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Proto Throttle worth the coin for novice ?

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Posted by fmilhaupt on Saturday, August 25, 2018 11:33 PM

SeeYou190

I think if I was building a small switching layout with only a first generation EMD diesel for motive power, like Model Railroader's Tar Branch project layout, this would be ideal. It really looks like the control stand from an early diesel.

That describes my use case for it, pretty nicely.

Shortly after the National Train Show opened at KC, I stopped at the Spring Creek Model Trains booth and played with the ProtoThrottle for about five minutes.

Based on the couple of times that I actually had my hand on a real diesel's throttle, it just felt right, so I bought one.

Some things that one needs to know when considering buying one:

  • This is not something that's a good starting-out point for a beginner. There are too many aspects of this that can turn into rabbit holes. If you are not comfortable with decoder programming, this is not for you. At least not yet.
  • The throttle is very dependent upon working with decoders that support a certain set of functions, particularly having separate brake control. For this reason, Soundtraxx, LokSound and WOWSound decoders are really the ones that work best with the ProtoThrottle, and as far as I'm concerned are the only ones worth considering if you are going to use the ProtoThrottle.

  • If you are going to use it with more than one locomotive, it really helps if you only use one brand of decoder. The ProtoThrottle can be configured to support a number of different function mappings for different decoders, but compared to the simplicity of having a uniform set of functions defined across one's fleet, it is a hassle to do that. This helped push me to deciding upon LokSound and LokPilot decoders as my new personal standard, going forward.

  • There is going to be some amount of decoder programming required to make a locomotive work effectively with the ProtoThrottle. The most obvious bits are setting up acceleration and decelration rates to provide a goodly amount of momentum. And if you want the independent control of the front and rear headlights, that may require rewiring some locomotives to put the lights on separate functions.

  • The layout of the ProtoThrottle is a good match for a "pre-desktop control" EMD locomotive, and not so much for others.

I like the ProtoThrottle. Mine worked well right out of the box, adding it to an existing Digitrax setup, but I'd done some reading and already knew that it works best to put the throttle receiver board a few feet away from my LNWI receiver, and not right up against it. This saved me from making one common mistake.

The biggest part of why I bought it was to nudge me towards getting my switching layout up and running. Since most of my switchers are Kato NW2s, the decoder installations will be time-consuming projects involving considerable use of a band saw, so I may as well start now.

-Fritz Milhaupt, Publications Editor, Pere Marquette Historical Society, Inc.
http://www.pmhistsoc.org

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Posted by Bayfield Transfer Railway on Saturday, August 25, 2018 11:42 PM

I had a chance to use one at TrainFest.

I thought it was fantastic.  It's a bit beyond my budget, but if I could, I'd get a batch of them.

I am a serious operations fan, and like to "zoom in" on the role of individual crewmen.  If you hate the ideas of track switches with locks, or derails that have to be unlocked and cleared, you'd probably hate this.  If you like that sort of thing, you'd love this.

But not for a novice, I think.

 

Disclaimer:  This post may contain humor, sarcasm, and/or flatulence.

Michael Mornard

Bringing the North Woods to South Dakota!

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Posted by mlehman on Sunday, August 26, 2018 1:48 AM

I like it, just on general principles and appearance. The price isn't THAT much in an era of $300 locos, although I'm not in position to run out and get one. I'd certainly test drive one if I got a chance.

Mike Lehman

Urbana, IL

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Posted by Doughless on Sunday, August 26, 2018 9:16 AM

While this particular throttle is too pricey for me and tries to be authentic over ergonomic, IMO, I like the idea of different functions having differently shaped knobs.

The problem with DCC throttles is that all of the F buttons are the same, requiring some memorization and difficulty to operate just by feel.  Having things like the directional controls, headlights, bell, horn or whistle knobs different from each other would be progress.

 

- Douglas

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Posted by riogrande5761 on Monday, August 27, 2018 9:35 AM

rrinker

 It clearly isn't for everyone, but this interests me a whole lot more than some fancy touch screen LCD device. With no layout currently, I'm not going to buy one tomorrow, but I do want to get one eventually.

