I’ve been thinking a lot lately of whether 3D printed plastic shells could help model railroading.
One particular application comes to mind. There were a lot of locomotives out there (diesel and steam) that shared very similar frames and wheelbases, of which one model may already be made. Could one application be interchangeable outer shells for different prototypes?
For example, there are a lot of 4-8-2 Mountain classes whose dimensions hovered around 73 inch drivers with a 19-20 ft driver wheelbase and 41-42 ft locomotive wheelbase. There are already two models extant of some of these Mountains (UP’s MT-1/2 and SP’s MT1-5); it seems just 3D printing out a boiler/cab and *maybe* valve gear could make for an easy job of kitbashing for another RR’s class (say, MoPac’s MT-73).
And that’s just one example-there’s plenty of other steam loco classes that share similar chassis characteristics, and it doesn’t even begin to get into the interchangeability of F or E units’ chassis, among so many other diesels.
My point is, is this viable, and it so, why isn’t it common?
MjorstadMy point is, is this viable, and it so, why isn’t it common?
3D prints are not at all cheap and a print of a full size HO scale Diesel or steam engine body costs nearly as much as RTR model just for the print, not counting the endless hours of CAD work that has to go into the "drawings"
In the UK, Howver, 3D printing has spawned a number of cottage type business providing narrow gauge body kits to fit on commercially made drives. Mind you, these are tiny locomotives when compared to the standard gauge behemoths of US prototype.
Just to give you an idea of what is already on the market:
Narrow Planet
Fourdees
These are just two examples.
Happy times!
Ulrich (aka The Tin Man)
"You´re never too old for a happy childhood!"
Is there a youtube video of locomotive shells being made by the traditional process? Somehow I imagine it's dozens/hundreds? of units per hour My impression is that 3D printing is a much slower process. At least my sons' 3D printer is a slow affair.
I wonder how different the CAD program really is for one vs the other? Somehow they have to translate a drawing of windows, rivets, fan and locker detail into the mold.
Good excuse for Stephen to send Cody on a field trip to China.
Henry
COB Potomac & Northern
Shenandoah Valley
Tinplate Toddler not counting the endless hours of CAD work that has to go into the "drawings"
not counting the endless hours of CAD work that has to go into the "drawings"
On the other hand, there's very few complex shapes involved, especially once you start getting a back catalog of components drawn (imagine a CAD Cannon and Co. or Details West) or locomotive families developed.
Its rolling stock, but no one makes Amtrak's autoracks for the Autotrain. Armed with detailed photos, it would take a moderately skilled draftsman several hours of work...which is still way less time than it would take to actually print!
Like a lot of stuff we take more or less for granted these days, I suspect that 3D printers will at some point take a quantam leap.
I expect to see fast reasonably priced machines that use a thumb type drive that will allow X many copies before it erases itself. Having watched several things recently it appears that printing engine bodies, frames, and drives be easily accomplished. Print different "phases" of the same locomotive in the same run. Custom frame set up for various motors, one or two off bodies on rolling stock with add-ins, much like detail parts are purchased now.
I really expect to see this with things like plastic pipe fittings, valves, sprinklers, etc., as shipping and stocking inventory is expensive and having what you need, including parts that wouldn't be stocked because of poor demand, printed while you wait would seem to be a reasonable thing down the road a bit.
Not going to happen tomorrow but if you look at how far cell phones have come and how we started using home computers with cassette and disk drives, nd the cost and speed of data storage, I don't think this stuff will be all that long coming. Remember when home computer printing looked like it would stop at impact printers? 4 color ribbons? 8 1/2 X 11 color prints in an astounding 25 minutes? You get the drift.
I swear I posted another reply.
Micro trains and Rapido both have decent videos on production of models. The "toolings" are several; blocks that are the sides, top and end of the shell. Neither gave the sense that there are multiple copies produced at the same time, but the Micro trains video gave the sense that one copy could be produced in seconds. Then the work begins to have a completed model.
Mjorstadis this viable, and it so, why isn’t it common?
It all comes out to cost per unit, and the economic niche that fits the process.
