Hello,
I'm new here for the first time. I'm not sure if I'm starting in the right place or what.
I would need some help in saying that I don't know really, what I should start off with as a beginner hobby railroader. N or HO scale. ?
I have many questions, but, would like to know if I am in the right category for my questions.
I don't want to start off too fast, don't have too much money. Don't want to make too many mistakes either.
Example question: I would like to start on a 4' x 16' layout and what is the thickness on plywood do i need (the cheapest).
2nd question: If I start a HO 4 by 8 layout, can I expand to 4 by 16 foot layout later on.?
thanks for your input and suggestions,
Jamies
Hi, Jamies and
I would say that, yes, you're in the right place!
If you select the "GET STARTED" menu tab in the M-R banner above you will find many interesting features on basic model railroad construction styles. Once you see what methods are common you can come back here anytime with more questions once you have some basics nailed down.
thebridge88Example question: I would like to start on a 4' x 16' layout and what is the thickness on plywood do i need (the cheapest).
In regards to your table-top question there is an article here:
http://mrr.trains.com/how-to/get-started/2011/11/benchwork-for-your-model-railroad
This is one of the topics in the Get Started section.
thebridge882nd question: If I start a HO 4 by 8 layout, can I expand to 4 by 16 foot layout later on.?
Absolutely! Just keep access in mind. You might want to incorporate a "lift out" section which could be disguised as a hillside or even a city block. When you design your track plan you might have an industrial siding(s) headed toward the table edge with the idea that this could be incorporated as your "future" main line when you decide to expand.
When you do have specific questions regarding the actual construction and tracklaying you can post them in the "Layouts and Layout Building" topic header.
Hope to hear from you soon...
Regards, Ed
thebridge88 Hello, I'm new here for the first time. I'm not sure if I'm starting in the right place or what.
Probably not but we'll take a shot at it anyway!
As a rule, it depends on how much space you have. Many have very limited space so N scale lets you fit more operation and track into the same space that might be used for HO, which is nearly twice the size.
By way of example, your curves in HO will be limited to train set track curves, which are pretty sharp at 18 and 22 inch radius. In HO, you would have to avoid long cars such as 89' auto racks and TOFC flat cars an full length 85' passenger cars. In HO, sharp curves work best for freight cars limited to 60' or less and 4-axle diesels, although most 6-axle diesels will manage to operate on those sharp cuves.
By way of contrast, N scale will allow much broader curves on a 4' wide layout.
2nd question: If I start a HO 4 by 8 layout, can I expand to 4 by 16 foot layout later on? thanks for your input and suggestions, Jamies
Sure.
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
Jamies,
N scale vs HO is a personal preference. HO has much more stuff to pick from but N is getting better every day. I had an HO in the past but I have less space to work with now so I switched to N scale.
No matter what construction choices you make, you will need (prefer) a nice set of hand and shop tools. The article Ed pointed to suggest use of plywood strips in lieu of regular lumber. That will require a power saw of some type to cut the plywood into strips. If you are like me, that is always a good excuse to buy some new power tools. Either way, lots of your choices will be dictated by your willingness or ability to buy, beg or borrow the tools needed.
One last biggie....this will not be your last layout. Over time, you will need or want to make a big change to a bigger/different layout due to a move or something else. Keep this in mind on building this layout. In lieu of making a large PERMANT layout that can never be moved, I suggest you build it in a modular style that would allow you to take it apart and move it later thru a standard doorway. Does not mean it must conform to a NMRA 2ft x4ft module....just that it can be broken down into whatever size pieces work for you.
Welcome aboard and ENJOY!
Paul D
N scale Washita and Santa Fe RailroadSouthern Oklahoma circa late 70's
There is a wealth of knowledge on this forum, and plenty who will offer opinions. I would say keep the first layout simple, use it to learn skills in all areas. Model Railroader has a series of articles on building simple layouts every year, one of those might be a good starting point as they take you through each step. Then, after you build it, you can always improve, add it to a larger layout or start over with all the new skills you have aquired. Have fun.
thebridge88what I should start off with as a beginner hobby railroader. N or HO scale. ?
Oh my, you are a newbie. The advantage of N scale is you can run longer trains in the same physical footprint of your train room. Detail on N scale has caught up to the detail in HO scale. It's not as popular as HO, but not an obscure part of the hobby either. Imagination-wise, I can't make the jump to something that small. I'm an old guy who's parents bought him American Flyer and I made the switch to HO.
You are going to make mistakes. Future expansion might mean a total rebuild.
4x8" gets a lot of play in the magazines. It's the size of piece of plywood, right? so it's easy construction. However it it's against the wall, you can't really reach to the back. It doesn't lend itself to the most interesting track plans and in HO you don't have very big radii for modern equipment or big steam engines.
Newbie mistakes:
Figure out what you want to model, you can't have it all like the Durango type High Line, the city dock, the farm land, the coal mine, the steel mill. Choices have to be made. Many of us model what we knew growing up, but that certainly isn't true for Europeans who model the US.
