Bachmann Spectrum Disapointment

[DigitalGriffin]

I bought the limited edition George Washington Spectrum last week. Here are my initial impressions:

Packaging:
The packaging was excellent, and the loco was well protected with a double cardbord shipping box and foam cut-outs for each individual car. It should be sufficient to protect it from any minor drops or bumps.

The package contains a 4-8-2 USRA Heavy Mountain Engine with 8 passenger cars, ten sections of EZ track, and two bumpers. There was also a small bag with coal and two additional unmarked pieces which I'm guessing attaches to the engine.

Documentation:
Documentation was on the light side. It consists of two main sheets:
1) A parts detail
2) A certificate detailing the history of this train, which is more complete than any web search I could find on it.

I was hoping they would at least include directions for disassembling the train for DCC decoder installation. The parts detail didn't even show what type of DCC pin connector they were using.

Mechanics and Operation

I carefully removed the train from it's packaging, and hooked up it's tender. I then transferred them to the re-railer. The track was mounted on corkboard and a 3/8" plywood sheet. The track was using R18 Power-loc, and two #4 power-loc turnouts by life-like.

I turned on the power and the engine didn't move at all! I took my finger and pressed down on the engine, and still got nothing. I then checked the wheels to make sure they were properly on the track. I then pressed down on the tender a little and the train jumped, and stuttered. When it did run, it was rough and uneven. It also made a ratcheting sound as it ran over the track going forward.

I never had a problem with my cheaper trains. I put the cheaper trains back on the test track and they just took off and ran evenly all the way around.

I inspected the bottom of the train, sure enough the pickup brushes on the engine wheels were not making any contact with any of the four drive wheels on the right side. I found one contact brush was bent downward so badly it was making contact with the ties on the track. (The ratcheting sound I heard.) I took a pair of needle nose pliers and carefully tried to bend them back. It seemed to work, but the right side brushes aren't making contact as nicely as the other side does.

One of the drive wheels had a roughly broken off metal spur on the flange. The back truck has a little bit of accidental white over-paint on the inside of its wheel also. I'm tempted to file this wheel down myself, but as I have never done this, I'm a little worried that I might make the wheel even more lop-sided. Has anybody tried this, or have other recommendations?

I added a very sparingly small amount of gear oil to the side arms. I then took an eraser and tried cleaning the wheels, to be sure that there was good contact.

Unfortunately this didn't improve things much. The train ran, but it was still rough. At times it would hit a slight bump where the joints are in the track and it's wheels would just slip and spin! When it went over the re-railer, it would often loose power, or slip and spin. I'm thinking the front cow catcher is a bit too low. Worse yet, every time I approached the #4 turnout, the front truck would derail, causing the entire train to derail! (The front truck has very shallow flanges, so I'm guessing it has a problem when it gets to the frog.)

So after about two hours of fooling around with the engine, I still hadn't gotten it to run smoothly. It had only managed to go around the track twice on it's own without derailing. [:(]

I'll see if I can post a short video of the train in operation, later this week.

I really got this set at a great price, but I’m a little disappointed to say the least. Are these common issues with higher end trains?

Do I have any advice from the experts? I would hate to have to ship the whole train box back to Bachmann just for the engine and tender.

Disclaimer: I am still new to higher end MRR and this is my first mid-high quality engine purchase. I had three other lower end engines before this, so I'm basing my opinion for the Bachmann Spectrum against the cheaper engines operation, detail, and fit and finish.

[randybc2003]

I haven't had problems like these with Bachman. I would:
1.) Fill out the Waranty Paperwork PROMPTLY
2.) Get a NMRA gage and check ALL the wheels.
3.) Contact Bachman on their Website, and complain to "The Bachman" directly. They might have some advice or be willing to honor waranty or authorize a "swap" at where ever you picked up your loco. (Bachman's website is listed in the links section)
DO NOT Scrape, cut, sand, or perminantly modify your loco without contact, as it could invalidate your warantee.
Good Luck [|(]

[Anonymous]

I have had the same problem with the last two engines i bought from bachmann,wheel wipers bent not making contact. Both have long departed and there won't be any more spectrum engines on my layout.Also there dcc ready is not dcc ready because you have to elimanate two resistors in the circut board before it will run smoothly. I personely dont want to tear a loco apart and mess with it's electronics, with the cost of todays engines and since i run all dcc spectrum isn't even considered . I would pack it up send it back to bachmann and get a new one.Bachmann has a long reputation for poor quality control on there products,Ashamed because there 4-8-2 and there 2-6-6-2 , and one can not forget that K4 are very sharp loco's Just my three cents worth.

