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NO MORE UNWANTED UNCOUPLING WITH A PERMANENT KADEE MAGNET

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  • Member since
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  • From: belgium
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NO MORE UNWANTED UNCOUPLING WITH A PERMANENT KADEE MAGNET
Posted by Marc_Magnus on Sunday, November 12, 2017 3:35 AM

Kadee and Micro Trains (once time a unique producer of the "Cadillac of the couplers) suggest to use permanent magnet under the track to offer delaying action on theirs well know couplers.

These permanent magnet work great but have the annoying habit to uncouple cars when they are placed under running track.

Kadee and MT suggest in their "how to do " manuals to put these magnet on a hinge or on a drawer with rails to avoid unwanted uncoupling.

These device are heavy to do, need good planning and adjustement to work reliably and  we don't speak about their placement under the benchwork and the placement of the linkage to make them working and forget it if your trackwork is already existing.

Anyway it's not and easy to do solution, not fun to do and quiet time consuming.

Kadee and MT offer an electro magnet to uncouple but these magnet are not easy to put in place again and need a big electrical supply to work reliably. If you need a few they become expensive.

 

Jacques Leplat and me discover this system, just by try and error placement of permanent magnet under the track.

The magnetic field magnet open the coupler if the field is under the track, in the longitudinal way of the files of rails.

If the magnet is just turned 90° from the files of rail in a perpendicular way, the magnetic field of the magnet don't affect the coupler, the coupler stay close.

Jacques and me ended with a small device which allow by a way extremly simply to turn the permanent magnet from 90° under the track.

This give a permanent magnet which work just when you need it, no more unwanted uncoupling on running track.

Using a Kadee or MT magnet ou your own suppliers is anyway cheap.

This device is easy to place, no more than 15 minutes even on existing track.

Drill a hole in the center line of the track with a hole saw and it's nearly finish, because the magnet is the log jam of the hole!

Before we put back the track we insert a small piece of thin translucid plastic (like mikka) to see if the track is well centered over the magnet.

You can build the device on the workbench, adjustement are most at the workbench, because you do a jig to adjudt it; the magnet and the steel plate are mounted on a small threaded rods wich allow any fine adjsutment.

The device beside is made from my friend Jacques, the piano wire is a retainer to lock the magnet in position, this device can be actuated manualy or with a servo with a 90° travel, this will be our "MARK II" device.

The pictures of the device are from my friend J.Leplat, the one whith the MT cars and white magnet are mine.

 

The pictures below show how simply the device really is.

The magnet under the track in normal position, the coupler is open

The magnet in a perpendicular position of the track, the coupler stay close

The "Leplat" device in place under the track (j.l pictures)

Just drill a hole in the center of the track with a hole saw (j.l. picture)

The "Leplat" device ready to be put in place; the device is the log jam of the hole, you see the piano wire as a "locker" of position of the device.

The "Leplat" device in position under the track in the hole already bored.

 

 

 

 

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Posted by riogrande5761 on Sunday, November 12, 2017 8:04 AM

Your title in ALL CAPS makes it look like you are yelling. Dead

Rio Grande.  The Action Road

Contrarian's contrarian
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Posted by Attuvian on Sunday, November 12, 2017 8:12 AM

riogrande5761

Your title in all caps makes it look like you are yelling. Dead


 
Might be necessary.  He's giving us a shout-out from Belgium.  Huh?
 
Interesting gizmo and neat idea. I wonder about the workability once it is separated from the coupler pins by roadbed and sub-roadbed.  Will magnet strength overcome that issue?
 
I would like to see their manual and servo linkages.
 
John
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Posted by riogrande5761 on Sunday, November 12, 2017 8:21 AM

With fiber lines, it ain't like the olden days where you had to shout on overseas calls.  

Rio Grande.  The Action Road

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Posted by Attuvian on Sunday, November 12, 2017 8:25 AM

Perhaps unfamiliar with American cyber-social conventions.  I'll give him a break - and ask him to send chocolate as reparations!

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Posted by snjroy on Sunday, November 12, 2017 9:53 AM

Nice craftsmanship. Does the Rapido uncoupler work on the same principle?

Simon

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Posted by SeeYou190 on Sunday, November 12, 2017 10:06 AM

I will respond in all caps because that is how I feel.

.

THAT IS BRILLIANT!

.

As soon as I saw the device I thought "WOW!" Big Smile  Big Smile  Big Smile  Big Smile  Big Smile

.

I can see every track in my yard ladder (there are only 4) having their own uncoupler now. I can also place uncouplers along the same stretch of track without worrying about stopping cars over an undesired uncoupler.

.

It looks like in HO sclae using a Kadee 308 uncoupler this system would require a hole about 2.5 inches in diameter.

.

Thank you so much for posting this idea. Since this is your original idea, maybe it should be presented for publication.

.

-Kevin

.

 

Happily modeling the STRATTON & GILLETTE RAILROAD located in a world of plausible nonsense set in August, 1954.

