Hello Everyone,
My name is Vic, and I am getting back into an old passion of mine, Trains!!!! Everything is so differant now from when I was building a layout for my Son many years ago. I'm really excited about getting back into this hobby that has always been near and dear to my heart. Anyways, back to the subject at hand; I love building models but have never used an airbrush, I just finished building a two track HO girder bridge, and the detail was awesome, but it took me forever to hand paint it, and I haven't even attempted to weather it yet. So my question is, for a newbie, would it be better to get a dual action gravity feed, of a siphon feed brush. I have a pancake compressor I can use, so I just need to purchase a good airbrush kit. Looking forward to joining in on this forum, and I hope you all don't mind a million questions.
Thanks,
Vic
to the forum
There was a recent thread on airbrushes and someone recommended a gravity feed. I would be spilling paint everywhere with one of those. I have a single action badger that I bought in the 80's and it works good enough for me.
You do need to thin most paints to use in an airbrush. You also need to clean your airbrush unless you are buying a new one for each paint job. You also need to practice with your airbrush, before you shoot your brass cab forward as a first project.
All that said it's easier than painting neked ladies on a Harley gas tank with an underling $5,000 paint job.
Henry
COB Potomac & Northern
Shenandoah Valley
There are three types of air brushes within the common community, a bottle fed, side fed (also Siphon), and gravity fed (Names can vary but are mostly the same). The bottle fed is usually for small time projects and is often not used for important things such as model railroading, as it tends to block up the small canister opening and its paint stream can be sporadic. Side fed airbrushes utilize a needle and a small cup which sucks in the paint from the side. The paint on a sie fed passes through a few nozzles and off of a fine point needle before being sprayed unlike the bottle fed. The gravity fed utilizes a small cup on top of the brush, and is the most prominant one when it comes to fine detailing, as a steady stream of paint can be supplied and it is rather easy to matinance; it also uses the same multi nozzle method as the side fed (to my experiences)
It is definantly worth it to purchase a dual action, as I've found it to be much more effective than just spraying and adjusting your distance or preassure. Though this will increase the price of brushes, it will still be much more efficient and produce better results.
As said before, the bottle fed type is sporadic, as in most cases the paint comes out a small nozzle in the top of the bottle and is sprayed out (usually, all the ones I've seen use this method). The Gravity and Side fed brushes are similar, though the gravity fed offers slightly better performance (I personally use the Side fed as its cheaper and offers about the same detail) I would not recommend the bottle fed, as they just dont seem to function right, but the side or gravity fed are very good.
In the end, it comes down to either the gravity or side fed, unless you are really wanting a cheap option (and a cheap job at that). I would recommend wither the gravity or side fed, as both are similar in performance, though prices are drastically different.
Price wise, the bottle fed can be found anywhere from $20-$100 at most craft stores, the sie fed is anywhere from $60-$150+, and the gravity fed is usually $200+ (These are all based on what I've personally seen and can vary widely depending on your location).
I think this covers most of the brushes, but I could still be missing something
Personally I use rattle cans for the painting part even though I own all the stuff for air brushing (exception being engines), but as for weathering, if using paint to weather, then air brushing is the way to go. Dual action are harder to use but give more control and of course everthing has a leaning curve, buy lots of very very cheap cars for practice.
RR_MelIf you want to experiment a bit Harbor Freight has some cheapo ripoffs, single and dual action. My main single action now is the Harbor Freight $10 airbrush, easy to clean and does a very nice job. The $10 model doesn’t come with a super flexible hose so I would recommend their 10’ nylon braided air hose.
I will second Mel's recommendation of the Harbor Freight Tools airbrushes. Even if you think you'd like to buy a name brand unit, keep in mind that all airbrushes have a learning curve and you are going to make mistakes with and/or damage any airbrush. Why not make all those mistakes/damage on a $10 airbrush instead of a $100 airbrush? Like Mel and myself, you might find that you'll get great results with the HFT single action airbrush and not need to buy a "better" model. If you still find you need a "better" airbrush, your experience with the $10 unit will save you a lot of grief when you do buy the "better" airbrush.
Hornblower
I have a different opinon on buying a cheapo air-brush......save Your money. Learn on a good one from the get go. Lot easier to learn on something that can give You great results in the beginning......not just so so jobs...can be frustrating and maybe turn You off. I have been painting cars and trucks professionally for a number of yrs. and when I started using an airbrush, I started with a cheapo and found it to be junk, compared to what can be done with a much better one and learning was easier. I also used some Badgers.....they are good, but I prefer a Paasche, for about the past 50 yrs. now. I started out with a single action H-model with a number 3 tip and still have that same brush today......never had any problems at all with it. I also have some dual action VL Paasche....but My go to is the H-model. In the link is the one I would recommend for You......It is out of stock now......but You can't beat the price. I also use a 4gal pancake compressor used for nail guns. Have a 60gal 6horse 220volt Sandborn in the garage. For other work.
http://www.hobbylinc.com/paasche-h-single-action-hobby-kit-airbrush-and-airbrush-set-2000h
A couple of projects I painted with the H-model airbrush:
HO scale scratch/bash double track lift bridge:
All photos may be clicked on for larger view.
