Questions of a Time Traveller from 1987

[BNSF4ever]

I grew up dabbling in HO model railroading several times before ditching that as a teenager for N Scale. I last put away my N Scale rolling stock in 1987 and have largely ignored model and real railroading since then.

Recently, I became inspired to give the hobby a try again as an adult. But model--and real--railroading have certainly changed in 17 years. I've done my best to read up and get refreshed but I have several nagging questions about model and real railroading. I have decided to post here as most are HO Scale related but there are also some real railroading question that I hope no one will mind me asking here. If anyone can take the time to answer some or all of these questions, I'd sure appreciate it!

1. The first thing that strikes me about the hobby is the dominance now of knuckle couplers. Sure, I remember Kadee back in the 80s but I had a 20 dollar allowance and there wasn't much ca***o go around for such luxuries. That said, I am still not sure how these things work. The guy at the train store says you just pu***he cars together. I was playing tonight with a KATO locomotive and an Athearn dummy locomotive (Both had plastic knuckle couplers) on a few pieces of True Track. There didn't seem to be any "magical" connection. The two couplers did attach in a way, but I did not need a pin or a magnet to separate them. Just lifting the dummy off the track was enough to separate them. Is this how they work or am I doing something wrong? Would Bachmann E-Z Mates work well with Kadees or other knockoff plastic brands? Finally, the guy at the store said plastic couplers don't work when hauling long trains. Is there a rule of thumb for how many cars plastics can support?

2. I have read that this new Code 83 (I think that is it) track does not support HO scale rolling stock that is 20 years or older. Is that true? Is that why the Rivarossi, Con-Cor, and older Athearn stock is so cheap now?

3. Whether it was 1983, 1987, or 2004 I have always wanted to model the suburban Chicago METRA BNSF line. However, in any year, it seems the model companies just don't want to support METRA. I know Walthers has the Pullman Standard bi-levels and the F40PH, but there is no F40PHM-2 or MP36. I wrote Athearn and they said there are no plans to make an HO MP36. Why not? Surelly it would make sense to have an MP36 to pair with Athearn's Caltrain Bombadier cars. Does anyone out there know of a specialized company that is producing more up to date Chicago rolling stock? What kind of commuter cars are now being run on the BNSF line there and are there any equivalents in HO scale?

4. On a side note, it's been over 20 years since I've been to Naperville and Aurora, Illinois, but I have many questions and if anyone out there is a local to that area, I'd appreciate your getting in contact with me directly at [e-mail].

5. Another frustrating thing has been Amtrak and their continuing Phase evolutions. I personally saw nothing wrong with Phase III. When getting back in the hobby, I decided to go back to HO instead of N as it seemed there was a bigger selection of passenger car stock in HO than N. That said, KATO has produced a few Phase V P42s but Athearn has mostly just done Phase III and Phase IV. There IS a Phase V in the Wlathers Trainline set but that's it. Athearn wrote me that Walthers have the exclusive rights to Phase V in HO Scale. Is Amtrak signing licensing deals? And why would Walthers want to hurt modelers by just producing two road numbers (one of which is now out of production)? How come Microscale hasn't rushed out a Phase V decal sheet?

6. There are plenty of HO Phase IV Superliners but now it seems Amtrak has a Phase V scheme. From what I saw of the Coast Starlight the other night, it looked very much like Phase IV (though it was dark) except for a red line (that was reflective) on the bottom of the cars. Am I oversimplying the change or is this correct? Does anyone know of Walthers is going to release a Phase V Superliner or someone will put out the correct decals?

7. Has anyone modeled an HO Scale Amtrak F40PH non-powered cab control unit?

8. I remember in my N Scale layout, I came across my first experience with short circuits and having to insulate sections of track and running connectors out to them. Is there any good way or rule of thumb in looking at a planned layout and determining if or how you would have to insulate sections? As a 16-year old, I found out by trial and error but as an adult, I don't have as much time for that any more.

9. I am buliding upt a lot of passenger car stock (85') and modern locomotives, all of which seem to require easy curves. My planned layout is very simple. Because of space, it will be 12 x 8 with three ovals (to represent the BNSF three track line out of Chicago) with a few turnouts here and there to connect the three. It's not ambitious I know but I want to avoid derailments at all costs. The radius of the curved tracks for the oval is 24. Is this sufficient to run HO SD70MACs and Superliner cars?

Now come the real world rail questions:

10. I went and met the Coast Starlight the other night to get an idea of its consist. I found it was largely Superliner II. I know Amtrak still has substantial Superliner I numbers. Where have they gone? Or is the Starlight just an anomaly?

