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Hard to remove small screws, any tip's or tools?

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Hard to remove small screws, any tip's or tools?
Posted by cudaken on Wednesday, December 06, 2017 4:00 PM

 I am HO Scale and have problems with some hard to remove small screws. While I have jewelers screwdrive set that will fit the screws heads there handles are so small I cannot get the torque needed to break the screw loes. Tried to use pliers but cannot push down has hard the screw driver bite slips and rounds out the screw head?

 Does anyone make jeweler sizes bites with larger handles? Maybe wrapping duck tape around the handle to make it bigger? Current project is a BLI F7A and cannot get the fuel tank off so I can get the motor out.

 Thanks for the coming answers.

 Cuda Ken

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Posted by richhotrain on Wednesday, December 06, 2017 4:09 PM

How about a drill tap?

Rich

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Posted by richg1998 on Wednesday, December 06, 2017 4:20 PM

Check Micro Mark. They have a variety of screw drivers. Most locos have Phillips head screws.

Micro Mark has been my favorite for some years for modeling tools.

https://www.micromark.com/mini-hand-tools/screwdrivers-nut-drivers

Useful when my glasses have a screw that loosens and I can tighten it more securely.

Be careful you don’t strip the plastic threads when putting the screw back in.

Rich

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Posted by gmpullman on Wednesday, December 06, 2017 4:21 PM

cudaken
Does anyone make jeweler sizes bites with larger handles?

I've owned dozens of brands of "precision" screw drivers over the years.

Wiha have always been my favorite.

https://www.kctoolco.com/wiha-92191-51-piece-master-technicians-precision-screwdriver-set/

Now, you don't have to get this set exactly, they offer a variety of smaller sets. They are worth the investment.

 

I buy mine from Amazon:

https://www.amazon.com/26197-Precision-Slotted-Phillips-Screwdrivers/dp/B01L46TEN2/ref=pd_sim_469_84?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B01L46TEN2&pd_rd_r=KBHEM9QXDTACM6ARJ538&pd_rd_w=6oPv1&pd_rd_wg=ZEhGZ&psc=1&refRID=KBHEM9QXDTACM6ARJ538

 

 

You might want to get one of those magnetizer/demagnetizer tools, too.

https://www.amazon.com/Wiha-40010-Magnetizer-or-Demagnetizer/dp/B00018AONE/ref=pd_sim_469_1?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B00018AONE&pd_rd_r=KBHEM9QXDTACM6ARJ538&pd_rd_w=6oPv1&pd_rd_wg=ZEhGZ&psc=1&refRID=KBHEM9QXDTACM6ARJ538

Have Fun!

Ed

 

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Posted by dstarr on Wednesday, December 06, 2017 4:47 PM

Try some pentrating oil on the stuck screws.  The slots and/or Phillips heads on small brass screws cannot take much torque before they strip out.  The dinky little handles on jewelers screwdrivers will apply all the torque the screw heads can stand. 

  If worst comes to worst, you drill out the gummed up screw, retap the hole a size larger, and insert brand new screws. 

 

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Posted by richhotrain on Wednesday, December 06, 2017 4:50 PM

dstarr

If worst comes to worst, you drill out the gummed up screw, retap the hole a size larger, and insert brand new screws.  

That's what I would do.

Rich

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Posted by ROBERT PETRICK on Wednesday, December 06, 2017 4:56 PM

Holding the screwdriver with thumb and middle finger with index finger on rotating top . . .

Can you pinch the barrel with a small bit of 400-grit sandpaper folded into a v-shape between thumb and middle finger? Or, there's always the George Brett pine tar technique. 

Robert 

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Posted by tstage on Wednesday, December 06, 2017 5:02 PM

cudaken
Does anyone make jeweler sizes bites with larger handles?

Look at Wiha Tools, Ken.  VERY comfortable handles and come in a variety of screwdriver head types and sizes.  Those small jeweler's screwdrivers are useless and uncomfortable with my larger hands.

The Wiha 7-piece slotted/Phillips screwdriver set (#26197) should cover all your needs.   Definitely worth the investiment. Yes

Tom

[Edit: It looks like Ed and I are on the same page. Big Smile]

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Posted by SpringStreet on Wednesday, December 06, 2017 5:05 PM

Apologies if this is already familiar to you: I sometimes (not necessarily on model trains) find that small "Phillips" screws aren't really Phillips, but something superficially similar, like JIS (Japan Industrial Standard). I sometimes can get better leverage on the screw using the intended type of screwdriver (like JIS) rather than the standard Phillips type. There's a very good explanation, with identifying photos, on the Instructables site, titled "When a Phillips is not a Phillips." JIS (and, I assume, other Phillips look-alike) screwdriver sets can be bought from USA vendors; they're not expensive (at least for small jewelers sizes).

