First of all, let me introduce myself since I'm new here. I'm Andy and I love trains!
So, for my question!
I am the director of a new Teen Center that will be opening up in our town, hopefully in the next couple months. We are currently renovating the building. We have a ton of space and I have decided that it would be great to share my love of trains with the teens so I am going to be building a smallish layout. If the interest is there, we will be able to dedicate a much larger space to it in a future phase!
I am pretty new to all the latest technology since my layout at home is built pretty much from bits and pieces I've been able to find at yard sales. It is very low-tech! I want to do the layout with the teens right and there will be some money available specifically for it so what I'm wanting is some advice on what I should plan for to really make this enjoyable and interesting for the teens.
Here's the specs for what we are planning to do:
HO guage
The layout itself will be a lopsided horseshoe shape. It will be built against a wall with the back being 14' wide. The right leg of the horseshoe will come out from the wall 8.5' and be 5' wide. The left leg will come out 7' and be 5' wide. The center against the wall will come out 2.5'. The goal is to make the entire thing easily accessable to work on.
At the moment we don't really have anything other than a couple peices of rolling stock and a whole slew of used brass snap track that I don't think I want to use so we will be virtually starting from scratch.
What should I get?
I'm leaning towards DCC, is that a good idea? If so, what would be the best for us? I can't imagine we'll be running more than a couple trains at once but I really don't know.
What kind of track should I use?
Should I be thinking in a different direction on any of the plans?
How can I make this the most beneficial to the teens?
Thank you for any and all advice!
Use Nickel Silver track. Use DCC because it is easier to wire and teens will like it because it is more high tech. Design a track plan that you can have several kids operating their trains at once because nobody wants to stand around and wait while others are having fun.
You might even want to think about one of the integral track systems such as Kato UniTrack or Bachmann's track system -- nickle silver rail and the track is built into the roadbed. The reason I suggest it is that the track plan can be easily changed. And that in turn could give each interested teen a chance to design "their" track plan and see it be built and used for a while. Then the next kid gets their chance, and so on.
Some DCC systems allow trains to be controlled by phone apps - no throttle per se is needed. I think teens would get into that, assuming they are interested in trains to begin with and have modern devices/phones. In fact if I ever went that route I think I'd need to find a teenager to help me figure it all out.
What would be nice would be some participatory aspect such as building structures, scenery, etc. Unfortunately the day of cheap structure or rolling stock kits is pretty much over unless you scour the swap meets. Is there an established model rr club in your area that you could look to for help? Most modelers have more structures and rolling stock kits than they could ever hope to complete and if you offered a worthy respository for them to be donated to, it could be a win-win.
But scenery can be fun if done right, and without meaning to be stereotypical, it is one aspect of model railroading that girls might get into as much as boys.
Locally I can recall groups of teens meeting at a popular railfan spot and spending a day or part of a summer day watching trains, with an experienced railfan who had a scanner, ATCS monitor, and knew enough to suggest how trains can be photographed. It isn't modeling per se but can help build interest (or "create the addiction" if you want to think in those terms).
Should you find a teen who is really into trains and railroading don't forget the annual "Railcamp" that the National Railway Historical Society runs just for them. Perhaps a local NRHS Chapter would be willing to sponsor and help defray travel and other expenses.
Dave Nelson
You don't say where you live but I bet some locals will donate some of what you need and may give or loan you things like controlers and stuff till you get a handle on things.
Thank you for all the advice!
I didn't know (but I should have figured) that there were DCC systems that used smart phone apps! That would definitely be a plus.
We do have a wonderful club that my son and I just joined south of us in Coshocton county Ohio. We are in Millersburg. I'm sure there will definitely be some local support from other modelers. I have already been told about a couple that I need to get in contact with.
One of the big misconception with teens today is that all they are interested in is their video games and being on their phones. The truth is, that is all they're offered anymore. A lot of them just don't have anyone who will take the time to introduce them to the kind of quality activities that most of us took for granted at that age. That's why I am going to just have the layout available and let it get them interested in it instead of trying to get them interested first. I'm pretty sure we'll have a fair amount of interest. I'm pretty excited!
Thanks again for the input, please continue to share any ideas you might have that you think might help!