[mustanggt]

Like railguyho said, spectrum is usually a mixed bag. My Acela is all around excellent, but mechansm on my long gone GP30 was basically garbage. even the shell was ugly. I can't wait to see how their Acela HHP8 turns out....[?]

[Anonymous]

Go ahead and oder a replacement wiper set. It's free but only during the first 90 days.

[Anonymous]

I see BOTCHMANN'S Quality hasn't changed and is still JUNK!
It's like the old saying "You get what you pay for."
You should take it back where you bought it and get your money back and put a few bucks to it and get something that will at least run when you get it home.
Every year at this time, when I worked in a hobby shop, we would get as much coming back after X-mas as we sold before.
At least we had fun "Drop-kicking" the crap to the back room when it came back!
Merry Christmas!!!!
gtirr

[Virginian]

The Bachmann Spectrum 4-8-2 Heavy is an excellent engine in my opinion, at any price, and almost a steal at what they sell it for. And I have plenty to compare it to. Unfortunately, sounds like you got one that wasn't assembled with much TLC. If you phone (don't email - email isn't real mail, and don't post to the Bach Man) their service department, I believe they will take care of you. I have found if all you need is some parts they will send you those, if you send them a copy of your receipt, or if you don't feel up to it you can send them the whole loco and they will take care of you. Be aware they are probably swamped with stuff from post-Christmas newbies at this time of year.
The decoder goes in the tender, and there is an 8 pin socket provided. I understand you need to clip one leg of 2 capacitors for good DCC operation. If you run DC like me no worries. (Strange that anyone into all the wonderful intricacies of DCC would object to that.)
Also, be aware that on this engine, one tender truck picks up from each rail, not both trucks picking up from the same rail like most past loco tenders. If one gets flipped around, even though they are made not to, it's not going anywhere.
The wheels are a little slick when new, so it will run/pull better after a little break-in. I am not familiar with any front truck tracking issues. It could be anything. I hate to ship anything, but I might consider shipping this one to Bachmann, if you can't figure out what's wrong yourself.
If I pay $1,100 plus to Division Point or whoever for a steam loco, I don't expect to do anything but be real careful of getting fingerprints on the paint while putting it on the track. That is often far from true, as they look great but often need some tweaking to run well. When I pay less than $100 for a good looking and running steam loco, I don't mind tweaking stuff, at all. Steam engines are complicated, and I can understand not having enough QUALIFIED people to test run AND tweak it, AND still be able to sell it for a decent price. So when I got a Spectrum J and the front and rear truck drawbars were swapped, it didn't bother me to fix it. When my second BLI Class A had one rod that clicked turning one way, it didn't bother me to fix that. If stuff like that does bother you, I might suggest you buy only top of the line stuff from a full retail price hobby shop, with an excellent service department, and then they will take care of you. Such places do exist. Golf Manor Hobbies in Cincinnati ain't cheap, but they do have the ability to fix about anything they sell, and they stock a lot of parts.
Nice thing about this hobby, you can do it your way.

[Anonymous]

One thing for sure,if you enjoy spending what ever amount on a brand new loco,and have to wonder how long it will be before you can actually run that loco ,go ahead and buy Bachmann.You will no dought be an expert in train repair in no time. I do not buy their products for the simple fact that I have way to many other things to do on my layout.than to lay out a hundred bucks or more just to have to tear it down as soon as i get it out of the box.I buy my trains to run and when i do decide to tear them down it will be because i want to make an improvement{dcc,sound, regear} not because i have to just to be able to see it run.Common repairs and tweaking well are common among anything that is somewhat mass produced but with Bachmann it is the rule rather than the exception.This again is only my opinion if you do decide to fix your loco and get stuck just ask there are many knowledgeable people here who will help you get your loco up and running.