                                    --Randy 

Agreed, and judging by some people laughing and scoffing at this cool throttle, it appears to be a case of "pearls before ... " in some cases. 

I don't care for a touch screen device, especially for critical controls like speed.

The very bad thing about using a smart phone with an app is you have to take your eye's off the train to see where you should position your finger to the right spot on the screen to control speed or whatever.  It's too easy to make false moves using touch screens - I know this from other experiences on my smart phone.

Same as you, since I tore down my last layout a year ago and won't have one for some months, I will hold off until later; I also want to get one eventually.

 

Rio Grande.  The Action Road  - Focus 1977-1983

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Posted by riogrande5761 on Thursday, August 30, 2018 6:16 AM

bearman

I can think of other things to spend 600$ on. I am not hung up on prototypical diesel cab operation.

ISE's website lists the Proto Throttle for $482, not 600.

Rio Grande.  The Action Road  - Focus 1977-1983

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Posted by rrinker on Thursday, August 30, 2018 7:01 AM

 Plus another $100 for the receiver. One for NCE/Lenz and another one for basically anything else with a wifi option (Digitrax, MRC, etc).

                                    --Randy

 


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

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Posted by riogrande5761 on Thursday, August 30, 2018 9:38 AM

rrinker

 Plus another $100 for the receiver. One for NCE/Lenz and another one for basically anything else with a wifi option (Digitrax, MRC, etc).

                                    --Randy

 

Thanks, details matter.  When people throw out a number with no explanation, it can be misleading.  For other DCC systems, people usually quote just the throttle price because they may not need a receiver if they are operating at a club or are buying a 2nd throttle etc.

Anyway, for all the naysayers, ISE is sold out of the Proto Throttles so it looks like people are voting with their wallets and they are definitely serving a clientel.

Rio Grande.  The Action Road  - Focus 1977-1983

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Posted by rrinker on Thursday, August 30, 2018 2:02 PM

I think that's the second sellout, too. I really do want one, but it's utterly useless to run back and forth on a piece of flex track clip leaded to my DCC system. I need a magic wand to wave that turns my mess of a basement into a nicely finished space with properly insulated walls and nice clean ceiling tiles to repalce the ugly paneling with no insulation and the dirty (and half removed - I got started, at least) ceiling tiles. 

                          --Randy

 


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

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Posted by riogrande5761 on Thursday, August 30, 2018 2:15 PM

rrinker

I think that's the second sellout, too. I really do want one, but it's utterly useless to run back and forth on a piece of flex track clip leaded to my DCC system. I need a magic wand to wave that turns my mess of a basement into a nicely finished space with properly insulated walls and nice clean ceiling tiles to repalce the ugly paneling with no insulation and the dirty (and half removed - I got started, at least) ceiling tiles. 

                         -- Randy

Same here.  It looks like they are expected to be restocked around November.

I'm in a similar situation - basement needs finished before layout starts going up.  I'm hoping to get the wall outlets done mid-late Sept and then get someone in to put in the drywall in Oct.  Planning on a drop ceiling with square LED ceiling lights.

I was lucky in my last home, I had a finished basement room there and all I needed was to patch the wall in some places and paint the wall sky blue.

Probably be mid to late next year before I'm thinking about getting one of those Throttles.

Rio Grande.  The Action Road  - Focus 1977-1983

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Posted by rrinker on Thursday, August 30, 2018 5:38 PM

 See I WISH my basement looked like that, my problem is the basement IS finished - but horribly. Ugly stone and brick pattern paneling over 2x3's with no insulation, a disgustingly dirty carpet, and some equally digsustingly dirty ceiling tiles. So first I have to rip it all out, to make it look like yours, THEN add proper drywall walls. Complicating matters is that it does have heat, so i have to have that capped off and removed (to put back in on the new walls). Further complicating things is all the stuff i have down there even AFTER hauling away 2 truckoads of junk. One of these days it will get there.

                                    --Randy


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

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Posted by Doughless on Thursday, August 30, 2018 7:19 PM

riogrande5761

 

 
rrinker

 Plus another $100 for the receiver. One for NCE/Lenz and another one for basically anything else with a wifi option (Digitrax, MRC, etc).