11. Now that smoking is totally banned on Amtrak, what becomes of the Coach Smokers Superliners that Walthers modeled?

12. Is there a website that is current and lists VIA Rail's rolling stock roster?

13. Finally, I was reading Greg McDonnell's Trains locomotive guide and he writes that AC traction is the most revolutionary development in locomotives since the advent of diesels. Having majored in history, technical things are sometimes out of my grasp, but can someone explain to my level just why was this so revolutionary?

If you've read through this entire list of questions, I want to thank you. Any assistance you can provide will be welcome.

[IRONROOSTER]

I can't answer all the questions, but I'll take on a few.
1. Kadees and clones work by pushing together to join. Uncoupling is accomplished by stopping the train with the couplers over a magnet either fastend between the rails or a bigger one under the track (Kadee sells both). Then reverse slightly to put slack in the couplers then pull forward. The couplers part and if you then back up the couplers are pulled to the sides by the magnet so that they then don't re engage and you can pu***he uncoupled car to where you want it..

Some issues with Kadees, Coupling on sharp curves can be a problem, the clones seem to have more of a problem with this. Clones and Kadees don't always mix well. Using permanent magnets on the mainline can lead to unwanted uncoupling if the train slows down going over them (can be rekieved with electric magnetic uncoupler (at greater expense and installation hassle). Clones don't seem to last as long Kadees based on reports on this forum and elsewhere.

2. Code 83 and older rolling stock. The problem with older rolling stock is flange size. If you have deep flanges you can either replace the wheels or use code 100. For locomotive wheels you may be able to turn them down (remove them form the loco first since you don't want filings in the motor) to work. Not all older rolling stock has this problem so check it first,

3-7. I don't know

8. Get one of Kalmbach's books on wiring your model railroad. Also see this section of the NMRA's site http://www.nmra.org/beginner/ for some good information.

9. This page on NMRA's site http://www.nmra.org/standards/rp-11.html has recommended curve. While a lot of HO equipment is made to take sharper curves it doesn't mean they will run well. I would recomment that you consider 32" radius curves.

10-12 I don't know.

Welcome back to model railroading. [#welcome][#welcome]

Enjoy
Paul

[jsoderq]

Too many questions in one post but I can answer a couple. Amtrak has been licensing for more than ten years. At times the can be persnickity and other times they don't seem to care. The models with wheels you will have trouble with were made overseas and have very deep flanges - mostly older Rivarossi, Lima and some others. Not a problem with american m,ade stuff unless you get way back to old Varney, Gilbert and the like (50's - 60's stuff)
Don't know what an mp36 is. Maybe its just some modification of a standard loco. At any rate, because it wouldn't sell very well because of limited application I wouldn't expect anyone to make it.
24" radius for the stuff you want to run is really at or below the minimum. Larger raduius will definitely work better and certainly be better looking.
Amtrak is so strapped for equipment they run virtually everything they have thats runable.
The AC loco thing is very technical and not all railroads are sold on it yet. Mostly it has to do with efficiency and durability. It actually has a higher cost when new. There are websites with info including GE but you have to have time to read it all.

[challenger3802]

QUOTE: Originally posted by: BNSF4ever

2. I have read that this new Code 83 (I think that is it) track does not support HO scale rolling stock that is 20 years or older. Is that true? Is that why the Rivarossi, Con-Cor, and older Athearn stock is so cheap now?

Where can I get these - Rivarossi, Con-Cor, and older Athearn - old stocks cheaply?

Ian

[Anonymous]

Question 1-

Knuckle Couplers were once ruled by Kaydee until the patent expired. Now everyone who wants to can make "Similar" couplers. I once had to replace horn and hooks with kaydees in addition to the expense of the rolling stock. Now some include clones with the rolling stock.. however, I maintain a stockpile of Kaydee's (about 20-50) because the clones will fail at some point in the future.

Question 2

Rolling stock made some time ago have deep flanges or does not confirm to current standards today. I say this is kind of not-a-problem... because of the abundance of fine metal wheelsets. A box of Intermountain, Protos (they dont sell bulk, my favorite wheels) and other wheelset makers have made sure that there are good quality wheels ready to go. For Athearn Blue Box, Accurail, Walthers etc etc they are adequate. Similar to couplers, manufactors are beginning to include metal wheelsets in the offerings.

Question 3

I feel your pain, perhaps a careful search of Chicago area may yeild a shop that is able to produce these models you seek. Chicago is a rail hub of the USA and I think there has to be some one who has the ability and the resources to commercially create these models as either a retail offering or a custom order.

Question 4

I have dealt with Aurora in Trucking over the years and let me tell you.. it is BUSY. I dont know too much about Naperville.

Question 5

I cannot tell you about Amtrack, however some of my projects used Microscale decals... for example I built a small Dominos Sugar Fleet of tank and Covered hoppers only to find Athearn releasing Tanks in ready to run (Better than my adequate workbench skills I may add) in the Dominos roadname shortly after finding out the supply has dried up from Microscale.

