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Glazing Old Rolling Stock Windows - And Avoiding Thick-Wall Framing

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  • Member since
    December 2010
  • From: Portland, Oregon
  • 658 posts
Glazing Old Rolling Stock Windows - And Avoiding Thick-Wall Framing
Posted by Attuvian on Saturday, February 23, 2019 11:58 PM

This subject has been approached occasionally in regard to cabeese, especially the old Blue Box types.  And I'm aware of the LaserKit glazing that comes from American Model Builders - and the many who avoid that cost by using .005 / .010 sheet styrene, material from food product clamshells, and other lay-arounds.  But material is not really the issue.  What I'd most like to do is avoid the cheesy effect of the deep, car wall-width setback that results from simply flush-mounting the glazing material behind the widow frame.  Athearn and Walthers car bodies have a thickness of between 1.25 and 1.5 mm.  That translates into a scale set back for the panes of around 4.25 to 5.15 inches.  Maybe OK for a house, but not for a railroad car.

Specifically, I'd like to upgrade not just a half dozen old cabooses, but glaze all the windows on the cars that make up the old Walthers Work Train sets.  That application alone means that I'll be making my own.  Are there any ideas out there on how to minimize or reduce the depth of the setback that is produced by the thickness of these car walls?  If only someone would invent a micro router that would fit inside a car body or cupola - and sell it for $20.  Whistling

Ya know, maybe I'll just have to suck it up.  My concern may be not unlike rivet-counting.

John

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Posted by doctorwayne on Sunday, February 24, 2019 2:50 AM

I never really thought about it John, but your remarks prompted me to check a couple of mine.

My Athearn cupola-style cabooses have their window "glass" recessed about .065" (almost 6"HO) from the face of the rivetted battens surrounding the openings, while my TrueLine cabooses aren't much better, at about .060".

I have an Athearn bay window caboose that I modified with better end platforms and ladders, and I also replaced the windows with ones from Tichy.  The "glass" in those is set-in around .030", or just under 3"HO....

....but that didn't help much for the bay's windows. Embarrassed

I use .005" clear styrene for the "glass", and it's simply cemented to the rear of the window frames in the bay window car, and to the inside face of the walls in the other types.
I always figured that most cabooses were insulated, especially up here in Canada, although maybe it was only with straw or wood shavings in the old days.
While six inches of insulation is suitable for a house, it might be a little much for a caboose, although if I were part of the crew, I'd appreciate it.

A friend gave me a very nice Walthers caboose (it'll end-up in MoW service, as it's an ex-CB&Q waycar) quite different from the ones I'll be scratchbuilding.  They'll all be getting Tichy windows, too.

The Burlington car's windows are inset about .040", including a fairly prominent frame on the face of the car's siding - not too bad, I think.

If you can find suitably-sized windows (Tichy or ex-Grandt Line) that would fit in the openings if you were to remove the stock windows, the "glass" mounts on the rear face of the window frames, not the inside of the thicker caboose walls.

Wayne

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Posted by j. c. on Sunday, February 24, 2019 5:00 AM

l'll go with doc on this one i simply replace windows with tichy ones.

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Posted by mbinsewi on Sunday, February 24, 2019 7:17 AM

I kind of share your angst over window glass when I refurbish diesel locomotives.  The thick glass insert, like on Athearns is something I try to avoid.  There are glazing kits available for what I do, but so far, I've spent the time and cut my own.  To get a clear view of the "crew" makes it worth it.

This Athearn BB Dash 9 is an example.  The picture doesn't clearly show the glass, but it kind of captures what I try to do. 

This one didn't turn out too bad, but I try to improve each time I do it.  These were cut from regular sheet clear styrene, I don't know the thickness.

It takes time and a few tries to get it close enough for being acceptable.

I'm going through the same thoughts as I slowly work on a long time dream project of putting together a "custom" passenger train.  The Athearn insets that came with the collection of cars I have aquired are in bad shape, and new replacements for all the cars are not out there.

So I wonder just how I'm going handle the glass.  Pasenger cars aren't too bad as far as thickness, so I might take the easy way out, and put the glazing on the inside.  Watching Amtraks Hiawatha Service between Milw. and CHI. you don't really notice it.

