Athearn BB Locos: Coffee Grinders?

[Anonymous]

Nice to see some posative comments about Athern loco's. I have quite a few, and they all run excellent. They do lack some detailing, but who can see the missing details when an engine is running flat out on the Pike anyway. The only people noticing the missing details are fellow modelers, and I don't think any of them would dare criticise.
Thats my 2 cents. Cudo's to Athern.

[BRAKIE]

Don,The motor is not nor has never been the problem. Witness the smooth running newer RTR locomotives with the new drive shafts.These are smooth and quiet from the box and uses the same motor as the BB locomotives.
Now the added weight cuts down on the shell chatter which BTW accounts for a lot of the noise.The noise is also cause by the way the body vibrates on the frame due to the way Athearn mounts the shells.
Don,I been using and fine tuning Athearn locos for years..There's very little I can't tell you about 'em.They still remain among my favorites.
BTW don't over look the older P2K Geeps use the same motor as Athearn along with the drive...

[Virginian]

I have 8 diesels. 6 are Athearn, and two of those were bought to power a dummy and the gear rations had been changed so that didn't happen. So I let kids run the "spare" ones. As far as I am concerned, they are the standard for simplicity and reliability. Some are noisy, at least at first. If it bothers you, it can be fixed, if not, who cares, they run forever.

[AntonioFP45]

Don, Brakie.

Both of you offer intelligent points, even though they're opposed.

I can say that all of my Athearns are noise makers. I'm currently working on fine tuning two U33Bs. The FP45s will be next.

To quiet the trucks I'll be using the Pearl Drops method. I'll be replacing the motors with Mashima units as I've read so many good points about them. For me, if I can lower the amp draw as low as possible, so much the better it will be for DCC/Sound decoders.

The U-Boats and FP45s are the only Athearns I'm going to update for DCC. They do offer the advantage of being more spacious to accommodate DCC equipment and speakers. I'm going through the extra efforts because a growling locomotive will detract from the sound.

The rest of my Athearns I'll be selling, trading, or giving away. Athearn has been discontinuing a lot of the BB units simply because demand is much lower now than even 10 years ago. At every train show or swap meet I've attended, vendors will have "oodles" of Athearn BB locos, new and used for sale.

And yes, no denying, those old Athearns will run for years! My 25 year old Milwaukee SD9 has never been serviced and will still take off like a Trans Am!

I don't consider myself a "Rivet Counter", but I very much like the appearance of the P2K, Kato, and Atlas units. Plus, P2K units can be purchased for almost the same price as Athearn BB units.

Cheers!

[BRAKIE]

AntonioFP45,Would you be interested in seeing the way I tune up my Athearns? If so e mail me.
Cheers!

[AntonioFP45]

QUOTE: Originally posted by BRAKIE

AntonioFP45,Would you be interested in seeing the way I tune up my Athearns? If so e mail me.
Cheers!

Sure thing! Will do!

[espeefoamer]

I have a number of Athearn BB diesels.They may be a little noisy,but they run great, don't cost an arm and a leg and are reliable runners.

[Anonymous]

I like what everyone has to say about the Athearn BB locos. I have a fleet of locos from most of the manufactures and for the most part the BB locos do the job even better than the high priced ones. I have 150 + locos and run most on a couple of club layouts where details are not that important ,but surivabilty is. As a rule at both clubs if it is on the rails it can be run by anyone operating so the details seem to get beat off the shells anyway. I do have many super detailed locos that I do run myself and are used for "show", but mainly if I own it I'll run it, and with a little work the ole blueboxes are the best. One thing that I found to be very helpfull is to change the wheel sets out with NSL nickel wheels
Greg

[Anonymous]

I love the Athearn BB's there great for detailing and fun to run. I've got 15 of em as well as a few BLI's etc. The only ones I have that are excessively loud are the Dash 9's and I'm thinking of remotoring. Is there any ones which are recommended that "drop" right in?
I've also had some cracked wheel gears on the SD40's, but I think it's kinda fun pulling them apart to replace parts.

[METRO]

The only times I've ever heard an Athearn really grind was when it either needed lube or a part was out of place. Other than that, my Athearn fleet runs just a bit louder than my P2Ks and about as loud as my Stewarts (not the Kato powered ones mind you.)

As for the motors, they may vibrate a bit, but not anything that is overly of note. Those that find the growl and vibration to be a problem should stick to their brass and high-end Katos. For those of us living within a budget to our modeling, I'd take a superdetailed Athearn any day.

Besides there is something to be said for doing it yourself, gives you a great sense of pride.