Road numbers are in very short supply, I have several peices of rolling stock that have the same road number simply because there are not any availible. Maybe someday I will renumber them but they to me, are a pain to do.

Question 7 amd 8 I will leave to others.

Question 9.

I plan a 24" radius as the minimum however anything bigger always helps your models to perform better (and look better too) You may want to let one of those mains go and use the extra room to go from 24 to 26".

Question 10-12 I leave to someone else

Question 13...

I am going to proclaim my absolute ignorance and very dense inability to know anything. Here I think the technology required to get AC power to do the work that DC has done for a long time is amazing. Think of AC power as a locomotive with very big batteries and a series of switches that are fast enough to keep the power to the rails in a controlled manner.

They are also among some of the most powerful giants ever to see the rails. I have a feeling that 14,000 Hp and beyond is possible with one unit and a booster instead of a lashup of 3-6 desiels driving DC power.

What is awesome is Steam Technology on the 40's and 50's rivaled the power of some of these modern locomotives.

[Texas Zepher]

QUOTE: Originally posted by BNSF4ever

I grew up dabbling in HO model railroading several times before ditching that as a teenager for N Scale. I last put away my N Scale rolling stock in 1987 and have largely ignored model and real railroading since then.

I did that too. Switched back to HO in 1983.

QUOTE:
1. dominance now of knuckle couplers. ... Would Bachmann E-Z Mates work well with Kadees or other knockoff plastic brands?

In short Kadee's patents expired. But working with and working well are two different things. Having several thousands of cars to convert I bought samples (at least 20 each) of each type. I always return to Kadee. In fact, when I purchase a new car I still allways plan on converting it to Kadee, just like in the old days.

QUOTE:
Finally, the guy at the store said plastic couplers don't work when hauling long trains. Is there a rule of thumb for how many cars plastics can support?
[\quote]
There was an article about this in Model Railroader a few years ago. They stressed each one until it streched out of shape. They then converted that to number of cars. Sorry, I don't have the issue number. Perhaps someone else will recall it.

QUOTE:
2. I have read that this new Code 83 (I think that is it) track does not support HO scale rolling stock that is 20 years or older. Is that true? Is that why the Rivarossi, Con-Cor, and older Athearn stock is so cheap now?
[\quote]
No, only the older rolling stock that had the really large "cookie cutter" flanges. I've never had any trouble with old Athearn on code 83 track. Older Athearn is so cheap now because everything else has gotten so much better in the detail / painting categories. If you want to fill a yard with rugged equipment blue box Athearn is hard to beat.

QUOTE:
8. I remember in my N Scale layout, I came across my first experience with short circuits and having to insulate sections of track and running connectors out to them. Is there any good way or rule of thumb in looking at a planned layout and determining if or how you would have to insulate sections?

Yes, trace the path of a locomotive noting the forward direction. If the locomotive can get back to any point and be facing the opposite direction you will need insulating sections. Generally this will be if the track is in a triangle shape (called a wye) or a single track to a loop (the loop switches back into its starting point). Boy this is hard to explain in a few words. If you are tracing the layout and discovered the loco facing the opposite direction mark off the track where it turned. Continue doing this until the locomotive cannot change directions. At that point it would need no insulation. So then add the blocked out sections back in one at a time. if indeed the loco can reverse then that section will need to be insulated. Really easier to do than it is to explain.

9. I am buliding upt a lot of passenger car stock (85') and modern locomotives, ... The radius of the curved tracks for the oval is 24. Is this sufficient to run HO SD70MACs and Superliner cars?

Yeahbut, 30" would be a whole lot better, and at 36" they would begin to not look so kinked.

13. Finally, I was reading Greg McDonnell's Trains locomotive guide and he writes that AC traction is the most revolutionary development in locomotives since the advent of diesels. Having majored in history, technical things are sometimes out of my grasp, but can someone explain to my level just why was this so revolutionary?

Several things. 1. Basically the frequency is used to control the speed of the engine as such there is no electricty wasted in control circuits. 2. There is much more control over things like wheel slipage. 3. Pulsating electricity (and multiple phased) is always more powerful and efficient than direct current. As a history person you are probably familiar with the the Edison (DC) vs. Tesla (AC) power struggle of the late 19th century. Same concept only for trains. And actually that brings up a final point, this isn't really new we are just rediscovering something old. Tesla designed an AC locomotive sometime in the 1920's as I recall. As with most Tesla inventions he was way too far ahead of his time and largely ignored. While it is not documented, I am guessing he was planning to power it with wireless power transmission (Colorado Springs Experiments). Imagine real electric trains with no third rail, hot rail, or cantery!

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