[ATSFCLIFF]

My worst buy was a pair of Bachmann Spectrum 8-40CW's. Inspite of having fly wheels it ran in stops and starts, noisy and jerking all the way. I did not mind the poor detailing but the quality control is just horrible. I may seem biased, but rather than being sorry and frustrated my buys are limited to Kato and Atlas.

Cliff

[DigitalGriffin]

Wow, there's a lot of dislike for Bachmann here isn't there? Other's swear by it though.

To follow up:

I hand pushed my 4-8-2 Heavy around the track lightly by hand. I pushed it around the turnout, around the curves, and the rerailer. It became significantly harder to push around certain areas. In particular the rerailer, and turnout. After a really close inspection, I found the cow catcher on the front of the train was rubbing against the rails on some sections. Pushing up on it with my thumbs would improve operations. The train became smoother, and derailed less. But after a while, the cow catcher would settle back down, and the problems would resume. There doesn't seem to be any adjustment for this, short of filing down the bottom of the catcher which is very thin as it is. I imagine the catcher problem would be even worse as a train started to go up a hill.

I'm going to give Bachmann service a call today and see what they say.

This is my 3rd Bachmann train. The other two I had were lower end steam engines and they worked perfectly. The cheaper Bachmanns went down the track with a minimal of power, evenly and steadily. They were also considerably quieter in operation than Like-Like's cheaper diesel which got me back into this hobby. This is why I was so surprised that I got so many problems with a higher end unit.

I don't mind tweaking at all. I did it all the time on my older and cheaper loco's. But being my first NEW $$$ unit, it is a little imtimidating with all it's parts. And shouldn't it run correctly out of the box? I mean you don't buy cars off the dealer's lots if they don't run smooth. And shouldn't have someone at the factory been able to realize that there was something wrong with this train before they packed it?

[Anonymous]

If I wanted a train to push around the track, I would buy a Brio! Now there's some REAL quality! And at a lot less money too!
Model Railroader once called a "Botchmann" locomotive a "6 Foot Locomotive." From 6 Ft. away it doesn't look bad, but don't look at it any closer!"
As I said before, the most fun we have with this crap is seeing how many kicks it takes to get it to the back room in the trash pile!
"Push it around the track," Now I've heard everything!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Roadtrp]

QUOTE: Originally posted by gtirr

If I wanted a train to push around the track, I would buy a Brio! Now there's some REAL quality! And at a lot less money too!
Model Railroader once called a "Botchmann" locomotive a "6 Foot Locomotive." From 6 Ft. away it doesn't look bad, but don't look at it any closer!"
As I said before, the most fun we have with this crap is seeing how many kicks it takes to get it to the back room in the trash pile!
"Push it around the track," Now I've heard everything!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I guess you didn't read the post very closely. He pushed the loco around the track slowly to diagnose what his problems were. Haven't you ever taken a loco through a turnout manually to see why you were having derailing problems? I know I have.

Your poor opinion of Bachmann is fine... everyone is entitled to their opinion. But frankly, the way you express your opinion doesn't give you a whole lot of credibility in my view.

Just my [2c]

[Roadtrp]

QUOTE: Originally posted by DigitalGriffin

And shouldn't have someone at the factory been able to realize that there was something wrong with this train before they packed it?

My guess is that the locos are not tested before they leave the factory. They probably feel that the money they save by not testing is greater than the money they lose by having dissatisfied customers. And I would guess there are manufacturers other than Bachmann that do the same thing.

That is a pretty poor way of thinking, but lots of companies unfortunately do it.

[Anonymous]

spectrum locos always generate these Bachmann bashing threads. Bachmann has a lot of not so stellar history to overcome from thier inexpensive lines. The spectrum shays are excellent. I have three and they creep like swiss watches and they look great. The Spectrum 2-8-0 is IMHO the best deal in plastic steam right now. It looks and runs great for $50.00. As for the other stuff they produce, I can't say as I don't have direct experience. It is certainly unfortunate that you got a lemon. I would contact Bachmann and see if they can make it right.