                                    --Randy

 

 

Thanks, details matter.  When people throw out a number with no explanation, it can be misleading.  For other DCC systems, people usually quote just the throttle price because they may not need a receiver if they are operating at a club or are buying a 2nd throttle etc.

Anyway, for all the naysayers, ISE is sold out of the Proto Throttles so it looks like people are voting with their wallets and they are definitely serving a clientel.

 

 

At this point, all 10 that they made, probably.

 

- Douglas

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Posted by rrinker on Thursday, August 30, 2018 7:40 PM

 Not sure if trying to be funny? There's a thread on MRH forums from an op session at a layout where they have like 5 users all with Proto Throttles.

  Watch some of the videos - at least those from someone who's used it more than 10 seconds. It's pretty awesome.

                                      --Randy

 


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

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Posted by Doughless on Thursday, August 30, 2018 8:46 PM

Sort of funny, but a point buried in there too.  Selling out of something doesn't mean its popular or even succesful.  It simply means they sold all that they made.

I don't know what the market is for something like that.  Out of the universe of model railroaders, I don't know how many are serious enough in the hobby to buy a $500 authentic throttle. 

If its enough to make the producer money, great.  But I wouldn't think of it in the same light as a hobby shop selling out of Irv Athearn's 40 foot boxcars back in the day.

- Douglas

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Posted by riogrande5761 on Thursday, August 30, 2018 8:56 PM

Dougless.  I can't take you seriously after that last post.  /Done here.

Rio Grande.  The Action Road  - Focus 1977-1983

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Posted by Doughless on Thursday, August 30, 2018 9:02 PM

I understand.  Its true. I'm much less of a serious modeler than folks in clubs and over on MRH. 

I'm also not a serious enough railfan to spend a lot of money having a 1:1 caboose hauled to my back yard.   

- Douglas

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Posted by rrinker on Thursday, August 30, 2018 10:25 PM

 To take a note froom old MRC ads - a new locomotive can improve one train, a new throttle can improve ALL your trains. There seem to be enough people willing to pay $500 for a sound/dcc loco, so I don;t see the big deal about the throttle costing $500, especially when it adds a whole new dimension to operating ALL of your locos.

 Then again, the whole thing is open source hardware/open source software, so you could go ahead and try to make your own for less.

 An NCE ProCab with radio has an MSRP of $250, a Digitrax DT500D radio throttle is $254. So the ProtoThrottle is 'only' the cost of 2 ordinary throttles. If you don;t already have radio, that's $250 for the ProCab plus another $160 for the RB02. Now we're getting closer. With Digitrax, it's $254 for the throttle plus $160 for the UR92. 

                                      --Randy


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

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Posted by jeffhergert on Thursday, August 30, 2018 10:54 PM

SeeYou190

I think if I was building a small switching layout with only a first generation EMD diesel for motive power, like Model Railroader's Tar Branch project layout, this would be ideal. It really looks like the control stand from an early diesel.

.

 

 

It's actually closer to a second generation control stand.  One that's been upgraded for controlling ditch lights.  Change the horn handle to a button or oversized toggle like lever and it would also be close to the current style control stand. 

The brake lever, to me, looks more like the independent (engine) brake valve rather than the automatic (train) brake valve.  in any case, I hope the position of the brake handle in the picture isn't supposed to be the applied position.  If it is, it's backward from a real brake valve handle.

That there is no dynamic brake handle (maybe the auxilary button can simulate the switch that turned the throttle handle into the DB handle on the older engines) wouldn't bother me.  My prototype didn't have DB equipped engines. 

Unfortunately, I don't us DCC and don't have any plans to convert any time soon.

Jeff 

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Posted by rrinker on Friday, August 31, 2018 10:03 AM

 Most static photos I have seen have the power lever to the right for idle, and the brake is shown all the way to the left, and comparing that to operation videos, that would be the release position, with far right the fully applied (configurable in the throttle to act as an emergency brake which comes in handy with first timers not used to the massive momentum and need to plan ahead). For decoders that support it, one of the buttons can be configured to switch the function of the lever between independent and train brake so you can move engine light with just the independent, couple to a train, and then have it act as a train brake. Of course, int he end, anything but the independent is just a simulation, because only the loco has a decoder and a motor, so you can't quite do everything exactly like the real thing.