The tooling for plastic injection molding is very expensive; so, to make it cost effective, large production runs are needed. The recent interview with the head of Rapido talks a bit about thishttps://cprailmmsub.blogspot.com/2018/07/is-he-still-having-fun-interview-with.html
Resin fits a middle ground. The tooling is less expensive, and a smaller production run in needed to make a break even point. That is why companies like Westerfield and Funaro make the kinds of model kits that they sell. They can not compete with mass produced plastic kits, but make kits of less common prototypes.
Companies like Shapeways are geared to making one-off models made to order from a large library of designs. The cost reflects this. Their 3D printers cost over $1 million each; that is how they get a finish that is acceptable to modelers, jewelers, etc. For instance, I just checked their library for HOn30. There are 442 items listed. HO scale has 24 thousand items. You probably will not find an HO F7 shell there, but you will find parts to convert an N scale steam locomotive to HOn30 - cabs, domes, pilots, tenders and the like
George In Midcoast Maine, 'bout halfway up the Rockland branch
I think this has possibilities, but it's too expensive. Also, for locomotives, I can't tell from the pictures how acceptable the printed detail is versus separately added parts. I suspect that you will need some number of separate parts. Also the locomotive mechanism - frame, drivers, rods, motor, etc - will have to be purchased or built separately. Which makes this a kit in a time when RTR is king for locomotives and becoming so for rolling stock, structures, etc. And so may never become mainstream.
Like a lot of new technologies, this one has some real intriguing possibilities. It will be interesting to see how this develops for model railroading, especially as the costs come down and the process matures. But for the moment it is a niche area.
Paul
Hi there. In my opinion, 3D printing is likely to take more room in the hobby. I recently did a kitbash of a porter hon30 loco using a 3D print of the cab and boiler (from Shapeways). The level of detail is quite acceptable - and it can only improve in time. I see a lot of potential for detailed engine parts and buildings in the short term. My guess is that in less than a decade, many of us will have one at home and will be able to print from files downloaded from the Web. I actually can't wait for that to happen... But this will not replace the RTR, as others have mentioned.
Simon
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Having a 3D printer at home, I have finally been able to get the necessary resolution to make components for structures. I do not yet believe my home printer yet has the resolution to do detail parts. It is not as capable a printer as something like shapeways.
It has really helped in construction of many things on my layout, especially in the refinery I'm building. Ia currently building a cooling tower and the fab units at the top are cone shaped, a very difficult thing to model, however the 3D printed part was super easy to make on the printer. The other nice part is that styrene and ABS plastic will bond nicely to each other. I will post picture of said components once I get home.
Colorado Front Range Railroad: http://www.coloradofrontrangerr.com/
IRONROOSTER I can't tell from the pictures how acceptable the printed detail is
Shapeways has a number of choices of resolution; naturally the more fine the printing, the higher the cost
This is a boxcab I bought a couple of years ago, shown as received. The quality of the print was good with no filling needed
RR_Mel By using a high quality master in a Silicone rubber mold the resin figures are almost perfect.
I saw your pictures in another thread. You figures have pieces that I would think are hard to mold, like elbows sticking out away from the body, like loosely attached boomerangs. Are you making the molds with the figures head down? How do you avoid bubbles or air locks that would block the small detail?
here is one part that I 3D Printed for my Refinery. Any other method of making it would have been super difficult. It is the beige colored cone on top. It is vent fan housing for the cooling tower.
I am using Shapeways very intense for small add on parts like ditch lights etc. Larger parts with smooth surfaces are still a problem. Anyhow online ordering, printing in the Netherlands and mailing to Germany is far more pleasant than ordering brass parts etc. in the US, learn what is not on stock, pay a fortune for mailing, wait several weeks and visit the local customs office for pickup.
Shapeways used to need 2-3 weeks until they shipped. They improved that dramatically down to 2 days for my last order. Ordered Sunday, they shipped Tuesday and I got the parcel Thursday right at my door. Perfect service.
