I have a really old CB&Q Tyco GP20 that belonged to my dad when he was a kid. I would like to get it running again because I also have a few other CB&Q locomotives and it would be cool if I could run all of them together. One day, it suddenly stopped working, which I am 80% sure is because the motor brushes wore out. Is there a cheap and easy way to fix the engine? Also, if I do manage to get it working again, how will I replace the old couplers with Kadee ones (the original couplers cannot be removed)? I have heard of people repowering it with the innards of another locomotive, such as an Athearn GP35, but how cheap is this? Am I better off getting another locomotive?
Matthew Cheng
Come check out my Youtube channel! https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCSlaF4fvDX1brq6YOeODLPw
The really old (by that I assume made in USA, not Hong Kong) Tyco GP20 had a distinctive frame and motor arrangement, and the body shell was tailored to fit it (which causes some considerable non-prototypical elements around and in front of the cab for example, which you might want to take into account in deciding if the engine is worth reviving).
Thus it would not likely just sit down on a powered underframe from Athearn or LifeLike or Hobbytown without some modifications. And remember that the "really old" Athearn diesels had motors wide enough that Athearn had to widen their body shells to fit.
Your best bet might be to seek out another really old Tyco F9 or GP20 (which shared a similar frame and motor arrangement) that still runs well. Check to see if it is really really old (made in USA) or just old (made in Hong Kong).
The other option is to make it a dummy so it can still run with your other CB&Q locos.
There was an outfit, Yardbird, selling parts to older stuff but their website dated 2015 says the business is closed and remaining inventory is or was being sold on Ebay. But they kept the website alive for the parts list. No parts for this engine are listed.
Dave Nelson
Hobbytown of Boston makes a chassis which is a direct drop in for that body, listed as a GP9/GP20/GP30.
http://hobbytownofboston.com/?page_id=61
Rick Jesionowski
Rule 1: This is my railroad.
Rule 2: I make the rules.
Rule 3: Illuminating discussion of prototype history, equipment and operating practices is always welcome, but in the event of visitor-perceived anacronisms, detail descrepancies or operating errors, consult RULE 1!
There are also a couple of pages Tyco GP20's in Ebay.
Rick, that Hobbytown site looks interesting. It would be nice if they had some pictures or diagrams of the chassies, instead of hoping a particular shell will fit. I found the set that you linked to, and it's $65.
Mike.
My You Tube
Trainzguy2472 I have a really old CB&Q Tyco GP20 that belonged to my dad when he was a kid. I would like to get it running again because I also have a few other CB&Q locomotives and it would be cool if I could run all of them together. One day, it suddenly stopped working, which I am 80% sure is because the motor brushes wore out. Is there a cheap and easy way to fix the engine?
I have a really old CB&Q Tyco GP20 that belonged to my dad when he was a kid. I would like to get it running again because I also have a few other CB&Q locomotives and it would be cool if I could run all of them together. One day, it suddenly stopped working, which I am 80% sure is because the motor brushes wore out. Is there a cheap and easy way to fix the engine?
I don't know if I would call this fix easy but I rebuilt a couple of Tyco GP20's that have the "pancake motors". I bought a bunch of motors off of E-bay and replaced the worn out motor in the truck.
And while I had everything torn apart I used new Atheran wheels sets modified to fit the Tyco truck.
The end result is a smooth running Tyco engine. Now the money part. You'll need a lathe and a bench top mill to make the improvement.
Bernd
New York, Vermont & Northern Rwy. - Route of the Black Diamonds
protolancer(at)kingstonemodelworks(dot)com
First off, How would I be able to dismantle the power truck? I have thoroughly looked it over and tried to pry pieces off, but it won't come apart. Also, the motor looks totally different than the ones in your pictures. Here are some pictures of my engine.
HI there,
I have a US Made Cotton Belt GP20 which I fitted an Athearn BB GP9 chassis to and put a Mashima motor into it with Athearn Universals.