~METRO

[Anonymous]

I like what everyone has to say about the Athearn BB locos. I have a fleet of locos from most of the manufactures and for the most part the BB locos do the job even better than the high priced ones. I have 150 + locos and run most on a couple of club layouts where details are not that important ,but surivabilty is. As a rule at both clubs if it is on the rails it can be run by anyone operating so the details seem to get beat off the shells anyway. I do have many super detailed locos that I do run myself and are used for "show", but mainly if I own it I'll run it, and with a little work the ole blueboxes are the best. One thing that I found to be very helpfull is to change the wheel sets out with NSL nickel wheels
Greg

[AntonioFP45]

Received a tip from a friend that owns a large fleet of Athearns. When lubricating gears and bearings, go with a grease rather than oil as the grease will have a much longer life cycle.

Yes oil doesn't gunk up as grease can, however, persons using oil on Athearns they run frequently will find that they may have to re-lube sooner.

[johnkruse]

I kinda like the OLD Atheran diesels; the ones with the rubber band drive. You got a poor mans sound system for free if you tacked a heavy load to 'em!

[Don Gibson]

QUOTE: Originally posted by BRAKIE

Don,The motor is not nor has never been the problem. Witness the smooth running newer RTR locomotives with the new drive shafts.These are smooth and quiet from the box and uses the same motor as the BB locomotives.

SORRY Larry, but their motors have never been their strong point. Cheap, yes.
Motors in RTR equipment pull 0.5 amps and Blue Box ones were 0.75 - 1.0amps each. They CAN'T be the same. You would know this if you had a METER. Perhaps they look the same?

QUOTE: ]Now the added weight cuts down on the shell chatter which BTW accounts for a lot of the noise.The noise is also cause by the way the body vibrates on the frame due to the way Athearn mounts the shells

How do you account for this? The extra weight. makes the body fit 'snugger' on the chassis? OK, pull the motor out of the Athearn chassis (It used to lift out) and roll it down the track - where did the vibration go?
.

QUOTE: BTW don't over look the older P2K Geeps use the same motor as Athearn along with the drive

NO. The "older P2K Geeps I have (GP-20 GP-30) use only 0.25 amps each - approximately 1/3rd that of Athearn's, and with a diode lighting bridge connected. Explain that.

QUOTE: "Don,I been using and fine tuning Athearn locos for years..There's very little I can't tell you about 'em.

Please do.

[BRAKIE]

Don,I am fini***rading words with you since your main interest is to fuss and try to make me look like a lier or a fool and I am finish playing your childish games.

[WSOR 3801]

For that FP45, add 9 oz. stick on weight, no more. Make sure the coupler is screwed into the frame, or you'll be pulling drawbars out, just like the real ones.

If the Athearn drive is so bad, why did P2K copy it? Athearn Blomberg sideframes fit right on the P2K truck. The P2K sideframes were messed up, didn't have anything for the swing hanger to hook to on the bottom.

Mike

[AntonioFP45]

Interesting that you pointed out the sideframes, WSOR.

A number of the modelers that go to my LHS (Happy Hobo Trains) purchase P2K locomotives brand new, then they buy the Athearn sideframes for them.

The Athearn drive is not "bad". It's tough and rugged. I think the point a number of posters are making is that for today's model railroading standards, it is "dated" but still very useful. Perfect for those on a budget and newbies.

I think of it like the 1970s hot rods I owned years back. Tough, rugged but no where near as efficicient as today's cars. By the same token, today's new cars (and upgraded model locomotives [;)] ) are more expensive to repair when something breaks or wears out. But this is a price that many modelers are willing to pay for smooth, quiet, low-amp drawing performance.

Don and Brakie,

Both of you are respected members of this forum. Relax and communicate without pulling each other's chains.

Peace and Cheers!

[Don Gibson]

QUOTE: Originally posted by WSOR 3801
" If the Athearn drive is so bad, why did P2K copy it?

ORIGINAL DESIGN is one thing, IMPLIMENTATION is another.
PROTO POWER WEST took the design a step further by polishing gears, adding weight, installing positive eletrical cotact's, and a new motor. It outperfoms the P2K.

QUOTE: "For that FP45, add 9 oz. stick on weight, no more "...

THAT's over 1/2 Lb ! (This is a QUESTION:) Did you check to see when adding weighy how much the amps increased to avoid motor burnout?

[AntonioFP45]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Don Gibson

QUOTE: Originally posted by WSOR 3801
" If the Athearn drive is so bad, why did P2K copy it?

ORIGINAL DESIGN is one thing, IMPLIMENTATION is another.
PROTO POWER WEST took the design a step further by polishing gears, adding weight, installing positive eletrical cotact's, and a new motor. It outperfoms the P2K.

QUOTE: "For that FP45, add 9 oz. stick on weight, no more "...

THAT's over 1/2 Lb ! (This is a QUESTION:) Did you check to see when adding weighy how much the amps increased to avoid motor burnout?

Good point, Don.

I did read on another thread a while back that for Athearn cab units, one can apply weatherstrip or insulation tape to help quiet the vibration of the body shell.

[dwRavenstar]

Once again a question has been presented that has dissimilar responses, offering some the chance to state their preference and others to bring out their ridicule schtick.