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Posted by Graham Line on Wednesday, December 06, 2017 5:24 PM

Picking up a variety of small screwdrivers -- some of them promotional freebies -- helps me solve the problem Spring Street mentions. I've been able to replace some of the screws with oddball heads with real Phillips screws from eBay or some of the online vendors.

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Posted by Lone Wolf and Santa Fe on Wednesday, December 06, 2017 5:31 PM

I use miniature screwdrivers which are designed for electronics. They have better handles than jeweler’s. I have collected several over the years including ones made by Craftsmen, Stanley and Xcelite.

Modeling a fictional version of California set in the 1990s Lone Wolf and Santa Fe Railroad
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Posted by BATMAN on Wednesday, December 06, 2017 5:42 PM

I have a pretty good selection of small screwdrivers, however, there are still times when I can't get the screws loose, so I have a small vice grip, maybe three or four inches long I attach to the handle. It seems to work well.

 

Brent

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Posted by richg1998 on Wednesday, December 06, 2017 6:03 PM

Another issue about removing small stubborn screws, keep a tube of anti cam out paste handy for the screw driver tip.

Drilling and taping can be an issue for small screws like this. You only have to do it once and you will know.

As a retired mechanic, I have had to drill out a screw or bolt and tap a few times over the years.

Rich

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Posted by 7j43k on Wednesday, December 06, 2017 6:10 PM

My father taught me the poor man's impact method:

Put the screwdriver blade in the slot and put some torque on it.  Then hit the screwdriver with a hammer.  Keep doing both at once.

Yes, it can and does work.  If you don't make a mistake.

 

Ed

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Posted by tstage on Wednesday, December 06, 2017 6:59 PM

Good, if your tip is hardened; not so, if it's not.  Unhardened tool tips will deform themselves AND the end of the screw head that you're trying to remove.

Tom

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Posted by mbinsewi on Wednesday, December 06, 2017 9:46 PM

I found a set, 3 sizes of phillips and straight blade, at my local hardware store.  They have a nice easy to grip handle you can get your hand around, the end of the handle has the rotating tip thing, so you can grip the handle, and apply pressure with your palm. 

Once I get them loose, I have the screw holding tool, with the wire grippers that hold on to the screw, for easy removal, and placement.

Mike.

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Posted by dknelson on Thursday, December 07, 2017 10:12 AM

Of course you can take the very small screwdrivers meant for eyeglass repair and drill a hole in the end of a dowel and force in the screwdriver handle into the hole to give you a better grip and purchase if that is the issue.

You can also take a larger screwdriver and grind it down on a grinder to small size (slot head screwdriver that is).

One of my favorite very small screwdrivers is one I have no idea if you can still find.  It came with one of my late mother's sewing machines, circa 1950.  When that one finally gave out she gave me the little tool kit that came with it.  Small head, fairly long shaft, and a decent sized wood handle on it.  Perhaps stores that cater to people who sew have something similar?

Dave Nelson

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Posted by BATMAN on Thursday, December 07, 2017 10:44 AM

Don't forget the old trick of putting things in the freezer to loosen tight screws, it works better than you think. A good trick if your eyeglass arms keep coming loose is to put them in the freezer and then tighten them. When they return to room temperature, they get really tight. 

Brent

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Posted by BigDaddy on Thursday, December 07, 2017 10:54 AM

Once upon a time a had a cheap set of those Jewelers Screwdrivers, if you google, you will come up with a dozen that look exactly the same, fluted steel body, came in a set of 5.  These had a hole in the upper body and a little steel bar, about the size of an 1/8" drill bit, that you could use as a breaker bar.  Wouldn't be hard to make your own with a drill press.

Kroil an oil popular with firearms folks is better than PB blaster or liquid wrench for loosening stuck screws.  ATF and acetone is supposedly better.

Sometimes tightening it a tiny bit first works.

 

Henry

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Posted by ricktrains4824 on Thursday, December 07, 2017 1:44 PM

I found a set from Kobalt at Lowe's, it contains a regular screwdriver handle, with multiple exchangeable bits, from mini sized 0000 Phillips on up, that works great!

Its now my go-to set.

Ricky W.

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Posted by tommymr on Friday, December 08, 2017 8:07 AM

I don't have a super small set of them, but what you want is what's called a JIS screwdriver.  They are phillips type, but are made to the "Japanese industrial standard"  Although they don't LOOK much different, they don't cam out when force is applied.  They are useful for taking apart most any item that is made overseas.  

