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Brass NDa Caboose

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  • Member since
    January, 2017
  • From: Southern Florida Gulf Coast
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Brass NDa Caboose
Posted by SeeYou190 on Sunday, January 06, 2019 7:09 AM

This is mainly for Ed (GMPullman) because he posted a picture of a completed PENNSYLVANIA NDa caboose model in Show Me Something, but maybe other people can help or offer solutions.

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I have two of the Sunset Models brass NDa cabooses.

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Both of them have a problem where the journal of one of the trucks contacts the steps and causes operational concerns. These cabooses have unusual steps that look more like tender steps, and the trucks are very close to the ends of the cars.

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I tried Tichy plastic caboose trucks on one of them, but the journals on the Tichy trucks are just a bit larger, so that made it worse.

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Did you have the same problem, and if so, were you able to fix it?

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On both cabooses it is only on one end. Reversing the floor does not change the end that has the problem, so it must be on the car body.

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The only obvious solutions looks like either removing material from the step, or removing the step and soldering it in a new position.

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Am I missing anything?

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Thank you for any thoughts.

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-Kevin

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Happily modeling the STRATTON & GILLETTE RAILROAD located in a world of plausible nonsense set in August, 1954.

  • Member since
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  • From: Collinwood, Ohio, USA
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Posted by gmpullman on Sunday, January 06, 2019 8:18 AM

SeeYou190
Did you have the same problem, and if so, were you able to fix it?

Hi, Kevin,

My NDA is a Railworks import made by Woosung. I was very fortunate that the wheel to step clearance is good. Actually the first thing the wheel hits is the Kadee draft gear box. Hasn't been a problem on my curves and being such a short wheelbase.

 PRR_NDA1a by Edmund, on Flickr

 PRR_NDA1b by Edmund, on Flickr

I see my steps are in nearly the same location, that is to the outermost location on the frame. I'd hesitate to try to reposition them. I'd probably try several other truck styles first. I'd have to look at some of my PRR references to see if there were any shorter wheelbase trucks used.

 PRR_NDA1c by Edmund, on Flickr

Now, my original plan was to rebuild this into an ND model as a four wheel bobber. Gloor Craft made an ND kit (#314) with die cast journal pedestals. You'd have to epoxy them in place or make a new sub-frame. Might be worth a try?

 PRR_NDA1 by Edmund, on Flickr

Before messing with the steps I'd seriously look at moving the bolster just a tad inboard or cheat and try tapping a new hole in the body bolster.

Hope that was at least a little help,

Good Luck, Ed

 

  • Member since
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  • From: Southern Florida Gulf Coast
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Posted by SeeYou190 on Sunday, January 06, 2019 8:28 AM

Ed, thank you for taking the time to reply.

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I think shortening the wheel base is the best solution. I run Kadee trucks with plastic wheelsets for all my cabooses, and I would like to keep that standard with this one.

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Yours looks like it has a slightly shorter wheelbase than mine does. My journal boxes are right up on the steps, and my outside wheel is about 1/3 under the platform.

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I agree, modifying the floor/frame is a better idea than removing and reattaching a step.

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-Kevin

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Happily modeling the STRATTON & GILLETTE RAILROAD located in a world of plausible nonsense set in August, 1954.

  • Member since
    August, 2003
  • From: Collinwood, Ohio, USA
  • 7,070 posts
Posted by gmpullman on Sunday, January 06, 2019 8:39 AM

SeeYou190
I agree, modifying the floor/frame is a better idea than removing and reattaching a step.

Right Yes  A little more forgiving where it wouldn't be easily seen. Getting the step hot enough to resolder would probably loosen the end railings. Actually a little judicious filing on the offending area might give you just enough clearance, but I'd try a Kadee or Walthers truck first. I've gone with plastic trucks if I can find good replacements on many of my brass rolling stock and even some tenders, too. 

Trying to insulate them, especially passenger cars with skirts, can be very frustrating.