Reinhard
3-D printing is so old school now with immersion printing coming online. Might make commercial printing viable on a large scale.
rrebellMight make commercial printing viable on a large scale.
And save the Air Force a few bucks, too:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/capitalbusiness/the-air-forces-10000-toilet-cover/2018/07/14/c33d325a-85df-11e8-8f6c-46cb43e3f306_story.html?utm_term=.2ae5dcb76e29
Good Luck, Ed
GE fired up world's largest commercial jet engine usign 3D-printed metal parts
greg - Philadelphia & Reading / Reading
It was previously mentioned, but tooling is a major drawback to plastic injection molding. Model Railroading in particular requires lots of tooling to capture different styles of freight cars, locomotives and trackside buildings. And each mold is expensive to do and make. A comparison of the pros and cons of different manufacturing processes can probably show the strengths and failings of current printing methods.Now lets say its a large model railroading company such as Walthers or Athearn. They have enough money to invest in multiple toolings for multiple products. If one product fails, the success of the rest of their catalog will cover the costs of the tooling for the failed product. In comparison though, with the smaller companies such as ScaleTrains, Rapido or ExactRail each tooling mold is an investment... if the product created with the tooling fails on market then that is a huge loss of money which could be potentially disastrous for the company. They have enough market knowledge and practice to avoid this from happening, but it definetely highlights the risks each time tooling for plastic injection molding is done.
So what if you want to produce a relatively unknown prototype, which only a handful of modelers would want to buy (but also has a larger market demand than just making a one off scratchbuilt/kitbash model)? That is where the world of 3D printing, resin casting and laser wood cutting is useful. When I visited the ExactRail office a while ago to see Pelle's former layout, I got to see their laser wood cutter which was next to Pelle's layout and in use making kits when I was there. A quick visit to their TrainLife website shows the type of products they are able to produce on a smaller scale thanks to that laser wood cutter in their office; all at an investment price far cheaper than making new car tooling. 3D printing with Shapeways especially fills this demand for rare locomotive designs and freight cars. The investment in 3D drafting is not really that difficult for anyone with some Solidworks training and access to a Solidworks license; and is probably easier than desiging proper tooling for a plastic injection model. But do I think 3D printing has a widespread commercial use comparable to plastic injection models? Probably not. Its to slow to mass produce 3D printed models in the massive production requirements needed for large commercial runs. Once anything is big enough to go commercial, laser wood cutting can do it quicker for small scale batches; and plastic injection molding is a must for large scale mass produced batches.
But... if home quality printing starts becoming an option; it might be possible to found model railroad companies in the future that are more like a software company than a traditional production company. Selling digital 3D designs to consumers that could be printed at home. That thought has an almost Star Trek replicator feel to it! But until then, I think 3D printing is great for one off production models, but not ready for mass production of wide product runs.
I imagine the price of 3-D printing will come down over time. I remember our first color TV (c.1970) cost something like $500 (roughly $1500-2000 in today's money) and was about the size of a Volkswagen. The early VCRs in the mid-70's cost around $250-300, by the eighties you could find them for $100 (or less).
I think too you have to weigh the price vs. the alternatives. I'm a Great Northern fan, but I don't know that I'd pay $1000 for a brass GN Pacific, but I might pay $150 for an accurate plastic body for one designed to fit on Bachmann's or BLI's USRA 4-6-2 chassis.
I did imagine I can make replacement small detail parts for my models train by download 3D files on the web and print it out using a 3D printer in the future, younger generation who are really good at it might be able to make a living by making various plastic parts for difference models. : )
Jones 3D Modeling Club https://www.youtube.com/Jones3DModelingClub
G Paine IRONROOSTER I can't tell from the pictures how acceptable the printed detail is Shapeways has a number of choices of resolution; naturally the more fine the printing, the higher the cost This is a boxcab I bought a couple of years ago, shown as received. The quality of the print was good with no filling needed
Well that looks pretty good. I don't know your prototype, but it appears that rivet detail and grab irons need to be added maybe other things as well. And of course the mechanism. Which is part of the point I was trying to make, in an RTR world this will be a small niche in the hobby.