Guy

[Anonymous]

If it were me in your shoes I would PROMPTLY return the whole works for a replacement. You expect quality and get a half -a$$ pile of steel that is supposed to be a train? You wouldn't keep an appliance that ran like that out of the box, why try to tweak a brand new train that doesn't work. If you buy it new, you should expect new operation. There's my 2 cents-J1

[Anonymous]

I would agree about returning the loco - you should be able to expect any new loco to operate properly. I suspect Bachmann's problem may be with their Chinese factories - if the people assembling them are paid per number built, you will get a few poor ones. I have an N-scale F7 by Bachmann that wouldn't run properly for ages - until I discovered that the factory had assembled the pickup wiper wrongly on one truck so it was mangled and jammed between truck and frame! A few minutes with some flat-jawed pliers straightened it out, and the loco's fine now.

Bachmann seem to have a very bad name in some circles - from my experience of their products this is unjustified. In my HO fleet I have three of their standard-line GP40/GP50s which are superb runners - as quiet as Proto and would be as smooth if they had flywheels (though for those prices I'm happy to retro-fit them!). I have an elderly Plus HO scale F7 bought used - after a brief clean of wheels, pickups, and bodywork it runs as well as Proto equipment and looks ok too. I also have one of their HO Dash8-44CWs which is fine - a little lively but this isn't really a problem once you get the hang of it. I also have five of their British diesels which are some of the finest-running locos out there. Just my experiences!

[twhite]

I'd go ahead and return the loco for either repair or replacement. Actually, I'm kind of surprised about that 4-8-2, since I have the same loco (even to the prototype) and it's an excellent runner. I DID have a little problem with one of the wipers about three months after getting it, but it was something that I could tweak without any problem. I know there's a lot of Bachmann-bashing going on around here, but I'm not one of them. I've had good luck with all four of my Spectrum locos (though I wish my Shay was just a LITTLE better at pulling). I think if you get a repair or replacement from the company, you'll be pleased at the results. The 4-8-2 is a smooth, powerful locomotive, and that C&O styling is REALLY handsome! Good luck.
Tom

[Paul3]

Here are my experiences with Bachmann:

Pro:
1). Bachmann Spectrum 44tonner (new version) - Runs good (a little loud), a snap for DCC installation, no complaints.

2). Bachmann Spectrum Shay - Superb model. Would not hesitate to recommend it to others.

3). Bachmann Spectrum 2-8-0 - A good model for the price, but I'd try before you buy because there can be lemons.

Con:
1). Bachmann Spectrum H16-44 - Bought it new, and noticed that most of the nickel-silver plating on the wheels was flaking off. This is not good. Meanwhile, the paint job (New Haven) was botched.

2). Bachmann Plus F7A (2) - I bought a pair of these new and custom painted them. After only a short time operating, both locos developed a high pitched squeel. I tried oiling them, but the squeel came back within minutes. Later, I learned that they did not use oil-impregnated bronze bearings.

3). Bachmann Spectrum Light Mountain - Bought new, and out of the box it would "walk" or "hunt" going down the track (wiggle back and forth as if it were drunk). Fine, I could live with it. Then later, after quite a while running, one of the main driver wipers slipped off it's wheel and got caught in the spokes. First it made the noise not unlike a baseball card in the spokes of a bicycle, then it snapped off. Result: now it "hunts" even more than it used to. Oh, and it's almost impossible to change out the rear coupler for a Kadee #5 (you have to file the inside of the Kadee couper to open up the hole).

4). Bachmann Spectrum 44tonner (old version) - Had two in storage (right next to each other) for a while. One was fine, but the other's wheels all corroded so bad I had to toss it.

5). Bachmann Spectrum heavyweight passenger cars - Besides the ridiculous coupler pockets that rotate, these aren't bad cars once you body mount the couplers with the Jay-Bee coupler pad. However, the paint scheme for the New Haven cars are pure fiction. They used futura lettering on some (the same kind as used on stainless steel cars), and put the small "NYNH&H" lettering on others (all in gold). They should have either used railroad roman in gold, or futura in white.

Paul A. Cutler III
*****************
Weather Or No Go New Haven
*****************

[Isambard]

The Grizzly Northern's Chief Engineer is very happy with the two Spectrum HO 2-8-0's, two Spectrum 2-10-0's and the Spectrum three-truck Shay currently operated.
Parts ordered by phone from Bachmann to carry out some customizing were promptly delivered even though the order was only worth $15.

[Anonymous]

I've had very good experiences with Bachmann HO so far. I own a few from each of their lines.

