Best Couplers for HO Long Passenger Cars

[Shock Control]

I have an HO Budd passenger train set made by Athearn.  The couplers are connected to the trucks, and there is quite a distance between the truck and the coupler.  Do knuckle or horn hook couplers tend to perform better with these kinds of cars?  

[Lone Wolf and Santa Fe]

I recommend McHenry coupler. I think they should be exact replacements. Horn hook coupler are old fashion and have been phased out because you can't uncouple them and they are not compatible with Kadee couplers.

[dstarr]

The Athearn passenger cars give very good performance ( like they stay on the track) around tight 18 inch curves.  The truck mounted couplers and the clearance between cars help negotiate tight curves.  Unless your layout has broad curves, say 30 inch or better, I would stick with the Athearn truck mounted couplers. 

   I gather from your post that your cars don't have knuckle couplers.  Kadee invented the knuckle coupler and still makes the best.  Since Kadee's patents ran out sometime in the 1990s, a number of companies have made Kadee compatable clone knuckle couplers.  But, last time I looked, they wanted as much money for clones as Kadee wants for their coupler.  So I buy the best, since it doesn't cost more. 

   The horn hook coupler is pretty much obsolete now.  There is still a good deal of rolling stock left from the old days with horn hook couplers but most of us change them out for Kadees. 

[DigitalGriffin]

Wow, those are Talgo trucks for sure. As dstarr notes, they will help you negotiate tight curves. But they work against you if you try to move backwards. Here's the conversion recommended by Kadee, but I don't think they cover conversions that old.

 

https://kadee.com/conv/pdf/ath6.pdf

 

They do sell talgo adapters that allow you to snap a standard pocket into a talgo truck.

https://kadee.com/htmbord/page212.htm

 

 

McHenry is the direct replacement and I have used these myself with good success on Concors

[Shock Control]

Thanks all for the replies.  I have had freight trains all my life, mostly older Athearn and metal-frame Mantua/Tyco, 40' or an occasional 50'. I have always used a combination of knuckle and hook horn couplers.  With my freight cars, I have never noticed a discernable difference in performance, except having to be careful that the brake hoses don't hang too low on the knuckles.

This is the first passenger set I have a ever had, and given the length of the cars and the length from the trucks to the car ends, I was just curious about performance of different types of couplers.

The passenger set I have has knuckle couplers, and I have not run it very much. I certainly don't need to swap couplers if there is no reason to, but I have zillions of spare knuckles and horn hooks lying around, so I was just curious.

Thanks again.

[dinwitty]

Walthers has these wide swing coupler pockets for passenger cars, clip those truck mounted couplers off and put these on.

[Shock Control]

dinwitty

Walthers has these wide swing coupler pockets for passenger cars, clip those truck mounted couplers off and put these on.

 

I don't understand.  Do they mount to the frames?

[ATSFGuy]

Check Kadee's coupler reference sheet, it will have suggestions on what couplers to use with what types of cars.

[SeeYou190]

I don't run Athearn passenger cars, but I have a string of Rivarossi Heavyweights that are scale length. These all have truck mounted couplers.

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I have left them as truck mounted couplers because they function perfectly. I do not do any swicthing or operation with passenger trains. They just run in circles. 

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I will probably leave them as truck mounted couplers as long as there areno problems.

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-Kevin

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[NP01]

There are three reasons to change a truck mount to a body mount-

1. You want to run some body mounted cars and some truck mounted cars in the same consist.
2. You want cars closer together in a consist. But this also means you have broad (36” ideally but can get away with 30”)  curves and long (#8, at least #6) switches ... because otherwise the misalignment on the curve looks worse. 
3. You run backwards on sharp curves a lot. 

I spent some study time before starting conversion of my 6-car Athern bluebox set. Tests revealed the set worked fine with a Walthers FP40 engine going front and back on 30” curves (min on my layout) and #6 switches. So I am leaving it alone ... just replaced to Kadee and made suren the hoses werent too low. Changed out the coupler box covers. Next thing is to add some weights and dull-coat them so they don’t look so plasticy. 

NP. 

[zstripe]

Shock Control

 

 

dinwitty

Walthers has these wide swing coupler pockets for passenger cars, clip those truck mounted couplers off and put these on.

 

 

 

I don't understand.  Do they mount to the frames?