It's a matter of personal preference. Sure, my '87 Town Car doesn't have some of the ammenities and performance options of a new Ferrari but it gets me to work and home to my layout consistently so I'm happy with what I've got. Toss me the keys to the Ferrari and I'm outta here though.

Brakie is again speaking from experience and his view can't be disputed. Technically, Gibson might be right but from an experience view point all the stats in the world won't change what's actually happening. I've been gathering the bits and pieces for my ongoing layout construction and all eight of the locos I've purchased in the last couple months are BB Athearns. Maybe when the scenery is completed and there's nothing else left to invest in I'll start collecting the other models. Then again, maybe I'll still be driving my white sled to work five years from now as well.

Athearns can growl, it's expected of them. They can draw whatever current their design and operation requires, it's a moot point in my book. If I start letting the technical data (this spoken by an ex-design engineer) dictate my model railroading fun I'll soon start worrying if my flourescent lights need to be replaced with models that will save me thirty cents a year in daily operation. No undo offense intended but I'd just as soon worry about the next derailment.

Dave (dwRavenstar)

[aloco]

The Athearn blue box road diesels are good, but the yard switchers are junk. I replaced all my Athearn SW7s with Life-Like SW9s, and I think the extra expense was well worth it. The Life-Like GM switchers run much better, and the detail is much closer to the prototype.

[dharmon]

QUOTE: Originally posted by AntonioFP45


I did read on another thread a while back that for Athearn cab units, one can apply weatherstrip or insulation tape to help quiet the vibration of the body shell.

For FP45s and the older widebody U Boats a self adhesive panty liner stuck in the top on the shell works quite well......good sound absorbtion qualites.....

[RMax1]

All the Athearns I have are fairly quiet. Some make noise but no where near what my older Atlas SD35's make. I still like the BB Athearn because you can really work them over. Try finding a mid 60's early 70's KATY F7 that even looks close to real life. They can make all these pretty RTR engines but none of them look real. The Athearn F7 with new paint , details and weathering works just fine. They can also be had for less than $30.

RMax1

[Anonymous]

I've got 7 Athearn BB F7's. All but one of them are very quiet since break-in. One of them is the quietest loco I have, even quieter than my Kato or Trix!

I found that some break-in when new seems to be the key, for me at least. I run them at about half throttle for 20 minutes in both forward and reverse when new. Then i check and lube the gearboxes with LaBelle gear oil. Then I run them again, varying the speeds from half throttle to nearly wide open for another 20 minutes each direction.

After that, they just run and run fine. Like I said, all but one are very quiet and the one that isn't is the only one that I didn't perform my "break-in" on. I haven't really tried to correct it, as it really isn't significant. Sounds just like a diesel with sound installed. Just doesn't have the horn! If I decide to install sound decoders, I may go thru the gearboxes and try to lessen the noise, but right now do not see the need.

[rrgrassi]

I Love my Athearn BB sets. Athearn has good customer service as well. I have heard about using toothpaste to pack the gears. That would be fine to poli***he shafts and the teeth, but you do need to get the tooth past out, because the polishing grit will wear down the plastic, and cause the gears to wobble and lose the meshing properties needed to transfer the power to the wheels. What I do is lightly pack them with white lithium grease. I put a dab on all the axles and bushings, the worm gears and thrust washers. It's plastic friendly, and helps to quite the gears a bit. I do not use oil since it has a habit of dripping and getting on the track. I will use a small drop of oil on the motor armature, and then I'll hook the motors only up to some power to spin off any excess oil.

As far a detailing, I love the METAL railings and grab irons in the BB. You can paint and strip them as much as you like, plus they do not break like the plasic railings. My first Athearn was bought on EBay. I paid $10 since it was listed as "runs but not well. It has the metal trucks, so I know it is older, I just do not know how old, but all it needed was a tune up, and it runs like a champ. Directional lighting can be done by either DCC, or DC by using a diode in series with lights, like the DC Spectrums and IHC's. Or, go to www.richmondcontrols.com and order some LED's. You do not have to have DCC to use LED's. I use them now, and am very amazed at the bightness of the headlights. I do not use fiber optics. Instead I'll use a little electircal tape around the LED to direct the light where I want it to go.

BTW, I have not made the jump to DCC yet. I have a track I run on the Kitchen floor while I convert the garage so I can build a layout.

Athearn to me is like my old Chevy truck, it just won't die, unless you sledgehammer it. The Chevy died after 200,000 miles thanks to an arguement with a bridge abuttment on an icy road. Never let friends borrow your trucks! Same goes for your trains.

Later!

[countershot]

I have a sd9 and in makes some noise but it is not that bad.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Don Gibson

QUOTE: "For that FP45, add 9 oz. stick on weight, no more "...

THAT's over 1/2 Lb ! (This is a QUESTION:) Did you check to see when adding weighy how much the amps increased to avoid motor burnout?

Don,

I put a 9 oz. stick of weight in my FP45 and the motor doesn't draw anymore current than before. And now it pulls 3 times at much![8D]