I like to acquire new (or nearly so) DC UP locos to convert to DCC / sound, which gives me lots of flexibility on loco types, rather than being constrained to current production offerings. But I find I am only semi-informed on the past offerings and would like to be a bit more clear. Since there are numerous brands, I would be happy to know more about the brands I usually look at. (The evolution on others, such as Kato, Intermountain, I think may be more straightforward.)
1. On Lifelike: I have avoided the rather early LL, but happily enough bought quite a few Proto 2000 and a few Proto 1000. My questions here:
What is the time frame for the Proto 2000 and 1000 pre-Walthers LL's? How about the Walthers era items that were still labelled as LL? And can you clarify the box color evolution (gray, blue, etc?). This would be interesting so I can understand the sequence when I am buying.
2) On Athearn, what are the (post Blue Box, (Bev Bel??), etc) loco category descriptions? I was out of the hobby a long time, but I do not care to take on the older varieties for DCC conversion, but for my (more recent) DCC conversion candidates, I am rather confused.
When did the Genesis (more detailed) series start? Was there more than one detail level before Genesis? What was the non-Genesis loco then called when Genesis came out? What are the box color types at various times? And, more recently, there is the RTR series, which I understand is mostly Roundhouse or non-Genesis earlier "Athearn" loco detail. A good example, I bought an Athearn yellow box GTEL Veranda, not Genesis, that has rather nice detail.
3) One brand that I understand least is the Atlas locos of the last 20 years or so. I have seen Gold, Silver, Master, etc. but have nil understanding of that evolution.
If someone can clarify, it may assist in several ways. And, if the drive train quality changed during these, what I might call, intermediate periods, that also would be of interest. I know bits and pieces from prior threads, but have no continuity on it regarding these three key brands that I often look at.
Many thanks for any clarity offerred.
Paul
Modeling HO with a transition era UP bent
Paul, I'm sure you know about HOseeker.net. Some of the manufactures, like Athearn have dates on the diagrams.
A good place to start.
Mike.
My You Tube
I don't think there is such a thing as a "production vintage tracker" for past runs of locomotives and their characteristics. There should be.
For Atlas, they do a good job of cataloging previous releases, but its only by locomotive model, not roadname:
http://archive.atlasrr.com/ho-mcloco-archive.html
- Douglas
peahrens I like to acquire new (or nearly so) DC UP locos to convert to DCC / sound, which gives me lots of flexibility on loco types, rather than being constrained to current production offerings. But I find I am only semi-informed on the past offerings and would like to be a bit more clear. Since there are numerous brands, I would be happy to know more about the brands I usually look at. (The evolution on others, such as Kato, Intermountain, I think may be more straightforward.) 1. On Lifelike: I have avoided the rather early LL, but happily enough bought quite a few Proto 2000 and a few Proto 1000. My questions here: What is the time frame for the Proto 2000 and 1000 pre-Walthers LL's? How about the Walthers era items that were still labelled as LL? And can you clarify the box color evolution (gray, blue, etc?). This would be interesting so I can understand the sequence when I am buying. 2) On Athearn, what are the (post Blue Box, (Bev Bel??), etc) loco category descriptions? I was out of the hobby a long time, but I do not care to take on the older varieties for DCC conversion, but for my (more recent) DCC conversion candidates, I am rather confused. When did the Genesis (more detailed) series start? Was there more than one detail level before Genesis? What was the non-Genesis loco then called when Genesis came out? What are the box color types at various times? And, more recently, there is the RTR series, which I understand is mostly Roundhouse or non-Genesis earlier "Athearn" loco detail. A good example, I bought an Athearn yellow box GTEL Veranda, not Genesis, that has rather nice detail. 3) One brand that I understand least is the Atlas locos of the last 20 years or so. I have seen Gold, Silver, Master, etc. but have nil understanding of that evolution. If someone can clarify, it may assist in several ways. And, if the drive train quality changed during these, what I might call, intermediate periods, that also would be of interest. I know bits and pieces from prior threads, but have no continuity on it regarding these three key brands that I often look at. Many thanks for any clarity offerred.
Paul,
That's a lot of info you are looking for.
That said, I can likely fill in a lot of it. But I doubt I can do it all in one sitting tonight.
One brand at a time:
Life Like/Proto2000/1000
First a little background on LifeLike. Prior to the Proto lines, LifeLike made average/poor quality train set stuff. Made in China, it was based on tooling from their purchase of the VARNEY line.