If you have a trains show near you, or even Christmas gardens, go look at the display layouts and see what scale appeals to you.
Henry
COB Potomac & Northern
Shenandoah Valley
PED ... lots of your choices will be dictated by your willingness or ability to buy, beg or borrow the tools needed.
... lots of your choices will be dictated by your willingness or ability to buy, beg or borrow the tools needed.
Some minimum basic power tools you will be glad you have would be:
- cordless drill/driver
- Jig saw/sabre saw (good for cutting small pieces or curved cuts)
- Circular saw (long straight cuts of plywood)
I built a 10x18' layout (pictured below) with only a cordless drill and sabre saw.
Another very helpful power tool to have (if possible) is a miter saw - speeds up cutting dimensional lumber like legs and frame members.
The above statement is mainly true if you are a "lifer" or a person who is a life long train nut. That being the case if you are truly an addict, then you may built any number of layouts. If it's a passing interest, maybe not.
Assuming the former, keep in mind there is no such thing as a truly permanent layout because layouts, by and large, have a tendency ofgetting torn down move or for some other reason. Layouts lasting decades are probably the exception.
Whether or not you make a "movable" layout such as the type people make to bring to train shows and run, at minimum, design and build a larger layout in a sectional format that will at least facilitate breaking it down should you need to move.
Here are photo's of my "permanent but sectional" layout which had to be broken down after less than four years:
Sectional layout under construction:
Same layout being broken down:
The layout in the above photo's was not meant to be broken down and set up again in another location, but rather designed to be broken down and dismantled without having to take a sledge hammer or sawzaw to it. I have, in fact, saved all the benchwork and wood to re-use, as well as most of the track and other hardware.
Welcome aboard!
I am in HO scale myself, but it's a personal choice. As a senior citizen, I like the size of HO better.
As a new member, you will be "moderated" for a while. Hang in there and you will soon be able to see your posts and reply immediately like the rest of us.
It's a great hobby and you're making a great choice.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
Welcome! You can easily get overwhelmed in this hobby. You have a sound approach in reading and asking questions. Keeping that up can help minimize the over-spending.
Perhaps get over to a local library or hobby shop for some books. I would ready anything from Jeff Wilson. He's a fantastic resource for learning about this hobby without being confused or overwhelmed.
You also can contact the local NMRA group about visiting a layout. There are even more resource available from a local club. You might create a friendship with a mentor who can provide invaluable advice.
Welcome to the railraoding hobby. I don't have the experience of many of the others here but I was where you are a bit over a year ago so here's my take.
1) If you're stiking with 4' wide and you want to run the largest, most modern equpiment, then -for the radius issues mentioned by others- I'd slightly lean toward N.
However, if you're ok with sticking with 50' or so long cars and not running the largest locos, you can have alot of fun with HO on a 4' wide layout. Additionally, it sounds like you are budget-minded and nothing beats the selection of good used and bargain options in HO scale.
2) You can always expand later, though I'd recommend planning for it by laying out your main lines in a way that can easily lead into the next section you want to build.
A couple other ideas.
-If you want HO and want larger curves, continuous running and a budget option, consider a ping-pong table as your base unit. It's 9x5 which will give you room for 27 inch ( even slightly larger if you're willing to run very close to the edge) curves and 24'ish inner curves which will accommodate virtually any equipment you could want to buy. Also, if you check your local craigslist you can usually find them for about $50. Depending on your arm length you may want to cut an access hatch in the middle. I'm currently building my layout on a vintage wood ping-pong table that cost me $50, which is less than the cost of the lumber to build it myself.
-If continuous running isnt' a priority, and you're willing to spend more time on benchwork then the advice you'll likely get to build a narrower-but-longer layout against the walls and in modular sections is very wise.
-A few inches of extruded insulation foam (the stiff pink, green or blue stuff used for insulation) on top of your plywood base will give you the ability to dig down to add rivers, ravines, trenches, etc.
Visit the Chicago Valley Railroad for Chicago Trainspotting and Budget Model Railroading.
If I were starting over now, I'm pretty sure I would go with N scale. 30 years ago I chose HO because it ran very well, I'd say N scale equipment runs at least that well (if not better) now.
If you do decide to try N, one advantage is you can start with a small trial layout. Most 'big box' building supply stores that have plywood and lumber sell plywood in 2' x 4' and 2' x 8' sheets. In N scale, even just a 2' x 4' would allow an oval with 11" radius curves - tight, but OK for most equipment - and a turnout (switch) or two for industry spur tracks. I would recommend looking at easy-to-use "click track" like Kato Unitrack....
http://www.katousa.com/N/Unitrack/g-single.html
I'd also suggest spending your money at the start on one good multi-purpose engine. A good model railroad engine can last decades, so you have to factor the initial investment over the number of years you'll be using it. Better to get one really good engine that a couple of so-so ones.