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Posted by selector on Sunday, November 12, 2017 10:29 AM

Thanks, Marc. It's a very useful discovery that I haven't seen published until now.  I may just decide to use this in my yard ladder near the turnouts.

-Crandell

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Posted by Attuvian on Sunday, November 12, 2017 10:44 AM

I note that, with some care and perhaps a small, centering pilot hole from above to start, these could be installed from below without having to remove and replace track and roadbed.  Just be exact with the depth of the cutout, avoid undertable wiring, framework and bracing, etc.  I'd bet that in many if not most retro installations these could be done from below.  These guys ought to hustle off and get it patented before someone else makes some money off it!

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Posted by BRAKIE on Sunday, November 12, 2017 11:24 AM

riogrande5761

Your title in ALL CAPS makes it look like you are yelling. Dead

 

Jim,I believe you have forgotten us old guys that's slightly hard of hearing? A loud shout out might be needed for some of us old goats..

 

I'll second the chocolates.Dinner

Larry

SSRy

Conductor

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Posted by SeeYou190 on Sunday, November 12, 2017 11:37 AM

riogrande5761
Your title in ALL CAPS makes it look like you are yelling.

.

If I came up with this idea, I would have shouting about it too!

.

-Kevin

.

Happily modeling the STRATTON & GILLETTE RAILROAD located in a world of plausible nonsense set in August, 1954.

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Posted by JoeinPA on Sunday, November 12, 2017 11:51 AM

Marc

This is an interesting idea that should have a lot of applications. It looks like the magnet is a Kadee magnet and intensifier modified to fit into the circular hole in the benchwork. How did you make the modification without affecting the magnetic strength?

Joe

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Posted by RR_Mel on Sunday, November 12, 2017 12:06 PM

Several years ago I did a similar thing on my layout.  I built a lift mechanism to move a Kadee magnet up and down.  It wasn’t a lot of trouble but enough that I only made one.  It has worked flawlessly for many years.
 
If anyone is interested here is a link to my blog post on my homebrew uncoupler.
 
 
 
Mel
 
Modeling the early to mid 1950s SP in HO scale since 1951
 
My Model Railroad   
 
Bakersfield, California
 
I'm beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.
 
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Posted by BMMECNYC on Sunday, November 12, 2017 2:47 PM

I skipped this problem entirely by switching to Sergent couplers.

Only drawback is my layout has to be built in such a way that I can reach where I want to uncouple.  Since I dont plan on building most of the layout any wider than 24", and narrower where possible anyway, nothing is lost.

Edit:

Not really helpful for N-scale folks, as Sergents are HO and S scale at the moment, probably cant be made that small.

Rule 108: In case of doubt or uncertainty, the safe course must be taken.
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Posted by Marc_Magnus on Sunday, November 12, 2017 3:10 PM

[quote user="JoeinPA"]

Marc

This is an interesting idea that should have a lot of applications. It looks like the magnet is a Kadee magnet and intensifier modified to fit into the circular hole in the benchwork. How did you make the modification without affecting the magnetic strength?

Joe

 

Hi Joe;

First we drill a hole in the middle of the steel plate and tap it for a 5mm threaded rod.

We put the magnet on his steel plate as mentionned in the Kadee/MT instruction and glue it togheter whith contact cement.

When dry, we put the threated rod back in place in the hole and put on it the wood log jam as a jig to trace the curve (the hole saw must be a little bit wider than the magnet).

When traced,we put away the threated rod and using a sand belt we give the steel and magnet the necessary curves.

Don't be afraid this don't affect the quality and the power of the magnet ( 82 uncouplers are now in place using this method without any troubles)

When finish,the rod is put back, a 5mm nuts is squeezed against the steel plate, this block the rod definitively against the steel plate; the rest is as described.

Thanks for your request and interest.

 

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Posted by Marc_Magnus on Sunday, November 12, 2017 3:30 PM

[quote user="Attuvian"]I would like to see their manual and servo linkages. John

 

Hi john,

For manual linkage we use airplanes rods in tubes and a small 90° square like the one you find on servo's. The lenght of the wing of the square is defined by the necessary lenght of travel to move the magnet from 90°.

Airplanes rods slide extremly easily even curved and on the end there is a small thread which allow small fine adjustement; a knob on the fascia is just the operator need to move the magnet.

For servo's is just the same a 12 grams servo whith a 90° travel is directly fixed on the threathed rod, is strong enough to move the whole thing back and forth.

Now control is assured by a simple TAM VALLEY turnout control on the facia , but Arduino is on the whish list to move them.

About subroadbed, the magnet work like a permanent magnet under the subroabed.

There is no change because the magnet rotate; as mentionned we put a thin mikka foil to close the hole which is around, 0,2 mm tickness, the adjusted magnet come around and another 0,2mm against the mikka foil so the magnet is deeper from the tabletop from a 0,4mm than a permanent magnet mount; this does'nt affect the quality of the magnet.