Tamiya 1/14 scale RC truck/trailer kit:
All these 1/87 scale trucks/cars......just a small portion of over a 100 finished:
Painted My 49 Ford that I restored in My garage with My Pro Guns in the late 80's:
Good Luck, to You!
Frank
zstripeI have a different opinon on buying a cheapo air-brush......save Your money. Learn on a good one from the get go. Lot easier to learn on something that can give You great results in the beginning......not just so so jobs...can be frustrating and maybe turn You off... ...I prefer a Paasche....
...I prefer a Paasche....
I'm with Frank on this: I was painting for a local hobbyshop (brush painting diesel models of a local prototype favourite, for which no proper paint colours or lettering were available), and after doing several dozen, the shop owner suggested an airbrush, and gave me a good deal on a Paasche VL double action airbrush.
I use it with half-ounce PollyS or Model Master bottles, or full-size Floquil and PollyScale bottles - never use the colour cup, as it's too small and needs to be cleaned every time you change colours. If I'm painting 3 or 4 dozen cars, or multi-colour locomotives, I want the paint pre-mixed to the colours needed, so the bottles are much more convenient (good for storing pre-mixed and/or pre-thinned colours, too).
Learn to use it before you start painting anything of value. I practiced by getting cardboard boxes from the supermarket (free!), then flattening them and painting on the unlettered inside. There's an exercise booklet that comes with the VL which will teach you control of the tool, and its capabilities. Once you learn those, graduate to painting train stuff.I've been using my VL for almost 40 years.
I use a Wagner rotary compressor, powered by a 3/4hp motor, a set-up built many years ago by my dad....
It has no air tank, as the air output is constant (non-pulsing). However, it does run constantly when you're painting. I doubt that you can find one, anyway, so go with Frank's recommendation.
Wayne
zstripeI have a different opinon on buying a cheapo air-brush......save Your money.
I agree
zstripeI started out with a single action H-model with a number 3 tip and still have that same brush today......never had any problems at all with it.
I double agree. I also have a VL-S and recently picked up the latest model Talon.
Still, for 95% of my airbrush projects I use my 25-year-old model H. Although I did buy a new #3 needle and tip a few years ago. Another advantage of buying an established brand — parts availability.
Cheers, Ed
The only difference between my HF one and my expensive name brand one is that the expensive name brand one will do a finer line.
For general painting of models, my HF one works just fine. Because of this, it gets used much more often than the expensive branded one.
For a deal on a more expensive name brand one, find one at a Hobby Lobby and wait until they have a 15% or higher coupon, as they work on the airbrushes as well.
Ricky W.
HO scale Proto-freelancer.
My Railroad rules:
1: It's my railroad, my rules.
2: It's for having fun and enjoyment.
3: Any objections, consult above rules.
Thanks for all your help guys! I have used full size gravity feed guns for shooting a 67 Camaro, so I am s fan of good equipment. So I like the idea of learning on good equipment. I am looking at a Paasche TS-SET Talon, and the Paasche Vision. Just need to decide on bottle feed or gravity feed. Decisions, Decisions, lol
I purchased a gravity fed, dual action air brush with compressor for $150 on amazon. This is my first airbrush. I have been practiving on cardboard and I had an old Rix loading dock that I wasnt using any longer...practiced on that as well. I think the the kit was a great deal.
OK, pulled the trigger on this https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Paasche-TG-SET-Double-Action-Gravity-Feed-Airbrush/142573335896?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2648, seemed like a good deal. Now I need to ask what is a good paint to start painting my structures? I have always used Testors to hand paint all my models, can I use this same paint in an airbrush?
Vallejo makes a good airbrush paint...but like I said, I am just starting out. I am certain folks here would have better information.
vicburn454 Thanks for all your help guys! I have used full size gravity feed guns for shooting a 67 Camaro, so I am s fan of good equipment. So I like the idea of learning on good equipment. I am looking at a Paasche TS-SET Talon, and the Paasche Vision. Just need to decide on bottle feed or gravity feed. Decisions, Decisions, lol
I would suggest the bottle feed. The Paasche bottles come in 1oz,3oz so You would not need to clean it when using a color, like You would with a gravity fed one. You would just unscrew the cap with feed on top, stick in bottle with cleaner in it and put a plain cap on the bottle with the unused paint and save for future use. I have at least a hundred bottles of all different colors I mix and stock for various paint jobs. I also use nothing but Automotive general purpose lacquer thinner to clean My brushes, no matter what kind of paint I am using. I run the brush in a bottle of lacquer thinner at full open and also back-flush at the same time. You should already know how to back-flush, If You do not.........when You have the air brush connected to the bottle with thinner in it......press trigger at full open and shoot at a scrape piece of paper/cardboard until clear thinner comes out......stop pressing trigger, put a piece of paper towel and hold it against the air brush tip......press trigger until bubbles form in the bottle, but be careful, some thinner will come out the air vent in cap. What that does is clean out any dried paint in brush and feed tube an shoots it back in the bottle. You would be surprized at how many people don't know that and complain that the brush is not working right, but they just cleaned it.......