The loco was more sentimental like yourself with my parents having given it to me as my first scale item nearly 50 years ago! And yes it still performs OK and ventures out on the mainline fairly often. I model a loose Canadian theme but as I have seen pics of Southern Pacific units in Toronto, I can live with it!
Cheers from Australia
Trevor
www.xdford.freeasphost.net for your interest
xdford HI there, I have a US Made Cotton Belt GP20 which I fitted an Athearn BB GP9 chassis to and put a Mashima motor into it with Athearn Universals. Trevor www.xdford.freeasphost.net for your interest
Trevor, thanks for reminding me, but there was an article in Mainline Modeler magazine on repowering the Tyco GP20 with a frame and motor from Proto-Power West (A-Line) along with making modifications to the body to make it more realistic.
I checked their website and it seems they no longer offer the frame to make this conversion.
I believe my engine currently is fitted with a Mantua motor. At the moment, I have been able to remove the sideframes and motor brushes. Is there a way to replace the motor brushes? If not, will the body be compatible with a later Power Torque motor truck?
In from HOseeker.net.
http://hoseeker.net/assemblyexplosiontyco/tyco228gp20pg1.jpg
http://hoseeker.net/assemblyexplosiontyco/tyco228gp20pg2.jpg
If the links don't work, go to hoseeker.net, click on liturature, scroll down to Tyco.
I'm not sure about brushes, if they availiable.
Like I mentioned in a previous post, there a few locos on Ebay, for reasonable prices, you can use for parts.
Did you check out the site Rick linked to? They have a complete powered chassie for $65.
I have the super old Mantua-style motor on my engine. I was able to partially deconstruct the motor and take the mounting for the brushes off. They are these little carbon plates attached to brass rods. There does not seem to be very much wrong with them at a glance, other than that they appear to be rather worn. There is still a lot left of them, though. Also, the rotor (part where the brushes contact) appears to be covered with a blackish substance that is probably from the brushes. Do you think this would affect the conductivity going into the motor?
If it isn't an issue with the brushes, what are some other reasons that my motor doesn't work anymore?
UPDATE:
I seem to have gotten the motor working (for now) by cleaning the rotor and brushes. The next question is: How do I install Kadee couplers in the coupler pockets because it appears they are riveted together so I cannot open them.
Matthew
Well Mathew, now you've don it! I just had to go deep into the archive tubberware containers and dig out mine.
Everything on this loco is riveted, like it was not made to come apart. Even the way the truck side frames are attached. They are plastic, but when you gently try to remove them, the little tabs break right off.
I would probably grind of one side of the rivet off of the coupler box, and for reassembly, drill out the hole a little bigger, and replace it with a screw, or tap the hole in the truck base to accept a machine screw, like a 2-56. Hopefully, replacing the plastic horn/hook coupler with a metal Kadee won't cause problems, as the coupler box is all metal.
Something else to look for, the front truck, with the motor attached, has plastic drive wheels on one side, and they have traction tires on them. It's like little rubber "O" rings. Sometimes the wheels crack.
I noticed you can't even seperate the motor from the truck, or remove the bottom truck cover with out grinding off rivets. It's really something how they assembled these.
The body shell is nice, mine has metal railings that are very close to scale, and there's even a little brass bell on the top.
When it was running, this was one of my favoite locos.
Evidently you've figured out how to remove the little board that holds the brushes in.
Good luck, I won't stash mine away again, until you get things figured out, leaving it out for a quick refference.
Hello all,
Glad to hear the update that you've gotten your vintage locomotive running.
Trainzguy2472...(it) belonged to my dad when he was a kid.
An admirable reason for restoring this unit.
Albert Einstein was famous for saying, "The only way to get all the worms back in the can is to use a bigger can."
This project might be in need of the "...bigger can."
One thing that is most often overlooked, when beginning a project like this, is the expense of specialized tools.