Thanks for your interest and request

 

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Posted by Marc_Magnus on Sunday, November 12, 2017 3:48 PM

RR_Mel
Several years ago I did a similar thing on my layout. I built a lift mechanism to move a Kadee magnet up and down. It wasn’t a lot of trouble but enough that I only made one. It has worked flawlessly for many years. If anyone is interested here is a link to my blog post on my homebrew uncoupler

We just go to your blog and this is a magnificient blog.

I have myself thing about something similar some years ago, I have posted on this forum some ideas and approach to scratch such devices even to scratch build electromagnetic Kadee uncoupler.

They are all workable from your well enginered system and to the hinge suggested  by Kadee /MT but....

But ..... beside any respect about all these devices,  they make me nuts because they are very time consumming to be build and not all are easy to do and adjust.

If you need a lot of uncouplers, this represent a big amount of time just devoted to uncouplers.

The small device we described has on everything else a winner, time,!

In less than an half hour, you have a working uncoupler on your layout, and if you prepare a number of these devices on the worbench, it's need less than 12 minutes to put them in place on the layout by uncoupler , adjustements includes!

Thanks for your interest and request.

 

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Posted by RR_Mel on Sunday, November 12, 2017 6:06 PM

Its been several years since I built the one on my blog but as I remember it took around four hours to build it up, very time consuming.  I also remember it working first try, no dinking around to get it to work.  Because of the time required I only made one of them.
 
I rarely use the one I made, I’m not into switching on my layout so uncoupling isn’t high on my to do list.  The uncoupler I use the most is a Kadee electric under a hidden siding.  It works very good and never accidently uncouples.
 
Thanks for the good words on my blog and thanks for visiting it.
 
Mel
 
Modeling the early to mid 1950s SP in HO scale since 1951
 
My Model Railroad   
 
Bakersfield, California
 
I'm beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.
 
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Posted by Overmod on Tuesday, November 14, 2017 2:38 PM

That is a really nice solution.  

I had an alternative approach developed from study of ATS, which used a coil energized in opposite polarity from the permanent magnet when the train was passing over.  This is relatively easy to make and position, and I think it can be easily relay-switched to control effective magnet ‘resultant power’.  I also thought of using the principle of the magnetic chuck to ‘connect’ a permanent magnet to active pole pieces in range if the coupler, then switching the field on and off with something like a switch machine motor.  But I did not think of simply rotating the uncoupler magnet 90 degrees in plane ... in fact, even after knowing it works, I’m still surprised that it does.

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Posted by kasskaboose on Tuesday, November 14, 2017 9:42 PM

Marc,

Fantastic work!  How do you flip the magnets from vertical to horizontal?  I never thought to try this and have had success with Kaddee under-the-table magnets that look like small watch batteries.  They rest on a small metal plate and are underneath the ties.  Should I try this mechanism instead?

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Posted by Marc_Magnus on Thursday, November 16, 2017 5:19 AM

kasskaboose
Marc, Fantastic work! How do you flip the magnets from vertical to horizontal?

 

Hello,

In fact we don't move the magnet in the horizontal or in the vertical plan, we just rotate it from a "0" position which is linear with the track and uncouple, to a 90° position from the "0" point, which make the magnet perpendicular with the track, this position offer no uncoupling possibilities.

Hope this help, and thanks for your request.

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  • From: belgium
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Posted by Marc_Magnus on Thursday, November 16, 2017 5:33 AM

Unfortunately Rapido couplers are non magnetic couplers.

Our device work only with magnetic couplers like Kadee or MT and the clones we now found on the market.

Rapido Couplers need a device wich lift the pin of the coupler, so the coupler is lift over the coupled coupler, there is already factory done devices existing for Rapido couplers, but further, these couplers d'ont offer delayed action and push car when open.

Anyway I highly recommand Micro Trains couplers for your train.

Thanks for your request

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Posted by Marc_Magnus on Thursday, November 16, 2017 5:39 AM

[quote user="snjroy"]

Nice craftsmanship. Does the Rapido uncoupler work on the same principle?

Simon

 

Unfortunately Rapido couplers aren't magnetic couplers like Micro Trains and his now existing clones.

Rapido couplers need a device which lift the pin of the coupler to pass over the coupled coupler; already factory devices for uncoupling Rapido couplers are offered by manufacturers.

A research on the net and you can find scratch build device to uncouple Rapido couplers.

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Posted by JoeinPA on Thursday, November 16, 2017 7:58 AM

snjroy

Nice craftsmanship. Does the Rapido uncoupler work on the same principle?

Simon

 

Simon

I think that you may be asking about the Rapido "RailCrew" (or is it Train Crew?) uncouplers. They are electromagnetic like the Kadee version.

Joe

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Posted by Marc_Magnus on Friday, November 17, 2017 11:05 AM

Hello,

Just this little skektch which explain the mounting of the rotating magnet.

For more details see my answers on this topic

 

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Posted by rrinker on Friday, November 17, 2017 11:40 AM

 I'm not sure if the Rapido uncoupler actually rotates a magnet or just uses the two coils which would otherwise spin the armature of their switch machine to be an electromagnet to open Kadee couplers. However it works, it's an impressive little device.

                                 --Randy

 


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

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