used to apply this logic too, but my Kadee wheels finally collected so much crud that I've given up on them. The polished treads didn't slow the process like I thought they should.
I'm replacing all of my Kadee wheels with machined types that are tending to stay clean. As a bonus, metal wheelsets with needlepoint axles resist axle wear and also roll more freely than the Kadee plastic axles.
Rob Spangler
gmpullmanThe Proto wheels seem to be sintered metal, then plated. Many of these have lost their plating over the years.
I had an interesting experience with older Proto-2000 wheels.
I have a Union Pacific 50 foot automobile boxcar, probably one of the original models. It sat on my alluminum display shelf for years.
One day I went to move it, and it was stuck.
When I finally got it loose, big pieces of the metal plating from the wheels stuck to the alluminum rails. They were like welded in place. I had to knck the loose with a hammer and cold chisel.
I have no idea what caused such a reaction.
SeeYou190 gmpullman The Proto wheels seem to be sintered metal, then plated. Many of these have lost their plating over the years. . I had an interesting experience with older Proto-2000 wheels. . I have a Union Pacific 50 foot automobile boxcar, probably one of the original models. It sat on my alluminum display shelf for years. . One day I went to move it, and it was stuck. . When I finally got it loose, big pieces of the metal plating from the wheels stuck to the alluminum rails. They were like welded in place. I had to knck the loose with a hammer and cold chisel. . I have no idea what caused such a reaction. . -Kevin .
gmpullman The Proto wheels seem to be sintered metal, then plated. Many of these have lost their plating over the years.
I asked Sam at Kadee about sintered wheels and he replied that their wheels and couplers are all die cast zinc.
Mark Vinski
mvlandswI asked Sam at Kadee about sintered wheeels and he replied that their wheels and couplers are all die cast zinc.
Yes, Sam has stated many times that their wheels are NOT sintered, but still, that one just persists and will not die.
I gave up a long time ago.
RR_MelDissimilar metals, Accelerated Galvanic Corrosion. Aluminum is the worst!
Uh-Oh, I have four alluminum HO scale display shelves. Kadee and Athearn wheels do not seem to have been effected.
I have replaced about 70 old trucks with new Athearn trucks of various types: 70 ton roller bearing, 100 ton roller bearing, friction bearing of different types, and they have performed flawlessly. I have tried Kadee, Walthers, and Atlas trucks and find the Athearn to be my favorites--nice performance and easy to apply a surface mount resistor across the insulated gap so that they are detectable by my signal system.
SeeYou190 mvlandsw I asked Sam at Kadee about sintered wheeels and he replied that their wheels and couplers are all die cast zinc.. Yes, Sam has stated many times that their wheels are NOT sintered, but still, that one just persists and will not die. -Kevin
mvlandsw I asked Sam at Kadee about sintered wheeels and he replied that their wheels and couplers are all die cast zinc..
The nomenclature isn't all that important at the end of the day.
What is important is performance over the long haul.
Between the dirt build-up and the axle wear, I'd rather not be in the position Rob reported of having to replace Kadee wheelsets down the line. It seem wiser to start with wheelsets that are machined and have metal needlepoint axles.
SeeYou190 RR_Mel Dissimilar metals, Accelerated Galvanic Corrosion. Aluminum is the worst! . Uh-Oh, I have four alluminum HO scale display shelves. Kadee and Athearn wheels do not seem to have been effected. . -Kevin .
RR_Mel Dissimilar metals, Accelerated Galvanic Corrosion. Aluminum is the worst!
wp8thsub ...Assuming you're OK with the appearance (understanding that trucks have a lot of variation in sideframe pattens, and that one design wouldn't necessarily be realistic for use on every car), the Athearn trucks can be a good option....
Rob's right about the variations in sideframe appearance, and those variations will also vary according to the timeframe in which your layout is set.I'm modelling the late '30s, and have, in varying amounts, at least 10 or 12 different styles of sideframes in use, and in some instances, the two trucks on a car may not match even one another, as evidenced in many photos of prototype freight cars.
I very seldom replace stock wheelsets, so much of my rolling stock is still on its original Delrin wheels - much quieter than metal, and less obtrusive in appearance, too. I haven't had any problems with wheels, other than some out-of-round ones which came with one release from Train Miniature (or Train Miniature of Illinois, or perhaps Walthers, after they took-over that product line).