 I prefer Alcos, but it's not an Alco control stand - I can live with that. I also like Baldwins, especially the switchers. A notched control isn't even close to what they should have. But I can live with that. Maybe in another 10 years we will have multiple models for various types of locos and we can use a handheld miniature control stand that matches the actual loco we are running.

                                       --Randy

 


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

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Posted by tloc52 on Friday, September 7, 2018 5:11 PM

Always good to meet mr. Clueless douglas. If you knew anything about this throttle you would know they have marketed it to a niche crowd. Mainly modelers who like switching and for that group it is tremendous. You are not part of that group of modelers and there is nothing wrong with that. Enjoy what you want but don’t jump on a group you know nothing or little about. The initial order was for 150 units and before the stop date they added an additional 50 units. These were prepaid orders. They will be working on another set of advance orders. They are sold via a couple dealers and of course direct from ISE. Watch the MR video, Joe Atkinson videos on YouTube, Tim Garland on YouTube or google Protothrottle and see what is there. Not bad for one man’s idea to come to being in less than 2 years.

proud owner of a ProtoThrottle using

a ESU 7 amp CabControl system

Tom

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Posted by Doughless on Friday, September 7, 2018 5:17 PM

tloc52

Always good to meet mr. Clueless douglas. If you knew anything about this throttle you would know they have marketed it to a niche crowd. Mainly modelers who like switching and for that group it is tremendous. You are not part of that group of modelers and there is nothing wrong with that. Enjoy what you want but don’t jump on a group you know nothing or little about. The initial order was for 150 units and before the stop date they added an additional 50 units. These were prepaid orders. They will be working on another set of advance orders. They are sold via a couple dealers and of course direct from ISE. Watch the MR video, Joe Atkinson videos on YouTube, Tim Garland on YouTube or google Protothrottle and see what is there. Not bad for one man’s idea to come to being in less than 2 years.

proud owner of a ProtoThrottle using

a ESU 7 amp CabControl system

Tom

 

Not clueless.  I thought that only a niche market would be interested, and elluded to that when someone else was impressed that they have sold all they made. 

Thanks for confirming that.

- Douglas

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Posted by BigDaddy on Friday, September 7, 2018 5:26 PM

tloc52
Always good to meet mr. Clueless douglas.

This isn't Twitter.  We are here to learn, teach and have fun.  If I invented the product, no one would be posting my production numbers on an internet forum.  Unless I was Elon Musk, and then, well there are no limits for his behavior.

 

Henry

COB Potomac & Northern

Shenandoah Valley

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Posted by tloc52 on Friday, September 7, 2018 6:29 PM

No problem and sorry about the clueless remark I mis read what you wrote

tom

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Posted by tloc52 on Friday, September 7, 2018 6:31 PM

The production numbers are a well known fact on a few other forums and the ISE website. But you are right we are here to learn.

Tom

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Posted by gmpullman on Saturday, September 8, 2018 12:02 AM

...and I'll ignore the dig about the guys with cabooses in their back yards Whistling

 IMG_3090 by Edmund, on Flickr

Happy Modeling, Ed

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Posted by Doughless on Saturday, September 8, 2018 7:01 AM

gmpullman

...and I'll ignore the dig about the guys with cabooses in their back yards Whistling

 IMG_3090 by Edmund, on Flickr

Happy Modeling, Ed

 

Well, you are a much more serious railfan than me.  I hardly get out of my car, and that's sad.

In many ways, our hobby is a collection of niches.

- Douglas

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Posted by tloc52 on Saturday, September 8, 2018 8:29 AM

Ed, I love your picture. Love the caboose. Congrats! Had a chance a few years back for a Milwaukee Road caboose, in a few ways I am sorry I passed on it.  My 4 year grandson just asked about the funny looking satellite dish though, I had to try to explain signals on a railroad. 

Tom

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