Yes, you can replace the Hook & Horn type couplers with Kadees.
In addition to the tools needed to drill out the rivets you will need a coupler height gage to make sure the replacement coupler is at the correct height.
It appears that the couplers are mounted to the trucks. For more reliable operation you might consider body mounting the couplers.
To do this you will need to cut off the coupler pocket from the trucks and install draft gear boxes to the shell.
A tap set for 2/56 screws would be needed to body mount the draft gear boxes.
This might be a better option as opposed to trying to retrofit Kadees into the original draft gear boxes.
It also appears that this unit has traction tires on one side of the trucks with electrical pickups on the opposite side.
New traction tires are readily available from aftermarket sources, but the problem with electrical pickup on only one side of each truck might cause operating problems; especially if you decide to convert from DC to DCC.
North West Short Line makes Stanton drive motors; the motor is incorporated into the trucks, in addition to a plethora of remotering supplies.
The advantage of using a Stanton drive motor is that you don't have to worry about replacing the gear towers along with the motor.
After doing a quick search I found a refurbished Tyco GP 20 on eBay for a "Buy It Now" price of $25.00. The seller is also offering the "Make Offer" option.
This unit still has the O.E.M. Hook & Horn couplers so you would need to convert them to Kadees, but you could just swap the shell which would save you time and give you a source for spare parts, from the first unit.
At some point you have to decide whether the cost out weights the sentimental value.
Personally, if it were me; being an "old softie" and having already invested in the specialty tools, I would make an offer for the eBay unit, for spare parts, and open the proverbial "can of worms" understanding that this might lead you to a "bigger can".
Hope this helps.
"Uhh...I didn’t know it was 'impossible' I just made it work...sorry"
Both Tyco and Life Like products have potential to be kitbashed into something more protypical if you want an accurate looking locomotive or caboose.
jjdamnitAfter doing a quick search I found a refurbished Tyco GP 20 on eBay for a "Buy It Now" price of $25.00. The seller is also offering the "Make Offer" option. This unit still has the O.E.M. Hook & Horn couplers so you would need to convert them to Kadees, but you could just swap the shell which would save you time and give you a source for spare parts, from the first unit.
From the item description: "this unit runs slow and I recommend it only for parts".
If he repowers with one Stanton drive he will be lucky to get the locomotive to pull more than a few cars. If he repowers with two he'll be right at $170 plus shipping ... and then have to make all the modifications to fit them. That seems a steep price to get rid of gear towers.
Wonder how often the Hobbytown 'bespoke' chassis (or an engine containing one) shows up on the 'Bay?
I'm old enough to have had a Tyco GP20, instead I still have my B&O F7. I haven't even tested it on a DC track I have since I got back into MR 3 or 4 years ago.
At the time I thought it was poorly detailed and it hasn't improved with age. I keep it only because I inherited the Pack Rat gene. I am not attached to it and hope my kids don't spend any money on it.
Nwot my Steward undec. F3 that I painted 25 years ago and never finished detailing, got a DCC decoder this weekend, glazing and handgrabs last week. I hope they keep that one.
Henry
COB Potomac & Northern
Shenandoah Valley
Yep, Henry the Stewart is many steps above the the Mantua/Tyco that the OP has.
My thought is, he puts it all back together, knowing that it's running, and displays it, in honor of his dad.
I could go on in detail how this shell fits perfectly on an Athearn GP35, but I'll wait until he respondes.
BerndI don't know if I would call this fix easy but I rebuilt a couple of Tyco GP20's that have the "pancake motors".
Bernd, I seen your post about your rebuild in MRH. The loco that the OP has, and I have, does not have the typical "pancake" motor. It's part of the power truck, sits parellel to the truck, and has the worm gear on each end of the shaft to power the truck gears.
Hello again,
Is there anywhere I can purchase replacement brushes for my engine? I've been able to find power torque brushes, but not for the old Mantua motor.
