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Curiosity question--lead warning in Walthers flyer Locked

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Posted by ATLANTIC CENTRAL on Monday, October 22, 2018 7:59 PM

rrebell

 

 
ATLANTIC CENTRAL

 

 
cuyama

This thread is full of misinformation and has nearly nothing to do with trains.

 

 

 

Well, that may be true, but based on what I know to be fact, I'm glad I don't live or work in California.

Tomorrow, I will be doing restoration work on leaded glass sidelites and transom on a house built in 1863. No hazmat suit, no respirator, no latex gloves, oh my!

Sheldon

 

 

 

Repaired leaded windows and tore out old furnaces covered in aspestos, no nothing and sanded lead paint too.

 

 

We don't sand lead paint, we remove it with a heat gun, then we do a little sanding......

Sheldon

    

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Posted by rrinker on Monday, October 22, 2018 8:01 PM

 The most dangerous chemical we use on our model railroads is dihydrogen monoxide. This dangerous chemical leads to the eventual death of 100% of those who consume it. It erodes landscape and accelerates corrosion of many metals. It can cause electrical problems and even lead to electrocution if used around power lines.

 Keep yourself safe when modeling. Know the dangers of dihydrogen monoxide. It can show up anywhere - in everyday items like soaps and shampoos, and even the food we eat and beverages we drink.

 

* this chemical is known to the state of California to cause cancer.

                                   --Randy

 


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Posted by richg1998 on Monday, October 22, 2018 9:50 PM

Some years ago I ordered castings from Bitter Creek, a supplier of 1900 era parts and they warned about lead in some of their castings and still do warn on their page. Sometimes, you have to shave a little off the parts.

Rich

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Posted by tstage on Monday, October 22, 2018 10:08 PM

As Randy iterated earlier - as long as you don't ingest it or lick it, you'll be fine.  Common sense.

I'm actually more concerned about the dihydrogen monoxide he mentioned in his most recent post than lead...Angel]

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Posted by gmpullman on Monday, October 22, 2018 10:25 PM

tstage
Common sense.

Common sense!  YesYes

One of the reasons for the warnings is simply about awareness.

I began working in the heavy metals industry in the late 1970s. I worked with thoriated tungsten, cobalt, asbestos, mercury, carbon tetrachloride, PCBs among other materials and I know that there were very few "warnings" about the hazards of working with this stuff.

I would cut "Transite" asbestos sheeting on a band saw and blow off the dust with an air gun. Dust mask? No one ever told me there was any hazard until some years later when more environment safety was being pushed in industry.

Fortunately, we're a little more aware today.

Another point about the warnings isn't so much about what you do with the material while you have it but rather where it ends up when you dispose of it.

Think of all the toy soldiers, batteries, die-cast Varney and Mantua stuff ending up in land-fills. Eventually that metal leeches into the water table. If — through a little effort — we can re-use this metal or at least collect it for proper disposal it would help everyone.

Cheers, Ed

 

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Posted by Doughless on Tuesday, October 23, 2018 6:16 AM

If there is going to be disclosures, it would be helpful if they were specific towards the substance and how not to use it.  

In what way do the Bachmann locos possibly cause cancer?  Simply by holding them?

I guess the law really isn't designed to inform the consumer more so than just trying to drive out privately owned businesses it would seem, because with those generic labels the only way to avoid the problem is to not buy the product in the first place.

- Douglas

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Posted by rrebell on Tuesday, October 23, 2018 7:23 AM

ATLANTIC CENTRAL

 

 
rrebell

 

 
ATLANTIC CENTRAL

 

 
cuyama

This thread is full of misinformation and has nearly nothing to do with trains.

 

 

 

Well, that may be true, but based on what I know to be fact, I'm glad I don't live or work in California.

Tomorrow, I will be doing restoration work on leaded glass sidelites and transom on a house built in 1863. No hazmat suit, no respirator, no latex gloves, oh my!

Sheldon

 

 

 

Repaired leaded windows and tore out old furnaces covered in aspestos, no nothing and sanded lead paint too.

