Howard Zane
Sheldon,
Thanks for kind words about layout. One does not need to be wealthy to purhase brass.....just knowledge of the market and desire to own and play with a really nice toy. Example: I retired 31 years ago age at age 49 by selling my business as it grew to be a monster that was bent on devouring me. But at 49.....what now? Fishing? Golf? Condo in Florida? Travel??? I don't think so. Fish stink! I hate golf! Florida...nah, I was just too young then and the average age there is deceased. Travel.... too many foriegners! But model trains as a business/hobby?!!!! I already was involved with the Timonium show and I loved building structures and brass models. During this time I owned only about five brass models, but I was a fan and possed a decent knowledge on brass.
I began the Piermont Division by selling and trading my five models and purchsed a few more at a decent price and by using the show, was able to sell these for a profit and kept tradng upwards until I amassed a fairly substantial inventory. Within a few years I was able to purchase collections....not from my own funds which were still in the marginal retirement class, but from lines of bank credit. During this period (late 80's) by knowing what I bought and knowing the market,I was able just about everytime I used bank credit, to to pay the entire amount back prior to making first payment. I'm not sure this could be done today, but after watching aforementioned auctions, I may have to rethink this.
My theory on investiing proved to be real............three things are needed to be successful: Knowledge of what you are investing in, belief in same and control. The stock market offered none of this for me, but brass trains and model railroading in general...you bet!
Point...? Sure, all of these Broadway Limiited, MTH, Athearn, etc plastic and cast models are wonderful, but prices now are comparable to used brass counterparts. Only if you elect to purhchase the brass model and want to trade or sell it later, most likely you'll capture what you paid for it unless you wholesale it to a dealer. Still if purchased right and model is desireable, you still may come out OK. The plastic or die cast model....not so! Just check shows and on-line auctions.
Please don't put all brass folks into an elitist category as I'm certainly not nor are the many folks I know today in brass.
HZ
Howard,
I understand what you are saying, and what you did.
The difference for me is that I do not want my hobby to also become a business.
Since you may remember from other conversations that I do have a background in the train business, I decided when I left the hobby shop business, that I no longer wanted my hobby and job to be one and the same - or even partly intertwined.
I'm 60 now, still running a small custom residential design/build company specializing in historic restoration. Not sure that I will ever completely retire. But I don't want to be in the model train business.
I don't buy models for my personal use and then later sell them off. Quite literally, in 50 years in this hobby, I have only sold off about 8-10 items I later decided would not fit the layout scheme as first thought at their purchase.
I have never really changed scale, gauge, era, locale or roads modeled that would prompt some change in equipment on a wholesale level.
I still own most every model train I have ever purchased, AND, I am VERY PICKY about buying used items..........I'm not an impulse buyer, and I don't get bored with suff I choose.
Borrowing money to buy and then resell brass would be like running another business, I already run two. In addition to my design/build business, my wife and I have rental properties which I manage.
I'm happy you have done well over the years with the train show and the brass business, but even the most "minimal" speculation in used model trains does not interest me as a hobby or a business.
Actually, I hate "the hunt", searching for desired models on the secondary market. If I could just walk into the "perfect" model train store and buy what I need, when I need it, I would be very happy.
I just want to build my layout and run my trains.
And as it turns out, my modeling interests can be satisfied without buying much brass. I model 1954, here in the Mid Atlantic, my freelanced ATLANTIC CENTRAL interchanges with the B&O, C&O, and WM.
While I like good detail and good quality, I'm not OCD about accuracy, I gave up on that 30 years ago when I realized it was making the hobby not fun.
So close enough is good enough, a mix of steam and diesel that meets the operational needs of the layout scheme and reflects the spirit of the roads modeled is just fine.
If I had to consider the "resale potential" of a model train purchase before making it, I would get out of this hobby. The only thing in this life I have ever bought with a consideration for its resale value is real estate.
For me, model train money is the same as "taking the wife to dinner" money.......
As noted above, the two brass locos I own have been modified and painted for my freelance road with no more regard for their future "value" than a kit bashed Bachmann Consolidation.
Which brings me to another point. For me, a big andvantage of mass produced commercial models is the fact that it is easy to own multiple copies.
The real railroads don't own one of this, and one of that. They have fleets. The B&O had 100 Q-3's and 100 Q-4's, the PRR had 425 K4's, etc.
The point is, to build a convincing roster requires duplicates in my mind. Engine terminals need three of this, and six of that, not nine different locos.
Sure it can be done in brass, making an already expensive exercise in "searching" even more demanding of time and resources.
Guess what? It was really easy and afordable for me to own:
9 - Spectrum USRA Heavy Mountains (three are C&O)
10 - Spectrum 2-8-0's
5 - Spectrum 2-6-6-2's
3 - Spectrum 2-10-2's
2 - BLI USRA Heavy 2-8-2's
2- Proto 2-8-8-2's, now ATLANTIC CENTRAL 2-8-8-0's
2 - BLI 2-6-6-4's, now with Bachmann large C&O tenders and lettered ATLANTIC CENTRAL - how much is a N&W Class A in brass?
5 - Bachmann 2-8-4's, which I converted to freelanced 2-8-2's a la the DT&I 800's
and so on.....and they all run good, pull well, and look their part.
As well as matched sets of first generation diesels, mostly from Proto2000, Genesis and Intermountain.
Sorry, but I would never own a brass diesel, they will never hold a candle detail wise to plastic, in my view.....
And, nearly every steam loco lettered ATLANTIC CENTRAL has been kit based or modified in some way to create a family look to my steam fleet. Not a good idea for brass locos you "plan" to resell at some point.
So you see, they just don't fit my needs or wants, and they cost too much in some cases, or in other cases don't run any better (without lots of work) then the plastic ones.
I'm just not a train collector, and I don't want to be a train dealer or speculator - those are different hobbies/businesses I'm not interested in.
Sheldon