Good Luck!
vicburn454So I like the idea of learning on good equipment. I am looking at a Paasche TS-SET Talon,
I recently bought a Talon. It is a very capable airbrush but my only use with this model is very fine detail work and weathering. Attempting to paint, say, a structure wall or larger area it probably won't lay the paint down fast enough and your leading edge will be dry before you can make the second pass.
That's why I keep the model H handy for the times when I have large surfaces to paint.
When I do use a gravity feed with a small color cup I can quickly change colors using a little Vallejo Airbrush Cleaner:
https://tinyurl.com/y9c3ldef
Along with the cleaning bottle where you can shoot the spent paint/cleaner into a collection jar:
https://tinyurl.com/yaq88oud
There are several brands of these jars. You don't need anything fancy.
Good Luck, Ed
When the MR gang are doing their videos on painting, they wear a respirator and use a spray booth. I spray outside and wear a respirator always with solvent based paints and not as much as I should with acrylic.
Don't airbursh in your basement or garage without something in the way of protection.
For those who asked......You can use any type of paint in an airbrush, with the correct tip and thinner.
I do not use air brush ready paint.....In My opinion it's a big waste of money....most You still have to thin and you wind up with less actual paint for the money.
Take Care!
zstripeI do not use air brush ready paint.....In My opinion it's a big waste of money....most You still have to thin and you wind up with less actual paint for the money.
And — there's those times when you need to brush-paint the same color for touch-up work or painting trim work and such.
Many of the "pre-thinned" paints don't cover very well in these instances.
Regards, Ed
gmpullman zstripe I do not use air brush ready paint.....In My opinion it's a big waste of money....most You still have to thin and you wind up with less actual paint for the money. And — there's those times when you need to brush-paint the same color for touch-up work or painting trim work and such. Many of the "pre-thinned" paints don't cover very well in these instances. Regards, Ed
zstripe
One additional hint I have to pass on to anyone using paints in small bottles —
Do yourself a favor and pick up a bag of these small pipette droppers to use for transfering paint and thinners:
https://tinyurl.com/yckhb4cb
They eliminate spills and paint running down the sides of jars. I'm amazed at seeing so many "pros" demonstrating airbrush techniques and they are slopping paint by not using careful transfer techniques. Keep a taller empty jar handy to stand them up in when you're done so the paint doesn't get all over your workspace.
They are also helpful at measuring ratios easy since you can accurately gauge volumes by using the scale markings.
I have an inexpensive that I bought years ago from a company that I think is no longer in business, along with one of their compressors. After getting the hang of using it, I bought a couple of Paasche 200-H's; one with a medium tip, the other with a fine tip. After getting my first one, I asked myself, "Why did I wait so long?"
I think I was like a lot of modelers, intimidated at first. But, once I got the hang of it, the only thing I use rattle cans for is priming, gray for general modeling and red automotive primer for brick structures.
Marlon
See pictures of the Clinton-Golden Valley RR
Could you guys please incude directions about using a double acction brush as a single action? This would give the OP some flexibility and I'd like to try using my Iwata dbl. action as a single action when learning to lst use it.
Thanks! Jim
Raised on the Erie Lackawanna Mainline- Supt. of the Black River Transfer & Terminal R.R.
Spin the thumb wheel all the way closed on the top near the trigger, pushing it back to full open.
Then just depress it to activate the air, and the paint will flow with it.
Dual action airbrushes, you depress the trigger for air, pull back for paint.
When you adjust the thumb wheel to lock the trigger in the pulled back position, the air is all you control, just like a regular single action brush.
I’m a bit late on this thread, but this might be useful. Hobby Lobby carries Neo by Iwata. With the 40% off coupon, you can get a really good dual action gravity feed airbrush for 50 bucks. And heres the thing: get a dual action. Just don’t “use” the extra action until you have some practice. Pressing the trigger all the way down gives you full airflow—easy to do, and same net effect as a single action brush. And there are very few things in this hobby that require the capacity of a siphon feed brush, other than priming, and maybe painting rails. Once you get to that volume of paint, rattle cans are just fine, IMoP.
Back in my post-school days, I did a bit of commercial illustration (http://www.mistymountaingraphics.com/). That‘s not a plug, I haven’t done illustration for many, many years nor will I in the future. It’s just an online gallery (about half brush/airbrush, half digital). Point is, I used to have an arsenal of high end Iwata airbrushes, and for this hobby, the little Neo does everything just fine.
As far as compressors, I got very lucky while I was in tech school. A company misprinted a price in a catalog, I happened to be the first one to order from that catalog, and I got a $1200 medium capacity silent compressor for 400 bucks (this is 1989 dollars). They honored the price printed. Thing is quieter than my mini-fridge. And 28 or whatever Year’s later still runs like a charm.
Thank you ricktrains and Drum Guy! Say, Drum Guy, I'm an ex professional musician (bassist mostly) and if you would care to PM me, I'd be interested to hear what it is you drum to.