So my earlier thread on this topic kind of died, and I thought I had figured out the answer: an older brass Mantua model. But, the more I look at pictures, the more skeptical I am about this. For one, the smokestack looks like it is from a PFM United loco:https://www.ebay.com/itm/PFM-United-HO-Scale-Prairie-King-2-6-2-ATL-ASAHI-Steam-Locomotive-Tender-w-Box/254084492132?hash=item3b289dab64:g:IVUAAOSw4zdcRJnz:rk:5:pf:0 . and the loco generally doesn't look like the mantua one that I thought was correct. Maybe the tender and loco are from different manufacturers? Anyway, I WILL show pictures, in the next post I make. I would like to know what this unit really is, some history behind it, and a general age and price. this loco is NOT for sale, but I am just curious.
Thanks, TM05/MatthewB
Here is a link to the pictures:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ZtwM70MOb2XFozhUtMPQrxrGdqE8elwr8-NcrxvlSdI/edit?usp=sharing
Thanks a lot, Trainman05/MatthewB.
To my eyes the boiler, running gear and underframe under the cab all look like the old (1940s to early 1950s) Mantua "Eight Ball" brass boiler-ed 2-6-0 (brass boiler but other parts were metal castings). Yes the stack and other details look different from the original but then, even the photos in the HO Seeker photo gallery of this engine show that many after market parts on that particular example had been added to the engine that was photographed. They were a very basic locomotive - no boiler bands for example.
Someone spent some time, talent and effort on making changes to your engine. But I continue to believe that the "bones" of the thing are the Mantua "Eight Ball" 2-6-0.
Dave Nelson
That cloth covered wire to the tender is another hint that we are dealing with something from the older era of Mantua steam.
Oh, Cool! The drawbar between the loco and tender is made of leather, my grandpa's and my idea. Would it be considered a sin to replace the motor, put new trucks on the tender, and MAYBE add some DCC? I want this beauty to shine and show off, maybe at a train club.
Not at all. I'm a runner, not a collector. I like my stuff to run, not sit on a shelf to look nice.
I do agree this is the mantua loco. The detail parts may vary because there was a huge business in supplying detail parts so owners could 'personalize' their locos - Kemtron was a big maker of such detail parts back in the day. So it's entirely possible that some previous owner changed a few things out.
Still think the craziest thing I ever saw was the addition of a Kemtron Cab Forward cab front casting and a 4 wheel leading truck added to a Dockside loco, with a tender hooked on behind. It was step by step shown in the book "The COmplete Book of Model Railroading" by David Sutton - one of my favorite older model railroad books. Turned it into a 4-4-0T cab forward. I always thought it looked neat and wanted to make one, but it just doesn't fit even remotely my chosen prototype no matter how big a piece of paper my modeler's license is written on.
That book has not one but two chapters on the then-new GE ASTRAC carrier control system, which is why I have been a command control proponent since long before the DCC standards were ever ratified.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
Can anyone recommend some good replacement can motors for cheap? the inside dimensions are as follows: inside boiler : 9/16" wide, approx. 1" tall, length from end of worm gear to end of motor: 2 1/2". For metric users, that is approx. 1cm/2.5cm/6cm, respectively. Voltage wise, it is HO scale. I don't think(correct me if I'm wrong)that there is much veriation there.
Thanks, TM05/MatthewB.
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That’s not a Mantua engine. It’s a Roundhouse/MDC 0-6-0 that’s been modified as a 2-6-0. Below is link to pic of Mantua “8 Ball” Mogul.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/9977705@N05/4285542879
Well, in that case, how old is it, and how much would it be worth? I'm NOT selling it, but I want to know what I have on my hands. I think we were drawn to Mantua because that is what the tender says, but apparently the loco is different.
While others think this is a Mantua Mogul (8-ball), I think it's a MDC Roundhouse 0-6-0 with added lead truck and diamond stack. Look at how small the drivers are. Plus the cab, pure SP 0-6-0. John Allen had one of these on the Gorre and Daphetid, and if you look at that one, you will see what inspired this particular conversion.
Trainman2005 Well, in that case, how old is it, and how much would it be worth? I'm NOT selling it, but I want to know what I have on my hands. I think we were drawn to Mantua because that is what the tender says, but apparently the loco is different. Thanks, TM05/MatthewB.
From the looks of it, it dates from the 50’s. As for what it’s worth, the best answer I can give is “not much”. Original 0-6-0’s are easy to find and modify. As yours currently stands, I might offer you $20-25, but only if i wanted to modify the aft part of the frame to insert a trailing truck and make a 2-6-2 out of it. There are a couple of unbuilt kits on EBay right now in the $25 range.
Andre
This thread and your pictures made me go dig out my own li'l old MDC 0-6-0 for a comparison. Not counting the changes, the boiler, cab, drivers and driver spacing, cylinders, as has been mentioned already, are spot on for the MDC.