Watching our HO scale trains from the distance we do, even being close, maybe 20", would be about 145' away, so maybe I just won't worry about it.

Mike.

 

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Posted by dstarr on Sunday, February 24, 2019 9:29 AM

I glaze all the windows I can, I think the glint of "glass"  improves the realism of the model.  I use either real thin sheet styrene, or those transparent "clamshells" the Entermann's danish comes in.  I just glue the clear window glazing to the inside of the model's body shell, and accept the overly deep window framing that yields.  I use "plastic welding" cement, either hobby shop branded or just straight MEK from the paint store. 

This is an Ambroid 1 in 5000 kit I built many many year ago, with glazing just glued to the inside of the basswood sheet body.  What you could do, it's a bit tedious bt it ought to work, is cut the glazing material to be a friction fit inside the window opening.  Once fitted and adjusted straight, a whisper of plastic weld will make everything snug.  To get the friction fit right, place the glazing material behind the window opening, and mark it with a pencil.

   Good luck.

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Posted by Attuvian on Sunday, February 24, 2019 10:02 AM

Thanks, guys. Let's see how this string develops.  I can be grateful in at least one respect: all the windows that I need to do are rectangular. That makes anything I might cut to fit inside the frames at least possible.  I might research the Tichy option, though that's a lot of window replacement.  And skewed or too generous cut-outs would be extra labor to repair.

BTW, like Mike, I also am less than thrilled with the "coke bottle" effect of a lot of inserts that come either as stock or as after market add-ons.

All of a sudden I am reminded of the advice of a friend many years ago: "In the present scheme of things, perfection exists only in heaven."

John

  • Member since
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  • From: Bakersfield, CA 93308
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Posted by RR_Mel on Sunday, February 24, 2019 12:43 PM

I had the deep window syndrome for years and thought I found the cure.  I spent hours making my own windows using .04” clear sheet Styrene.  I cut a piece the same size of the window opening and using Testors Clear Parts Cement glued it to a slightly larger piece for backing.  When the cement dried I put the Styrene in place and it looked great, no more deep window look.  I spent more hours to finish all of the side windows but just covered the door windows from the inside.
 
Well over time and when not one single guest ever noticed the tons of work I put into the caboose even after telling them the story I decided that it was a waste of time.  I was the only one that appreciated all my effort.
 
So much for deep windows! 
 
I even removed the Athearn flush passenger windows during my lighting upgrade.  I replaced them with .04” clear sheet Styrene.
 
My Athearn SP Bay Window Caboose really does look very good but that put an end to my Window OCD.
 
 
 
Mel
 
 
My Model Railroad   
 
Bakersfield, California
 
I'm beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.
 
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Posted by j. c. on Sunday, February 24, 2019 1:49 PM

one time i replaced the window inserts  a 14 car train of athearn heavy weights, what i did was to cut .020 steel to drop into openings , lines car up on a magantic mill table  clamped car on table drop inserts in openings turned magent on , after grinding a relif in a 1/4 inch mill i set millup to contact insert and backed off .002 started on one end of car milled to clamp moves clamp and milled to other end , after  that had a thined grove behind windows where i just glued a strip of .005 clear to side . but after all that  like mel nobody ever noticed it .   

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Posted by mbinsewi on Sunday, February 24, 2019 2:23 PM

Wow, now that is work!  I bet it looked great in your eyes!   

With me, I'm the only one that sees them.  I have no visitors, other than the wife, and our son, when he stops over.  The only other way my stuff is looked at is when I show pictures.

None of it is good enough to show off on places like the Diesel Detailer (talk about excellent work!), so, i'm not going to worry about.

This short thread has been the therapy I needed. Laugh

Mike.

 

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Posted by doctorwayne on Sunday, February 24, 2019 3:28 PM

Now that I remember, I used .010" clear styrene to put flush-mounted end windows into four of these...

...and this one, too...

If all of your cabooses are the same type and manufacturer, there should be only a limited number of shapes and sizes involved.  You should then be able to mass produce them for push-in installation from the outside, using a little canopy glue or some WeldBond, both of which dry clear.

Wayne

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