Problems, frustration - Help!

[Anonymous]

Where do I begin? Over the holidays I dug up my 20 year old N-scale set that has been sitting in the basement untouched. Since my 3 year loves trains, I figured, why not? He loved it so much and can even operate the locomotive. So over the weekend I ran out and bought $50 worth of Atlas Code 80 tracks and built a moderately simple layout (3 crossings, 2 switches) that I found on the web. Size is 2' x4 '.

Well, tonight I tried the set up and I was frustrated every step of the way. I was wondering if you guys can help.

General Info:
If my memory serves me the set was made by AHM (now defunct) and cost me a whole $22! The engine is a GP-40 type, 4 axles with the rear truck as power pickup and front truck as traction. It also came with 6 rolling stocks and a power transfer that's slight bigger than a pack of cigarette. Only throttle and direction. The engine is made in Italy by Lima. I also have 5 assorted Atlas rolling stock (all made in Austria by the way).

Problem 1:
The engine stutters along the tracks as if it was too light and had intermittent contact. This happens regardless whether I'm on a curve (mix of 9-3/4" and 11") or a straight away. As I add more stock, it seems to settle down but still stutters somewhat. The tracks and wheels are clean.

Problem 2:
I added all 11 cars to the engine and ran it at medium speed. After about 5 minutes the whole setup started to gradually slow down. Soon I reached the max of the throttle. I stopped the train and picked up the engine. It was quite warm and had a funny "heat" smell to it - not burnt smell. I thought I fried the motor. After letting it cool down, I dropped it on the tracks and it worked again at full speed. I checked all rolling stocks for wheel and couple binding. None found, everything spinned and moved freely.

Questions
I'm assuming that the engine is a cheap one. Will a more expensive Atlas, Life Like, Athearn, etc. with a price tag of around $70 solve these problems? Are the more expensive engines designed better to prevent intermittent contact and have a motor that can take the strain? Is 11 cars unreasonable for N-scale? I can't believe I only have 5 minutes of run time before it over heats.

I was going to run out and get a Tech 4 260 to replace the brick power supply. Could my current supply be the cause of overheating of the engine due to unclean, unregulated power? Maybe the engine wants more power and the PS couldn't supply it?

Problem 3:
I realized the power pack is junk but I was trying to run it slow. At the 30 deg. crossing it would stop since the rear truck (power pickup) just happened to be the right length to match the two dead spots on the crossing. Obviously if I run it fast the momentum would take it over the dead spots.

Question:
Am I reduced to running the set at moderately fast to fast speed? Would a 6-axle be better since the power pickup wheels can span over the dead spots? Should I look for engines with "all wheel drive"? Since the GP-40 is relatively short, would a longer model (e.g., SD60) solve this problem?

Obviously a Tech 4 260 plus a decent loco would run me $125 or so and I wanted to make sure that these two items will solve my problems. My 3 year loves it so much that I would hate to abandon the whole idea due to these issues. It's amazing how much we bonded in just this past weekend. Every time I come home from work, his first words are "Daddy, let's play with the train."

Please help, any advice is appreciated!!! I'm not new to the hobby it's just that I realize a lot has changed in 20 years!

Thanks all!!!!!!

[Texas Zepher]

QUOTE: Originally posted by mktrains
If my memory serves me the set was made by AHM (now defunct) and cost me a whole $22! The engine is a GP-40 type, 4 axles with the rear truck as power pickup and front truck as traction. The engine is made in Italy by Lima.

Problem 1:
The engine stutters along the tracks as if it was too light and had intermittent contact. This happens regardless whether I'm on a curve (mix of 9-3/4" and 11") or a straight away. As I add more stock, it seems to settle down but still stutters somewhat.

I don't believe you are going to solve this problem. I used to own some of these locomotives. I got like 6 of them really cheap somewhere. I tried everything to make them run and nothing worked. I finally hooked two of them permanently together, I ran two wires between them so that both locomotives were sharing electricity. This doubled the power pickup and they didn't stutter the same so at least one motor was usually trying to run. While this helped they still didn't run well enough for me to keep. I hope I didn't sell them to someone.

QUOTE:
Problem 2:
I added all 11 cars to the engine and ran it at medium speed. After about 5 minutes the whole setup started to gradually slow down. Soon I reached the max of the throttle. I stopped the train and picked up the engine. It was quite warm and had a funny "heat" smell to it - not burnt smell. I thought I fried the motor. After letting it cool down, I dropped it on the tracks and it worked again at full speed. I checked all rolling stocks for wheel and couple binding. None found, everything spinned and moved freely.

These locomotives have traction tires. That is the wheels will grip rather than slipping even when the engine is being overworked. This makes the motor over heat. As it gets hotter the electricity flows less freely and hence the slowing factor. It could also be that the wires in the motor were insulated with some sort of shellac that has deteriorated through the years. If so there could be shorts in it, which would expain the loss of power and heat.