Hi Andy,
What an opportunity to get a few young ones into our hobby for life! Not only that but they can get into construction, use recycling techniques, make simple or complex models, do landscape designs and some basic electrical skills
You have a lot of options and all would suit
Freemo - check out http://free-mo.org/
T Trak - does not appear to be a North American Site but there is an Australian one based on N scale T Trak http://t-trak.nscale.org.au/other-scales/t-trak-ho
Modules - You could check out the Saint John NB module system here on
https://sites.google.com/site/sjsmrclub/home/module-specifications among others
or a set layout as per a plan but realise you will be committing a relatively big chunk of real estate to something that might not have the flexibility that kids will need!
Everyone elses ideas will also work well and communities will/should support you.
If you care to PM me, I have a few means of construction that people will readily donate timber bits that you can make light weight frames. I also have a few ideas on my website www.xdford.freeasphost.net which you could apply to your kids,
Good Luck from Australia
Trevor
I hate to have to remind people, but there are always a few rotten apples in every barrel. Consider the security of the layout, particularly if it becomes like a club and members are bringing in their own equipment and sometimes leaving it. A simple locked cabinet for the more valuable items like locomotives would suffice to start.
It's a shame we have to be concerned about this, but such is our modern world.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
I would recomend RailPro for the train control system. Easier to install and easier to operate than DCC. Radio control out of the box, Not extra like DCC. No CV or address programing to do. No CV settings to remember or keep track of. The handheld controler looks and works like a smart phone.
No batteries to buy as the RailPro handheld controller is rechargable out of the box. Nothing extra to buy. DCC controllers need batteries.
Using a smart phone app is a disaster waiting to happen. How many kids will be allowed to have the app on their phones? How can you stop anyone from putting the app on their phone? How do you control who is operating if 6 kids have the app? If you are going to buy the phones, they would be awful tempting to be taken home.
Use nickle silver track. The newer type snap track has interesting posibilities. The layout could be changed at will. New ideas would be easy to try.
Whatever you do, have fun.
Thank you guys so much for all your input!! I have already learned a lot as I have looked into the different suggestions that have been given.
I am really excited to get this going, yesterday I had a group of about 15 teens that came to the Center to help with the renovation and one boy saw an old Bachman set that is missing the engine that someone had given me. He asked me if he could have it. When I told him it was intended for the Center and that we were going to be doing a layout, he got really excited and said, "Really!? That's awesome!! I'll be here every day!!"
As I have worked with teens over the past several years, I have noticed something that surprises a lot of people. The sterotype is that teens are only interested in video games and being on their phones. That is actually not true for a lot of them. The truth is, the video games and phones are all that is offered to them by most people. Many of them don't have someone who will introduce them to the hobbies, games, and other wonderful activities that most of us took for granted! I carry a backpack full of card games with me and it is amazing how much they love playing! If they get the chance to learn something "new" they will often forget about their phones and just soak in the new experience! That is the goal for the Center is; to be willing to do these things WITH them!
Please continue to give me your input and ideas! I want to make sure I'm doing it right so that they will not only enjoy doing it at the Center but also form a lifelong love for this wonderful way to spend time! :)
I think what I'm going to do isbuild a low table for the base. I figured we would spend a while just putting track together on it and playing with ideas before we start on something more permanent. I've only used the old fashioned snap track myself so I'll have to look into some of the options.
I had just heard about being able to use a phone app for the throttle, they would definitely like that!
I agree with you that girls would be more likely to get into building the scenery. I am really hoping to involve as many as possible. My daughter is starting to get interested in my layout at home now that we're starting into that part of it!
I've never heard of the Railcamp! I'll have to check that out!
Thank you for the site suggestions! I hadn't thought about doing actual modules per se but I was thinking about having several different dedicated spaces that could be adopted by some of the more dedicated teens and designed uniquely to their own creative ideas. The modular design is intriguing!
As far as the construction materials, I have the advantage of having a huge building that is going to be under renovation for a long time as we move through several more phases. Lumber and other building supplies will be readliy available whenever we need them!
That is a very good thing to remember. I will definitely take that suggestion and provide some locked storage.
We are in Millersburg, Ohio. There is a wonderful club 30 minutes south of us in Coshocton County that my son and I have just applied to join. I am sure there will be some help available there as it seems to be a great group with a lot of resources available. I am already learning from them after just being to the clubhouse a couple times!