Here's the diagram for the NDa

http://prr.railfan.net/diagrams/PRRdiagrams.html?diag=NDa-.gif&sel=cbn&sz=sm&fr=

You can get a 300dpi look at the dimensions.

Keep trying Smile Ed

  • Member since
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  • From: Nordonia Hills, OH
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Posted by dti406 on Sunday, January 06, 2019 11:35 AM

By the way they are not caboose‘s they are cabin cars. You should know better Ed!

Rick Jesionowski 

Rule 1: This is my railroad.

Rule 2: I make the rules.

Rule 3: Illuminating discussion of prototype history, equipment and operating practices is always welcome, but in the event of visitor-perceived anacronisms, detail descrepancies or operating errors, consult RULE 1!

  • Member since
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  • From: Collinwood, Ohio, USA
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Posted by gmpullman on Sunday, January 06, 2019 11:46 AM

dti406
You should know better Ed!

Embarrassed Guilty as charged! Embarrassed

For my penance I'll have to spend the day riding New York Central cabooses and Santa Fe "Waycars". I've learned my lesson Sad

Regards, Ed 

  • Member since
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  • From: Canada, eh?
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Posted by doctorwayne on Sunday, January 06, 2019 1:21 PM

Walthers had a number of cabooses (plastic) which had a similar problem of the trucks hitting the steps, but on both ends.  While most folks seemed to opt for carving off part of the rear of the steps in order to gain clearance, it was actually easier to remove the car's centresill, then cut it at a suitable point (a quick look would show what would work) then rotate the cut-piece 180° and cement it back in place, re-locating the truck mounting point just a bit farther inboard.

I'd agree with re-locating the offending truck's mounting point, either by physically moving body bolster, or by simply drilling a new hole slightly inboard of the original.  If necessary, plug the original hole by soldering a short length of suitably-sized brass wire into it - that will allow you to drill very close, even partially within the area where that hole was originally, so that the re-located truck doesn't look too far out of position.

gmpullman
For my penance I'll have to spend the day riding New York Central cabooses and Santa Fe "Waycars".

Just be thankful you don't have to spend the day riding in CPR "vans".  I never heard the term until I got into model railroading, and all of those type of cars on my road are called cabooses.  I'm told that "vans" can trace their origin to British "brake vans"....I guess that we Ca-knuckleheads can be thankful that we don't have "goods wagons", too.

Watch-out for the headroom on the Central cupolas, Ed!

Wayne

  • Member since
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  • From: Southern Florida Gulf Coast
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Posted by SeeYou190 on Sunday, January 06, 2019 4:31 PM

Ed was not wrong.

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These models are going to go into service on the STRATTON & GILLETTE, and on SGRR rails, they are cabooses.

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-Kevin

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Happily modeling the STRATTON & GILLETTE RAILROAD located in a world of plausible nonsense set in August, 1954.

  • Member since
    January, 2017
  • From: Southern Florida Gulf Coast
  • 3,568 posts
Posted by SeeYou190 on Tuesday, January 08, 2019 6:16 AM

I decided to take on this project this week that I am spending in my "dorm room" away from home.

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This is what the original unmodified brass NDa caboose model looks like as it comes from Sunset Models.

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I removed the brass underframe to get an idea what would be involved with this project. The coupler mounting screws are part of the underframe, so I decided to modify the existing underframe rather than construct a new one. This is so I would not need to deal with the coupler box mounting screws, the location and construction of these is excellent on this model.

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Removing the soldered on details, which were minimal, and the truck bolsters, which were simple, was just an easy few twists with a good pair of pliers. I was suprised how easily these soldered joints just came apart with very little effort required. Super glued joints are much harder to get to come apart. I cleaned off the remaining solder with a flat file.

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I made new underframe parts out of plastic sheet and strip. There will not be enough room in between the trucks to model any brake detail, so I opted to use a round tank casting to fill the space.