But there is one question this raises. Yours has the motor angled down in the frame, Mantua style. My model has the motor mounted parallel to the frame, not angled. And it has a reduction idler gear. (Bought in the '80s, but I'd seen '70s MDCs like this)
My best guess is that MDC changed the drive at some point? Or, less likely, someone altered the original frame? Dan
Maybe yours is modified with a different motor, because the original motor sounds really bad, on mine at least. It sounds more like an underpowered blender than a model train. I am looking into a new can motor for the train, so that I could maybe run it at a train club in the future.
The model pictured is probably an earlier one, as others have noted, probably from the 1950s or 1960s. In the mid 1970s, the mechanism was modified with a reduction gear between the worm gear and the driver, still with an open frame motor. You can see this transition on the instruction sheets for the model at HOSeeker. The original model was introduced in 1939. I have seen one of these (later production) with a can motor and reduction gear which ran quite nicely.
Any recommendations for good replacement motors? I think I already posted inside dimensions.
Anyone else nostalgic for something they were born 80 years late for?
andrechapelon That’s not a Mantua engine. It’s a Roundhouse/MDC 0-6-0 that’s been modified as a 2-6-0. Below is link to pic of Mantua “8 Ball” Mogul. https://www.flickr.com/photos/9977705@N05/4285542879
andrechapelon From the looks of it, it dates from the 50’s. As for what it’s worth, the best answer I can give is “not much”. Original 0-6-0’s are easy to find and modify. As yours currently stands, I might offer you $20-25, but only if i wanted to modify the aft part of the frame to insert a trailing truck and make a 2-6-2 out of it. There are a couple of unbuilt kits on EBay right now in the $25 range. Andre
Andre,
I think you are comparing apples to oranges here... This is a nicely done modified vintage engine with a nice petina. $25 for this engine would be a steal. I believe you are correct with an engine that is original condition, but not this engine.
I have sold on eBay for over 15 years now. My username is a69mustang4me and I have over 20K transactions, so I do have some experience with what things will sell for. Lately prices have been down and I do not see them coming back, but nice pieces such as this still do fairly well. I just saw a early mantua all-brass 4-6-2 Reading Pacific sell for almost $300. I would espect this engine to sell for at least $30-$40 or possibly a little more.
Sean
Mustangs_n_Trains andrechapelon From the looks of it, it dates from the 50’s. As for what it’s worth, the best answer I can give is “not much”. Original 0-6-0’s are easy to find and modify. As yours currently stands, I might offer you $20-25, but only if i wanted to modify the aft part of the frame to insert a trailing truck and make a 2-6-2 out of it. There are a couple of unbuilt kits on EBay right now in the $25 range. Andre Andre, I think you are comparing apples to oranges here... This is a nicely done modified vintage engine with a nice petina. $25 for this engine would be a steal. I believe you are correct with an engine that is original condition, but not this engine. I have sold on eBay for over 15 years now. My username is a69mustang4me and I have over 20K transactions, so I do have some experience with what things will sell for. Lately prices have been down and I do not see them coming back, but nice pieces such as this still do fairly well. I just saw a early mantua all-brass 4-6-2 Reading Pacific sell for almost $300. I would espect this engine to sell for at least $30-$40 or possibly a little more. Sean
First of all, the overwhelming number of 2-6-0’s ever built had the main rod connected to the second driver, whereas this one has the main rod connected to the third. John Allen actually had a 2-6-0 made out of a Roundhouse kit, but the frame had been replaced so that the engine looked like a standard 2-6-0. Personally, I really don’t care what someone else would pay for it, I’d only go $20-25 and that’s with the caveat that I intended to turn it into a 2-6-2.
As for someone being willing to pay $300 for an old Mantua Reading Pacific, good for them. You couldn’t give me one. I might go $200 for a Varney Pacific, but only in runnable condition with all mechanical parts intact (cosmetics could be handled with Precision Scale Parts). Of course, the only reason I’d want a Varney is that it’s an SP prototype. Then again, you can get Westsides fairly reasonable, so why bother?
How can I find your ebay page? I am curious to see it. Also, I recently found an MDC 0-6-0 online, at 13.50 right now. I think I am going to try for it, as it goes off tomorrow. Thanks for all of the info,
TM05/Matthew B.
Just to clarify, I am NOT selling it, but I want as much info on this amazing loco as possible. I wish there was Ancestry for this unit, so I could find who built this thing! I know that doesn't exist, but a man can wish!
Thanks, TM05/Matthew B.
sorry accidental post
Posted video link on picture doc, and here: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1RcTfzwR4Bxf91RTf3L6ML4Wswy5xTDZE/view?usp=sharing
Enjoy! --Trainman05/MatthewB.