Also, if my engine fails again, would the shell fit the chassis of a newer Mantua GP20? They still produce them, but I'd assume the current design is quite different from the old ones.
I have not seen one of the "newer" engines at all but I gave the old Gimbal power truck and the B end truck to a club member who had been given a Durango GP20 and it went straight in.
I don't think there would have been much reason for Mantua to have changed the tooling for their latest offerings and a cursory check of images on the net seems to show the same mounting holes... so check it out!
I don't know anything about the "newer" Tyco GP20s, but they might have the "pancake" style motor, you'll have to check it out. My experience is that the motor you have in it now is better than any of the pancake style motors.
I'll toss this out there, I have the same Tyco/Mantua as you, as I mentioned in a previous post, and I left it out so when you chimed back in again, it would be an easy reach to help you along. So I have been looking around.
I found if you do a Google search for your model, among the many things that will come up, is links to a Tyco user forum, and in those threads, some interesting reading about the GP20.
Everything, and I do mean everything, is riveted together, as you have found out. Many have cut or ground off the rivets in order to get access to the many parts, and replaced them with small machine bolts, when reassembling, as I mentioned with your question on changing the couplers.
There is another thing I discovered, the chassie of an Athearn GP35 will practically drop in your shell. The only thing stopping it is the two screw lugs, one on each side of the body shell, where the weight screws on. They would have to be completely removed, including the area up inside the shell, so the inside of the shell is smooth.
Of course if you did this, you would then be commited to using the Athearn chassie and drive parts. That would be your call, as you would have to buy the chassie, along with the motor and such, and wouldn't be able to use your original truck, and motor again. You'll have to check the auction/sale sights and see whats out there. Typically on Ebay, you can find an Athearn GP35 for $40 or less.
mbinsewi Bernd I don't know if I would call this fix easy but I rebuilt a couple of Tyco GP20's that have the "pancake motors". Bernd, I seen your post about your rebuild in MRH. The loco that the OP has, and I have, does not have the typical "pancake" motor. It's part of the power truck, sits parellel to the truck, and has the worm gear on each end of the shaft to power the truck gears. Mike.
Bernd I don't know if I would call this fix easy but I rebuilt a couple of Tyco GP20's that have the "pancake motors".
Ah, you must mean this type of motor then.
I made two repowered versions of this one. Version 1
And version 2. Much more complicated conversion.
Probably more than what the OP would want to do. The first version fits in the shell except the truck dosen't swivel far enough for tight curves. The second version wouldn't fit at all. The first version does fit this little guy.
BerndAh, you must mean this type of motor then.
Yep, that's the motor, and as far as I'm concerned, this motor runs better, with more control, than the pancake motor you replaced.
I guess it's up to how far the OP wants to go.
Nice work Bernd!
mbinsewi Bernd Ah, you must mean this type of motor then. Yep, that's the motor, and as far as I'm concerned, this motor runs better, with more control, than the pancake motor you replaced. I guess it's up to how far the OP wants to go. Nice work Bernd! Mike.
Bernd Ah, you must mean this type of motor then.
Thanks for the kind words Mike.
Actually I screwed up. It's the second version that fits the shell. That's why there is a second version. The first didn't fit. Going to use the first version to build a boxcab engine. The second version gear reduction was so slow I actually had to use a bigger pully on the motor. This engine creeps along pretty slow.
My F units had that sort of motor. Didn't need a sound system, it had an interesting growl to it right out of the box.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
Trainzguy2472 Hello again, Is there anywhere I can purchase replacement brushes for my engine? I've been able to find power torque brushes, but not for the old Mantua motor. Also, if my engine fails again, would the shell fit the chassis of a newer Mantua GP20? They still produce them, but I'd assume the current design is quite different from the old ones.
Found this on Ebay. Purchased a set myself for the work I am doing on my PT motors.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Tyco-Power-Torque-2-Brush-Brush-Spring-See-Description-for-Postage-Charges/191807294011?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649