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I moved the bolster locations inward 0.250" on an inch from each end of the underframe. This will shorten the wheelbase by half of an inch! This is going to be one Toonerville looking caboose.

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The brass underframe is 0.035" thick. I chose to dimple to locations of the new screw holes with a #66 drill bit before drilling them out any larger. This helps keep the drill bit on center. I only drilled the dimples about 0.020" deep.

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I then drilled the new clearance holes out to 0.125".

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Then I reamed the holes with a tapered reamer until they were about 3/16" in diameter.

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I super glued the 0.010" thick plastic sheet to the underframe. This will give me a good surface to glue the plastic pieces to. The sheet also has plenty of contact area with the brass undeframe. Then I glued the truck bolsters to the plastic sheet. I used Tichy Train Group bolster parts. I added a plastic spacer to the center of the underframe to mount the tank to. This piece is 0.080" thick, and will make the tank hang down a little lower below the car floor.

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I glued a piece of 0.100" thick plastic to the inside of the underframe. This will be drilled and tapped for the two 2-56 screws that will hold the trucks in place.

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The underframe was test fitted to the car body to be certain there were no points of interference between the new pieces and the car body.

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This side-by-side shows the huge difference between the original truck spacing and the modified spacing.

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This is the side view of the modified caboose. Sorry, but the only trucks I had in my "dorm room" are black, and they did not photograph very well.

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There is the original next to the modified caboose. I love the way it looks, and there is no more interference between the trucks and the steps or coupler boxes.

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Now they need to go to the paint shop and be decorated for the STRATTON AND GILLETTE. Sorry if this project offended any brass collectors or PENNSYLVANIA RAILROAD fans!

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-Kevin

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Happily modeling the STRATTON & GILLETTE RAILROAD located in a world of plausible nonsense set in August, 1954.

  • Member since
    August, 2003
  • From: Collinwood, Ohio, USA
  • 7,070 posts
Posted by gmpullman on Tuesday, January 08, 2019 9:02 AM

A very ambitious and successful modification, Kevin! I probably would have made the inset 1/8" or so but, in for a penny... Your results actually look very nice.

The B&O and I'm sure other roads have done the very same surgery on their old "Hacks".

I know the B&O I-5s had the truck centers moved out when the underframes were beefed up.

Very good tutorial. I like your reamer. I have the very same model. Looking for the next smaller size.

Cheers, Ed

  • Member since
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  • From: Southern Florida Gulf Coast
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Posted by SeeYou190 on Friday, January 11, 2019 6:24 AM

gmpullman
A very ambitious and successful modification, Kevin! I probably would have made the inset 1/8" or so

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Yes. I had a different caboose model on the desk when I made the measurements, and that one had full width steps to the side sills. When I put this one together and saw it had tender style steps and the big gap, I thought" Oh No!", but I already built both floors.

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gmpullman
I like your reamer. I have the very same model. Looking for the next smaller size.

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I found one smaller from a local hardware store, but it turned out to be very poor quality.

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-Kevin

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Happily modeling the STRATTON & GILLETTE RAILROAD located in a world of plausible nonsense set in August, 1954.

  • Member since
    August, 2003
  • From: Collinwood, Ohio, USA
  • 7,070 posts
Posted by gmpullman on Friday, January 11, 2019 6:53 AM

SeeYou190
I found one smaller from a local hardware store, but it turned out to be very poor quality.

Thanks, Kevin.

I'm going to give this one a shot.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003NNZ7MC/ref=crt_ewc_img_dp_1?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER

The 1/8 to 1/2 inch one I have is older than me. Made by Brown & Sharpe.

Caboose, cabin, waycar, vans look good Big Smile

Thanks, again, Ed

  • Member since
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  • From: Northern Virginia
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Posted by riogrande5761 on Friday, January 11, 2019 9:12 AM

NDa?  Non Disclosure agreement? 

Well thats corporate conditioning for you.  Must mean something else.

Rio Grande.  The Action Road

Silly Aspie's, I have NT syndrome

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