QUOTE:
I'm assuming that the engine is a cheap one. Will a more expensive Atlas, Life Like, Athearn, etc. with a price tag of around $70 solve these problems? Are the more expensive engines designed better to prevent intermittent contact and have a motor that can take the strain? Is 11 cars unreasonable for N-scale? I can't believe I only have 5 minutes of run time before it over heats.

Assumption correct. I am not familiar with today's N scale locomotives having switched back to HO in 1983, BUT even the other brands, even Bachmann, from way back would have solved those problems. I had Atlas, Bachmann, and MRC locomotives that at their worse were better than the AHM at its best. N-scale is known for its long trains. 11 cars is very reasonable. I had an Atlas SD45 (vintage 1974) that pulled a train such that the caboose was about 2" in front of the locomotive on a 2x8 layout. I would think that you could get a fairly nice locomotive for less than $70 bucks. I see ads in this months MR for a Kato F3 and various Atlas GPs for $55. You might also want to check around for someplace to find some used equipment (or if nothing else e-bay).
http://www.trainworld1.com/pdfs/nscale1_05_2004.pdf
Of course this is also one reason I left N-scale. Cost. I can purchase approximately the same models in HO scale for less.

QUOTE:
I was going to run out and get a Tech 4 260 to replace the brick power supply. Could my current supply be the cause of overheating of the engine due to unclean, unregulated power? Maybe the engine wants more power and the PS couldn't supply it?

I don't think so. Overheating is usually from pulling too much power. A Tech might help but see all previous comments on that particular locomotive. I believe you are fighting a loosing battle.

QUOTE:
Am I reduced to running the set at moderately fast to fast speed? Would a 6-axle be better since the power pickup wheels can span over the dead spots? Should I look for engines with "all wheel drive"? Since the GP-40 is relatively short, would a longer model (e.g., SD60) solve this problem?

It depends on how the manufacturer wired it. Some locomotives only pick up power from a few wheels, others from all. I even had an Atlas E8 that picked up only from two track sliders. "All wheel drive" isn't going to solve the dead spot problem, that is a pulling issue. You need "all wheel power pick up". BUT, Once again, I think almost ANY other locomotive (other than an exact replacement) will solve the problems.

QUOTE:
Obviously a Tech 4 260 plus a decent loco would run me $125 or so and I wanted to make sure that these two items will solve my problems.

If your trackwork is anywhere close to being good, I can almost guarantee that the combination of those two things will solve the problem. Like I said before I haven't purchase a new n-scale locomotive in 20 years, but if their technology has kept up with HO you will be amazed at the difference.

I would recommend you try another locomotive first, and only if it doesn't work then go for the new power supply. Mind you I love MRC power supplies and highly recommend them, but if you're trying to get by on as little cost as possible, go for the new loco first.

[Jetrock]

Problem 1: Your track may look clean, but did you clean it? Nickel-silver track can look okay but have oxidation on it--so can your wheels. If you don't have a Bright Boy you can use a rubber eraser to give your track an impromptu cleaning. If your track was stored for 20 years it may be heavily oxidized even if it's not really discolored or gunky.

Problem 2: Another factor in letting a locomotive sit for 20 years is that it is probably in desperate need of lubrication. A couple drops of Labelle plastic-safe oil on the gears is all it needs--let it run for a while and things should ease up. The motor is probably working up a storm trying to turn unlubricated gears (or coated in gluey old grease), and thus getting too hot.

A more expensive locomotive would probably run better, yes. 11 cars is not unrealistic for N scale--a good N setup should be able to pull a couple of dozen cars without too much stress, as long as your trackwork is good.

About the powerpack: Tiny trainset powerpacks tend to have really abysmal speed control. Buying a better controller will give finer control of speed, provide pulse power to aid slow-speed operation, and otherwise get things running better. Even an expensive locomotive still runs like a toy train if powered with a cheap powerpack.

Problem 3: That's the cheap engine getting you. A good-quality engine should have all-wheel power pickup and all-wheel drive.

[Anonymous]

Texas Zepher,
THANK YOU (x10)!!!! Thank you for the time to write all that up. Certainly you have added to my thinking that it's the cheapie loco. Funny you had 6 of them at one time! My loco's front truch wheels have clear rubber rings for traction just as you described so there's no slipping. I kept thinking all last night that it was me but there was nothing that I could find, even opening up the loco, that would explain the symptoms. I'm going to take your advice and get a newer and better loco first. You watch, I'll probably end up coming home with the power supply too! :) My son will enjoy this!

Jetrock,
I did not use any of the old tracks sitting in the basement. They were the original AHM ones and didn't quite look like the Atlas ones. The rails seem to be thicker. My current layout is all new tracks from the LHS. No, I didn't clean them but I doubt they are sitting in the LHS for that long. It's good to know that 11 cars is not unreasonable. LHS here I come! My wallet thanks you! :)

[egmurphy]

One possible low-cost suggestion on a replacement power pack would be to consider looking for a used MRC pack on ebay. I picked up a couple of used MRC Tech II packs (one 1300 and one 1500) a year or so ago. If I recall correctly they were about $15-20. Either would be a big improvement over what you have without breaking the bank.

A decent loco should be able to run for hours without overheating.

Regards

Ed