Standard: I have a UP 0-6-0 that I picked up for $25.00 at a train show. Runs smoothly, but can't pull at all. The most I could get it to pull was 7 NMRA weighted boxcars. But hey, it's supposed to be a switching engine, so I guess it shouldn't need to be able to pull a lot.

Plus/Silver Series: I have one of their FTs. Good paint job, pull ok, but they are a bit noisey when they get going. Otherwise, pretty good.

Spectrum: I have one of their Light 4-8-2s. Good puller, smooth runner, pretty much silent except there's a small click-click-click sound that happens every now and then and I can't figure out where it's coming from. But all in all it's a great locomotive.
I also own 4 Spectrum Heavywheight passenger cars. Aside from those goofy rotating coupler pockets, these are top notch passenger cars. The paint on mine (UP) was a bit too dark when compared to my Kato UP passenger cars. Also you have to make sure your track is pretty clean because otherwise their lights will flicker.

[Meyblc]

I currently own 2 different Spectrum Engines in HO scale. I have a B&M 2-8-0 and an undecorated 4-8-2 heavy.

Within 1 hour of running the 2-8-0 on my DC powered layout, the tender started to smoke badly. I opened it up to find that the circut board had actually caught FIRE!!!!
It is now in the hands of bachmann awaiting a repair.

The other engine I own, the 4-8-2 seems nice, but I can't get it run without derailing. This thing jumps off the tracks at every chance. I have a total of 22 different engines. Everything from P2k, BLI, Atlas, and a few BB Athearns. Nothing derails anywhere EXCEPT for the 4-8-2. I've checked the wheels with a guage, I've checked the track with a guage. Nothing appears wrong.

Again, both engines look great sitting around the roundhouse, but I'll never buy another Bachmann Spectrum engine.

[Anonymous]

I posted on another thread a few minutes ago about buying a new set of KATO Alco PA A and B units. Because of the problems I'd had with Bachmann products in the past, I asked Papa Ben Himself to open up the train and run it before I bought it. Another good reason for shopping at a store. From now on, whenever I buy a new locomotive, it's gonna get run before I get out of the store with it. I was there once when a couple of guys were trying out a locomotive and it didn't work right. Good thing they tried it at the store first.

m

[Anonymous]

Interesting that someone above wrote that Bachmann probably doesn't test run their engines. On another thread here, someone posted some pics of Athearn's facility (here in the US!). Notice that there are a couple of loops of track on tables. A MRR article several years back discussed this. Apparently each and every Athearn engine (at least those made in the U.S.) gets a run on the track, to ensure they operate properly. Could this be why Athearn blue box have such a loyal following?

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by cliffconceicao

My worst buy was a pair of Bachmann Spectrum 8-40CW's. Inspite of having fly wheels it ran in stops and starts, noisy and jerking all the way. I did not mind the poor detailing but the quality control is just horrible. I may seem biased, but rather than being sorry and frustrated my buys are limited to Kato and Atlas.

Cliff

The 8-40C is a result of poor electrical conducting paint on the chasis. Bachmann really did something stupid in painting the entire chasis black. The motor uses the chasis to pick up power, if you simply remove the paint on contact points, they run very well. I did a voltage reading on a unit and had 6V at the track and my meter was all over the place when I tested at the chasis. Yes they are rough on detail, but good motive power for under $20 (what you can get them for on ebay if patient) is rare.

[mcouvillion]

Digital Griffin,

Bachmann has had its share of both winners and dogs, as you can see from the previous comments. In breaking in an engine, I find that it is easier to do it on the bench. If you are concerned about disassembly, just flip it over in a soft cradle (packing foam works well) and attach power wires from your throttle (transformer) to the engine. Small alligator clips are great for this. Run the engine upside down for a while in both directions and at varying speeds. When it smooths out, place it on the track. You may want to lubricate it lightly while it is in the cradle, as most engines are not adequately lubricated from the factory. Check the valve gear and rods while it is running in the cradle for clearance, straightness, binding, etc. CAREFULLY make any adjustments.

If all else fails, send it back to Bachmann for another one. It should have a lifetime warranty.

Mark C.

[Anonymous]

I got a Bachmann Spectrum K4, It was so bad and could not pull 4 passenger cars that I gave it away