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Posted by RR_Mel on Friday, December 08, 2017 8:36 AM

tstage

Look at Wiha Tools, Ken.  VERY comfortable handles and come in a variety of screwdriver head types and sizes.  Those small jeweler's screwdrivers are useless and uncomfortable with my larger hands.

The Wiha 7-piece slotted/Phillips screwdriver set (#26197) should cover all your needs.   Definitely worth the investiment. Yes

Tom

I’m with Tom on this issue.  The Wiha Tools are excellent.  A bit pricy but the best screwdrivers I’ve ever owned.  They also have nut drivers in both metric and SAE, great for model railroading.
 
 
 
Mel
 
Modeling the early to mid 1950s SP in HO scale since 1951
  
 
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Posted by selector on Friday, December 08, 2017 9:36 AM

Look at Micro Mark's site, Ken.  They sell small tools, including those better precision nut drivers and many other better choices, for modelers in all hobbies and for crafts and small item repairs.

https://www.micromark.com/mini-hand-tools

 I can't be sure, but the nut driver sets, in both units, look a lot like the Wiha kind mentioned by several people.

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Posted by Walt Con on Friday, December 08, 2017 11:21 AM

The JIS screwdrivers are also known as crosspoint, different from a standard phillips head. And most JIS heads are shorter then the phillips.  Might help to type crosspoint screwdriver on web and look at images.  You will see a differant X pattern and also notice the shallow length of the tip

Hope this helps the explaining the differance in JIS vice Phillips

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Posted by gmpullman on Friday, December 08, 2017 4:49 PM

Curiosity got the better of me so I grabbed an identical BLI F7 to check the screw size.

 BLI_F7_fuel2 by Edmund, on Flickr

A Wiha #0 x 50mm (261) driver fits the head nice and snug. No question of the fit. All four screws holding the fuel tank spun right out without any complaints or resistance.

 BLI_F7_fuel by Edmund, on Flickr

 

Again, I still recommend the Wiha which I mentioned in my earlier post.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_screw_drives

 JIS B 1012 Heads are usually identifiable by a single dot or an "X" to one side of the cross slot.

Thank you all,

It will be good to hear from Ken after all this discussion Whistling

 

Regards, Ed

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Posted by cudaken on Friday, December 08, 2017 9:45 PM

 Well thanks for all the tips and links folk's!

 

7j43k
Put the screwdriver blade in the slot and put some torque on it. Then hit the screwdriver with a hammer. Keep doing both at once.

 7j43k I am a old wrech and used that trick many time. In this case it was a very bad indea! Sigh BLI engine I am talking about had strange rubbing sound that sounded like drive train or fly wheel rubbing I knew about when I got it. For all most a year no strange rubbing sound. Few months ago sound was back. When I tried to get the fuel tank off I was tapping the screw driver with a set of needle nose's. I will be danged, the pot metal chassis broke in half! Bang Head

 Brent aka Batman. Wonder what the wife will think when she finds a BLI F7a in the frezzer Saturday. Whistling Trying to get the motor out to be used in a driffrent project.

 Rick I owe you a Root Beer Float. I will check at lowes.

 Thanks again folks for all the links and help! Big Smile

 Ken

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Posted by SeeYou190 on Friday, December 08, 2017 9:52 PM

I have nothing new to add, but you can put my name on the list of people recommending WIHA brand miniature screwdrivers. They are great.

.

-Kevin

.

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Posted by Track fiddler on Friday, December 08, 2017 10:53 PM

I hope I'm not repeating anything that was answered on this thread. If I did, I do apologize. I did not read it in its entirety. With that said I can tell you this. 

Nothing is made here anymore. Neither screws or bits, you name it......... Nothing mates anymore. 

There was a time when there was only three four types of screws and three four types of drivers. Now there is about 60-70.

I have a hard time finding drivers that mate with the fasteners that I use in construction. When I do find that mate,  it's a crying shame the screws that are available are so full of pot metal they don't even work, but they sure charge you a pretty penny for them.

This could be your problem.  Whether it is or not it certainly is my problem.

Sometimes I have time to mate screws with drivers. When I do and I get all my Hardware in a group...... I sure am a happy man.

Respectfully     Track Fiddler

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Posted by willy6 on Saturday, December 09, 2017 11:08 AM

As a former auto mechanic, I used to remove small stubborn screws with a pair of side cutter pliers if the screw was not recessed. A small pair of pliers gets under the head grips the screw. And in some cases on a recessed screw, I would try by using a pair of minature side cutters and try to get into the area between the two pieces the screw was holding together and grip the screw with minimal damage. Of course there were times of drilling and tapping IF your drill bit was stronger than the fastener you were drilling.

trains

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