Picking up a Walthers catalog (the new 2019 one is just coming out) will help you see what all is available for engines, cars, building kits, etc.
https://www.walthers.com/
If I were to start out with N-scale now, I'd be frustrated cause all the stuff I need was produced by Trainworx and Wheels of Time and is long sold out. LOL
Hello all,
to the forums!
Money will be your primary concern closely followed by space.
As has been mentioned N scale will allow you more "train" in the same amount of space than HO.
Looking at the Model Train Stuff web site there is a slight price difference between the two scales. This difference can be up to $50.00 for the same locomotive in different scales.
Yes, you can always expand a 4'x8' layout- -again- -given your potential space.
The main question, and cost, will be the control system- -DC vs. DCC.
When I returned to this great hobby I wrongly assumed that DC would be cheaper.
I wanted to run multiple locomotives on the same pike. In DC that meant 16 separate control blocks, two cabs (throttles), various Atlas control and power routing switches and lots of wire....lots of wire.
Had I gone the DCC route in the first place it only would be slightly more expensive. The reason the cost of DC was close to DCC was all the wire needed. Copper is expensive.
I have a 4'x8' pike and with DCC I needed fewer power districts. The amount of wire I harvested when converting to DCC could have easily gone to pay half the cost of a DCC system.
It has been said, "With DC you control the track, in DCC you control the locomotive.”
Good luck an keep the questions coming!
Hope this helps.
"Uhh...I didn’t know it was 'impossible' I just made it work...sorry"
HO scale or N scale is the million dollar question. Both have their advantages and disadvantages. You have to decide for yourself which is right for you. I personally like HO scale better because of the detail parts available for creating the whole world. If you want to build model structures and fill the interiors with details then HO is a better choice. If you are more interested in running trains instead of building models then N scale is a better choice.
I forgot to mention the National Model Railroad Association.
Check out the NMRA website.
Under the "Education" tab you will find the "Beginner's Guide".
Lots of great info from an organization worth supporting.
jjdamnitLooking at the Model Train Stuff web site there is a slight price difference between the two scales. This difference can be up to $50.00 for the same locomotive in different scales.
hmmmm....I never considered that. I looked at SD70's, F7's and N scale were more, GP39 about the same, couldn't find a GP-7 or 9 in N-scale. MTS doesn't have any N-scale sound RS-3's either. That's a function of their business model, but availability and price to count. I'm still firmly in the HO corner.
Think about what it is that attracts you to the hobby; what you will do with your layout (and what you want it to do for you). Are you interested in recreating specific prototype trains, scenes, and operations? Are you fascinated by the idea of a magical little fantasy world full of action, lights, whimsy, etc? Have you been bitten by the Rocky Mountain Narrow Gauge bug? Are you interested in switching puzzles or do you just want to watch trains running around through a landscape? All of these things will affect your choices.
For example, if you want to model the current or recent modern era in a limited space, I'd suggest N, because most of the equipment is now so long that it won't look good on the tight curves you'd need in HO. For narrow gauge, HO seems to be as small as most people go, and HO might also be better for switching since most people would probably find it easier to couple/uncouple the cars. If you want to model a specific prototype and era - say the Chicago Great Western in Iowa in the '50s - then look at what's available for that in each scale.
I disagree that details in N have caught up to HO, but both scales have reached the point where the detail is good enough, if not even better than necessary, relative to the size of the models. I personally prefer the look of HO because to me, N scale trains always look so far away from most normal viewing angles - but N definitely gives you more options in a small space, and is great for recreating scenes where you want big sweeping landscapes to "overwhelm" the trains (like the Canadian Canyon layout currently featured in MR).
Well, I guess since you have read all of this you know everything about model railroading; this forum is a great place to hang on too for good info, suggestions, help, and pictures by some really good modelers.
Three things I would consider, one, it's really nice if you have a local model railroad store. In Columbia, SC we have one of the best in the nation and a very knowledgable staff, with just about everything produced for the hobby. If you have questions that's the place to go and see the different guages and handle some of the equipment to see what you like. Usually the owner can answer just about any question you have.
Secondly, is there a local Model Railroad Club. There you will find people such as yourself, just starting out to older guys like me that have been in the hobby for 60 years or more. They have advise, you can learn and run trains and get some really good ideas about what you may want to do.
The internet is a great place for forums but you may also want to subscribe to some of the hobby press, there are magazines out there that really can give you a good foundation about the hobby with all sorts of articles not only for beginners but the experienced as well.
Many of use started out the same way, a Lionel Train under the Christmas tree and it went from there. I recieved my first Lionel in 1952 and that started the ball rolling, and I can tell you we have come a long since that little frieght steam engine was discovered under a Christmas tree. I am into HO, lots of stuff available, but that steam engine and the four or five frieght cars still rolls today, under the tree every Christmas.
Robert Sylvester
Newberry-Columbia Line, SC.