Proto2000 started in 1989 with the BL2, followed by the first version of the FA2. These models came in brown boxes and the undecorated versions are in black plastic.
Later the boxes changed to blue, and the raw plastic changed to gray.
Understand this, it would take a small book to cover every evolutionary change to every loco in the Proto line from its introduction in 1989 to the sale of the line to Walthers in 2005.
But know this, while improvements and minor changes were many, the basic designs and quality during the whole LifeLike period is similar, and was exceptional for the time. And, in many ways they still represent exceptional models.
The drive of most of the locos is a clone of the Athearn drive. An Athearn drive, reverse engineered, improved slightly, with better motors than Athearn of that era, and exceptionally well detailed shells.
In no special order, a few of the evolutionary changes include:
Circuit board improvements as DCC advanced.
Later offerings of sound and DCC installed.
Improved coupler mounting and close coupling of units.
Many of the four wheel truck models suffer from the cracked gear problem - easily fixed with new Athearn gears.
Why did Lifelike sell to Walthers? LifeLike had become a giant in the styrofoam business far beyond its beginings in model trains. When the Kramer family wanted to sell LifeLike (Lifefoam Industries), all the potential buyers wanted the styrofoam business, not the train business. So a deal was struck with Walthers for the hobby division.
At first, because a number of products were already in the works, little changed. But gradually Wathers changed the box color to silver/gray, minimized the LifeLike name, retooled a number of models (and the drives), and introduced new products not previously offered. But all still produced by the same sources in China.
And that is roughly where we are today. There is sill some of the original "LifeLike" in the Walthers Proto line, but like all things it has evolved.
For my money, they are all great models, early or recent. BUT, being a DC modeler, I have mostly the older LifeLike produced models, about 60 of them at last count.
If it says Proto2000, and is the loco I am looking for, I would by it, regardless of vintage. But again, I prefer DC versions.......
Athearn - I'm not going go real deep here, because my experiance with the Genesis line is really limited to the EMD F units. And my other Athearn experiance would be 1980's Blue Box, and before......... Most all the other Genesis diesel offerings are well outside my 1954 timeframe, and I don't buy stuff outside of the era I model.
If you want F units, Genesis is a good as any in my view, but so is Intermountain and Proto. I have lots of all three......
Again, a lot of the locos in question are not on my radar.
Many years ago, I worked in the hobby business, starting at age 14 in 1971, and by young adulthood I was managing the train department of a hobby shop. But I left that busienss in the early 80's.
Understand this about Roundhouse/Ready to Roll/Genesis today, in that order each brand represents detail level, Good, Better, Best.
The products offered by all Athearn brands today are a complex evolution of the original Athearn and Roundhouse product lines from way back in the day. Many rolling stock items still in production today in the Roundhouse line go all the way back to the early 50's. Many Ready to Roll items go back a ways as well, but have been partly retooled in some way.
I could bore you to death with what I know about many Athearn and Roundhouse products, and not cover the stuff you are intersted in. And again, because of my personal modeling interests, I have not devoted any time to locomotives from more recent eras.
I'm sure some others will chime in, more later when time allows.
Sheldon
"One difference between pessimists and optimists is that while pessimists are more often right, optimists have far more fun."
There's not a lot about Atlas. Outside of new offerings like the Trainman line, which are less detailed, they didn;t really change a whole lot. Master series came about with DCC. Master Silver were DCC ready version, Master Gold had DCC (and sound in many cases). Mechanicals changed over the years, earliest were made by Roco, then Kato, finally all in-house (manufactured in CHina like everything else - often by the same people that make other brands). ANy of them are good runners.
Frankly, outside of train set quality stuff, there's nothing I turn down if it fits my era and railroad. ANy deficiencies in drives are not all that diffuclt to correct, there are tons or remotor options for old Athearn BB locos. Lack of detail can likewise be addressed by adding ladders, grabs, and lift rings to otherwise bare models.
I prefer the DC versions, as I've standardized on one brand of decoder and I'd rather not pay for something I'll never use, but if the price is right (I've gotten several DCC/Sound locos for below the original price of the DC version) I'll still take it. In most cases, even if the loco has a DCC plug, I remove the factory board and eliminate all potentially sktechy electronics and just wire right to the decoder. That way I know it's always right, not "hope they got the connector right"
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
There is some information on here, with drop list for manufacturers, locomotives, etc. Not too much detailed info, but alot of dates, etc.
http://ho-scaletrains.com/