 

 

 

 

We don't sand lead paint, we remove it with a heat gun, then we do a little sanding......

Sheldon

 

In the 70's we used to take mouldings that were basicaly flat boards with flutes in them and sand of the top exposining the wood and leaving the paint in the groves, then we urathaned them, you must have run accross some of this being the area you live and we worked in Maryland. We renovated not restored (except our own abode in some cases).

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Posted by rrebell on Tuesday, October 23, 2018 7:29 AM

rrinker

 The most dangerous chemical we use on our model railroads is dihydrogen monoxide. This dangerous chemical leads to the eventual death of 100% of those who consume it. It erodes landscape and accelerates corrosion of many metals. It can cause electrical problems and even lead to electrocution if used around power lines.

 Keep yourself safe when modeling. Know the dangers of dihydrogen monoxide. It can show up anywhere - in everyday items like soaps and shampoos, and even the food we eat and beverages we drink.

 

* this chemical is known to the state of California to cause cancer.

                                   --Randy

 

 

Cute, had to look that one up. Remember not too long ago here in the SF bay area a local radio station had a water drinking contest and a person died, major lawsuits.

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Posted by ROBERT PETRICK on Tuesday, October 23, 2018 7:51 AM

rrebell
rrinker

 The most dangerous chemical we use on our model railroads is dihydrogen monoxide. This dangerous chemical leads to the eventual death of 100% of those who consume it. It erodes landscape and accelerates corrosion of many metals. It can cause electrical problems and even lead to electrocution if used around power lines.

 Keep yourself safe when modeling. Know the dangers of dihydrogen monoxide. It can show up anywhere - in everyday items like soaps and shampoos, and even the food we eat and beverages we drink.

 

* this chemical is known to the state of California to cause cancer.

                                   --Randy

 

Cute, had to look that one up. Remember not too long ago here in the SF bay area a local radio station had a water drinking contest and a person died, major lawsuits.

That particular chemical compound is also known as hydrogen hydroxide and has been proven to cause drowning in laboratory rats.

LINK to SNSR Blog


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Posted by IRONROOSTER on Tuesday, October 23, 2018 7:55 AM

Doughless

If there is going to be disclosures, it would be helpful if they were specific towards the substance and how not to use it.  

In what way do the Bachmann locos possibly cause cancer?  Simply by holding them?

I guess the law really isn't designed to inform the consumer more so than just trying to drive out privately owned businesses it would seem, because with those generic labels the only way to avoid the problem is to not buy the product in the first place.

 

I agree that a list would be helpful.  And it's unfortunate that there's no prohibition against using the warning label when there aren't any problems.

But too many companies don't act responsibly, so laws like this one are needed.  And imperfect as it is, it has helped.

Personally, I try to avoid things like harmful substances like lead.  Will it lengthen my life span?  who knows, but it won't hurt.  And unlike video games, I can't reload if I screw up and lose this life.Laugh

Paul

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Posted by Doughless on Tuesday, October 23, 2018 8:19 AM

IRONROOSTER

 

 
Doughless

If there is going to be disclosures, it would be helpful if they were specific towards the substance and how not to use it.  

In what way do the Bachmann locos possibly cause cancer?  Simply by holding them?

I guess the law really isn't designed to inform the consumer more so than just trying to drive out privately owned businesses it would seem, because with those generic labels the only way to avoid the problem is to not buy the product in the first place.

 

 

 

I agree that a list would be helpful.  And it's unfortunate that there's no prohibition against using the warning label when there aren't any problems.

But too many companies don't act responsibly, so laws like this one are needed.  And imperfect as it is, it has helped.

Personally, I try to avoid things like harmful substances like lead.  Will it lengthen my life span?  who knows, but it won't hurt.  And unlike video games, I can't reload if I screw up and lose this life.Laugh

Paul

 

Whenever I solder, I try to do common sense things like not having that little stream of smoke enter my nose.

But using rubber gloves or something when handling it is overkill, not to mention the gloves are probably cheap latex. 