RailPro looks interesting. The only problem I see is that while I don't anticipate the teens themselves having a lot of their own equipment, I could easily imagine that there will be people in the community that would bring their own engines to at least show the teens and possibly loan to us. Would other DCC locos be able to run on the RailPro system? It certainly does look easy to use though!
JediAndy RailPro looks interesting. The only problem I see is that while I don't anticipate the teens themselves having a lot of their own equipment, I could easily imagine that there will be people in the community that would bring their own engines to at least show the teens and possibly loan to us. Would other DCC locos be able to run on the RailPro system? It certainly does look easy to use though!
Interesting conundrum you have. I agree with others about using a dcc system that works with cell phone, if not for any other reason than it may make a more comfortable transition for the kids.
You're going to need locomotives, I recommend the bachmann dcc equipment. Low budget and decent quality. A sign in for the locomotives would be a good idea, teaches responsibility.
How many do you expect to attend on a regular basis?
Modeling the Cleveland and Pittsburgh during the PennCentral era starting on the Cleveland lakefront and ending in Mingo junction
I am not familiar with RailPro on cell phones. Are there ways to prevent problems like two people trying to control the same locomotive at the same time, or someone leaving while still have control of a locomotive?
.
Just curious. If anything can go wrong, it will probably go wrong in a teen center.
-Kevin
Living the dream.
Andy, and I would defer on this, but RailPro is NOT a DCC sytem it is a radio controlled system that runs off, essentially, a hand held computer. I vote for Kato Unitrak instead of the Bachmann variety.
Bear "It's all about having fun."
OK, I think I am definitely going to go with a DCC system but I am still struggling to know exactly what I will need to buy to get us started.
I could see us having 10 - 15 kids actively involved with the layout but I don't really know for sure until we get the Center open. I'm looking forward to finding out!
I can't see us running more than 2 - 4 trains at a time on the initial layout but if we dedicate some space in a future phase we would do a lot more.
Can you guys give me some recommendations on what DCC systems are best and exactly what we need to get started from scratch?
I'm sure once I've got more experience with it I'll wonder why I couldn't figure this out on my own but for now, I think there is just too many different things to look at and figure out what they are for!
Thanks again for all the advice!
And, you have asked one of the most contentious questions in recent history, which DCC system is best. There are a couple of threads on the Electronics and DCC forum, over the last week or two and if you access them you will see that everyone has their own preference. The NCE people swear by NCE and the Digitrax people swear by Digitrax. There is someone, I forget who, who is perfectly happy with MRC Prodigy, and I suspect that there are some Lenz folks hiding somewhere in the woodwork. Whatever system you finally decide on, make sure it is expandable in case you decide to run more than the 2 - 4 trains that you are envisioning now. Check the March 15 thread entitled DCC Starter Set and you will see what I mean about the contentiousness of the subject.
In order to get started you will need a track plan. My suggestion is to access a model railroad club in your area and you might try to convince one or two of the members to collaborate with you on this and maybe even consult and help you out as you proceed through constructing the layout. Model railroaders are general decent people and seeing some youngsters coming up with an interest in the hobby is a very good thing.
After you get the track plan together, you will have to purchase lumber, wiring, circuit breakers, road bed (unless you are going to use Kato Unitrak) and track and the DCC system of choice. You do NOT have to buy everything at once. You may even be able to get some of the materials donated or at least discounted given what the purpose of the project is.
One word of caution, check with the powers-that-be and make sure they understand that there will be power tools, sharp knives, box cutters etc being used to construct the layout, and there may be some liability issues. Obviously, the kids will have to be closely supervised. I assume that the kids will be the main construction crew, and they will get a lot out of building a layout. They will learn how to paint, how to work with lumber, about electricity etc.
What If,,,
You went the module route, give each kid or team,there own space.You only need 4 corners to start. Build to standard spec. You may want to take on the road someday.Have a simple 2 track main required,make mods 3ft long,2 pc of flex track, done, even if you have a few bare ones, open for future members.
Was it I; keep hight at 38/40in. so is to not temp sitting on it.Keep control system simple,Stuff thatis easy to get and use, Digitrax?? Its a lot harder to dumb down, then to up grade.
IMO, they need to realize that not every thing can be done on a phone, and everybody does't get to play at the same time.
If ther is LHS nearby;used equipment?