 

They look like this:

You would more than likely have to drill holes to use them on Athearn cars:

I use them on the Walthers 85ft Mainline cars...along with metal trucks and wheelsets for the SMD light bars inside. I also use a 1/4'' short shank Kadee coupler so the diaphragms barely touch.....but I do have broad curves so not a problem.

Take Care! 

Frank

[restorator]

The Kadee #451's work well also. Has helped me get some 89' cars around 24" radius curves and through atlas #4 turnouts. And they "lock" when backing to keep them in line.

https://kadee.com/htmbord/page451.htm

[Overmod]

Has anyone implemented the idea of linking the 'arm' on a Talgo-style passenger truck so it performs the task of steering the wide-travel Walthers arm to get the knuckle aligned correctly on non-tangent track?  You will need GHA for sure to couple two cars 'converted' to those spring-centered body mounts on a curve, and it might be fun to get two coupling sticks in past full-width diaphragms or on a hidden spiral somewhere...

[wjstix]

I second Kevin's earlier post. I have AHM/Rivarossi and Athearn heavyweights with truck-mounted couplers that work fine backwards or forwards - as long as they're properly weighted. The ones I've had derailment problems with are the Walthers ones with body-mounted coupers. When backing up, the diaphragms cause the cars to derail. I eventually solved it by having each car set up with one regular Kadee No.5 and one extended-shank No.5. It gives just enough distance between the diaphragms that they don't cause problems, but the cars are still fairly close.

[jjdamnit]

Hello all,

You don't mention if this set runs well as-built over your existing trackage.

What is the minimum radius that you will be running this train over?

Will you be breaking this train down to individual cars or keeping it as a single string?

IF the set runs well as-built AND you won't be breaking this train apart I would keep the current couplers (Hook & Horn [X2F type] I'm assuming) and just cut off the downward protruding "horn".

IF you are having problems running this train then I would recommend converting to body mounted Kadee's; and possibly upgrading the trucks too, if the budget permits.

Some things to consider if you decide to convert:

• You can "open up" the mouth of a Kadee draft gear box by cutting away a small portion of the sides of the box to get a wider range of coupler swing.
• Using "wisker" type Kadee couplers will allow more swing from a modified draft gear box than the traditional #5 type centering spring.
• If you are not worried about prototypical spacing between the cars, long shank couplers will also give you more coupler swing, allowing the cars to negotiate tighter radius turns and smaller numbered turnouts.
• If you are keeping the original couplers then you only need to convert one end of the lead car to mate with your locomotive.

Hope this helps.

[Shock Control]

jjdamnit

You don't mention if this set runs well as-built over your existing trackage.

I didn't run it enough this year to determine.

jjdamnit

What is the minimum radius that you will be running this train over?

18" radius

jjdamnit

YWill you be breaking this train down to individual cars or keeping it as a single string? 

Running the whole train in an oval, no switching.

jjdamnit

IF the set runs well as-built AND you won't be breaking this train apart I would keep the current couplers (Hook & Horn [X2F type] I'm assuming) 

Knuckle couplers.  Because of the long stems and 18" radius track, I was trying to determine if one was better than the other.

Thanks!

[RR_Mel]

I have two 13 car passenger trains, all Athearn 72’ streamline cars.  All 26 cars have the original Athearn truck mounted coupler pockets with Kadee #119 couplers, I did swap out the original plastic wheels with Athearn metal wheel sets.

 

The only problems I’ve ever had was a random uncoupling during speed changes on my 3½% grades.  I cured that problem by using Kadee shelf couplers.  I went with Kadee scale shelf couplers #119 because they are smaller than the regular #5s, closer to scale.  Shelf couplers aren’t everyone’s cup of tea but they work great for me.  They’re a bugger to uncouple without a track uncoupler.  The Atlas track magnets work great, I have one on every yard storage track.

 

Even before I changed couplers I didn’t have problems with the truck mount style couplers.  I run all of my rolling stock over weight including my Athearn passenger cars.  I’ve never had problems pushing them, I store them by backing them into my yard through #4 Atlas turnouts.

 

 

 

Mel

 

Modeling the early to mid 1950s SP in HO scale since 1951

 

 

My Model Railroad   

http://melvineperry.blogspot.com/

 

Bakersfield, California

 

I'm beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.