- Douglas

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Posted by NeO6874 on Tuesday, October 23, 2018 8:32 AM

Doughless

Whenever I solder, I try to do common sense things like not having that little stream of smoke enter my nose.

 

Filter it through a cigarette, you'll be fine :)

-Dan

Builder of Bowser steam! Railimages Site

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Posted by 7j43k on Tuesday, October 23, 2018 10:35 AM

Regarding soldering, it appears the most dangerous thing would be the smoke (see above) from the flux.

As for the lead evaporating, it is a non-problem:

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?121103-Lead-Fumes-let-s-settle-this

I admit I only read the first page.  Note that they are talking about casting with a much different alloy than solder.  Their melt temperatures are up into 1000F, while solder is more like 600F.

I see no lead threat from evaporation during typical model railroad soldering.

 

Ed

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Posted by P&Slocal on Tuesday, October 23, 2018 11:29 AM

I'm baffled at the fact that wood dust (saw dust) is a chemical. I always thought it was a solid particulate.

Robert H. Shilling II

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Posted by rrinker on Tuesday, October 23, 2018 1:50 PM

 I guess that depends on what you are cutting. If it's plywood or some other manufactured product you most likely are releasing chemical compounds from the glues used as well as the particulate matter. Neither of which is probably not too healthy to breathe in. Which is why a dust mask is probably a good idea when doing a lot of cutting.

 There's a big difference between working with many of these things as a daily job, 40+ hours a week for umpteen years, vs the casual hobbyist doing a little soldering now and then, or a little wood cutting now and then. Huge difference in the amount of exposure to anything potentially hazardous.

 I don;t wear gloves when soldering. I also don;t lick my fingers afterwards or eat finger food without washing up first. Again, common sense precaustions. It's bad when toys targets at babies have lead paint - no matter how carefully you watch them, a baby WILL put things in their mouth. So no problem with banning such things. But an adult ought to know better than to eat solder. The fumes, as noted, are from the flux, not lead.

                                      --Randy

 


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

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Posted by xboxtravis7992 on Tuesday, October 23, 2018 5:03 PM

Its pretty clear at this point that 50% of our hobby (either model trains or real 1:1 scale trains moreso...) involves exposure to lead, asbestos, and exhaust fumes. Kind of comes with the territoryStick out tongue 

But there is no reason to worry about it as long as proper safety efforts are taken. Just as how proper asbestos abatement in a park display engine is important for safety and preservation; its the same with our model trains. Don't eat the lead, wear a respirator if your cutting it in some way that kicks up a lot of lead shavings, wash your hands afterwards, when possible use lead-free solder, etc. 

Random trivia, most of the lead in the USA is recycled; over 95% of it. Part of the reason we don't have primary lead smelters anymore other than the environmental impact, is the fact its impossible to compete in a market were 95% of the competition is coming from recycled materials. Doe Run in Missouri was the last primary lead smelter to operate in the USA before its closure. 

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Posted by tstage on Tuesday, October 23, 2018 5:17 PM

xboxtravis7992
wear a respirator if your cutting it in some way that kicks up a lot of lead shavings

??? Tongue Tied ???  Unless you are sanding it, cutting lead isn't going to expose you to any danger.  You either have to ingest it or inhale it.  I agree with you that washing your hands afterward is a good idea.

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Posted by BigDaddy on Tuesday, October 23, 2018 5:23 PM

Abestos?  I didn't know my Bachmann's spectrum locos had asbestos. 

Actually I remember an old thread about early MR articles where asbestos was a recommended product.  Can't remember exactly what for, but it's more likely I have radon downstairs than asbestos.

 

Henry

COB Potomac & Northern

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Posted by gmpullman on Tuesday, October 23, 2018 6:01 PM

BigDaddy
Actually I remember an old thread about early MR articles where asbestos was a recommended product.

It made great mountain scenery and tunnels Indifferent

Cheers! Ed

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Posted by joe323 on Tuesday, October 23, 2018 6:49 PM

Andy Rooney of 60 minutes,  fame once said that babies should be tattooed with ”Warning! Life is dangerous to your health.”

Joe Staten Island West 

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