Wayne
I'd be curious to know why the OP is swapping wheels and trucks. Is it upgrades for the sake of up grades or is there a genuine issue with the stock wheels and trucks which I'm assuming might currently be metal axles and plastic/delrin wheels?
I don't doubt the smooth rolling nature and sometimes improved realism of new trucks, I just question the necessity in all situations.
Are you running on a large layout where you'll have very long trains and grades and every bit of friction done away with offers a tangible real beneift? In that situation, upgrades are probably a great idea.
Alternatively -like me- are you sitting in an attic on a flat 9x5 with trains that rarely exceed 15 cars? In that case there's little to be gained by upgrading except possibly in terms of realism, though when you're mostly running un-upgraded BB'ish stuff, striving for realism in trucks isn't a big deal either.
Wayne's points that plastic wheels run quieter and are very unobtrusive is a very good one also.
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Eilif Are you running on a large layout where you'll have very long trains and grades and every bit of friction done away with offers a tangible real beneift? In that situation, upgrades are probably a great idea.
Yes. Friction and drag can be a real concern with long trains and grades. I've seen it.
I don't have Wayne's PhD in model railroading nor had a stable situation where I had a nice finished layout in controlled conditions, but I did note my rolling stock with those nice quiet plastic wheels also build up healthy layers of crud.
I'm guessing Wayne has been able to mitigate that build up but he may have conditions which work in that favor vs. others who do not. In those cases, the machined wheels may be a help in that regard.
EilifI'd be curious to know why the OP is swapping wheels and trucks.
I cannot speak for the OP, but I can tell you why I replace every single one of the trucks on my freight cars (except the Kadee kits) with Kadee trucks.
I do it for rock-solid reliability. I simply will not tolerate derailments.
For me, Kadee wheels and trucks are part of the solution.
I am not pulling trains longer than 12 cars, and I only have one (steep) grade.
Eilif I'd be curious to know why the OP is swapping wheels and trucks. Is it upgrades for the sake of up grades or is there a genuine issue with the stock wheels and trucks which I'm assuming might currently be metal axles and plastic/delrin wheels? I don't doubt the smooth rolling nature and sometimes improved realism of new trucks, I just question the necessity in all situations. Are you running on a large layout where you'll have very long trains and grades and every bit of friction done away with offers a tangible real beneift? In that situation, upgrades are probably a great idea. Alternatively -like me- are you sitting in an attic on a flat 9x5 with trains that rarely exceed 15 cars? In that case there's little to be gained by upgrading except possibly in terms of realism, though when you're mostly running un-upgraded BB'ish stuff, striving for realism in trucks isn't a big deal either. Wayne's points that plastic wheels run quieter and are very unobtrusive is a very good one also.
Pretty much just want to upgrade the running quality of my rolling stock, some of which is fairly old (55 years plus). Derailments are enough of an issue that replacing the existing wheels and, as necessary, trucks, should results in considerable improvements. Upgrading for realism is not high on my list, at least not compared to better functioning.
SeeYou190 Eilif I'd be curious to know why the OP is swapping wheels and trucks. . I cannot speak for the OP, but I can tell you why I replace every single one of the trucks on my freight cars (except the Kadee kits) with Kadee trucks. . I do it for rock-solid reliability. I simply will not tolerate derailments. . For me, Kadee wheels and trucks are part of the solution. . I am not pulling trains longer than 12 cars, and I only have one (steep) grade. . -Kevin .
Eilif I'd be curious to know why the OP is swapping wheels and trucks.
My main reason for wanting to replace the wheels/trucks is for improved performance.
Some of my rolling stock is over 55 years old and derailments are enough of an issue that I want to do what I can to improve things. Realistic appearance, although somewhat important, is not my main concern.
Hopefully, just installing new wheels will be enough with many of my cars but I imagine new trucks will be needed in others.
Sorry about what appear to be almost duplicate posts. Posted the first reply then after a full day when it didn’t appear thought perhaps I’d done something wrong so I posted a similar message. Obviously I’d forgotten the time needed for approval. But both of those were written last Friday and are just now appearing. Guess the moderating crew was off for the weekend. Regardless, thank you everyone for the feedback and discussion.