I have seen various threads here (see below for one) and elsewhere on the internet saying that the Walthers code 83 curved switches (made by Shinohara) do not accurately list the curved radius measurments in the catalog. For example, Walthers lists itas a 24"R/20"R but others have said it is more like 24"R/16.5"R.
http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/11/t/138163.aspx
Does anyone actually have one of their #6.5 switches on their layout? If so, would you be willing to make a pencil tracing of it for me? Likewise, if you have a #7 I would also love a tracing of that.
I have also seen that their code 70 switches have different radius measurements, but to be clear I am only interested in the code 83 curved switches.
Thanks!
Modeling the D&H in 1984: http://dandhcoloniemain.blogspot.com/
Sounds like the subject might make a good article in a model railroad magazine.
Ed
Benjamin MaggiDoes anyone actually have one of their #6.5 switches on their layout? If so, would you be willing to make a pencil tracing of it for me? Likewise, if you have a #7 I would also love a tracing of that.
Hi,
I don't think I have any turnouts as tight as the #6.5 but I would have to take another look at the layout. I might have one in the engine terminal. Can't easily read the bottom once they're spiked and ballasted.
IMG_0261_W by Edmund, on Flickr
I DO have some marked No. 7, 28° - 24° See Photo. The top-most turnout is not marked with a frog number. I presume it is a No. 8.
IMG_0265_W by Edmund, on Flickr
IMG_0264_W by Edmund, on Flickr
Note, the 26 - 3/8 Radius is simply a template that I made for another track-laying project. I placed it on the turnout only as an example.
IMG_0263_W by Edmund, on Flickr
You can see that the diverging route of the No. 7 is pretty close to a 22 inch Radius, between the rails.
If I come across a No. 6½ I'll update the information. Note that Shinohara uses a ° and not an R. I don't know the reasoning behind that.
If you want me to scan the actual No. 7 turnout I can do that as time permits.
Hope that helps—
Good Luck, Ed
Benjamin Maggi I have seen various threads here (see below for one) and elsewhere on the internet saying that the Walthers code 83 curved switches (made by Shinohara) do not accurately list the curved radius measurments in the catalog. For example, Walthers lists itas a 24"R/20"R but others have said it is more like 24"R/16.5"R.
There are two different radius measurements to consider.
One is the drop-in replacement radius. The other is the MINIMUM radius. Perhaps that's where the difference is coming from.
RR_Mel Download the Walthers Turnout Templates. https://www.walthers.com/page/code83trackTemplate_grid.pdf
Edmund:Thanks. I believe the #7 will be too large for my layout space, which is why I am leaning towards the #6.5. My mainline minimum radius is 24" which is what the outside of the switch will be. The inside will lead to some storage tracks, but 16.5" radius (which is what some have said it is) might be too tight. Still, a template would be useful if you do happen to discover you have on on yoru layout. Thanks!
I have several each of all sizes of Walthers/Shinohara curved turnouts on my layout. I carefully checked the radii of each by overlaying them on a radius drawn on a board and also by checking with metal radius templates by Ribbonrail. Unless the manufacturer has changed them in the last 2-3 years, the radii are definitely misstated. The outer radii are correct, but the diverging radii are consistently overstated by exactly 2". Therefore, the actual radii are: 36/30, 32/26, 28/22 and 24/18. Trust me.
Dante
Benjamin MaggiThanks. I believe the #7 will be too large for my layout space, which is why I am leaning towards the #6.5.
Consider the PECO Code 83 turnout. Radii are larger, and about a #7 frog, but more compact than equivalent Walthers. I use them a lot for client projects and they seem to be working very well.
Templates:https://www.peco-uk.com/imageselector/Files/Track-templates/c83/SL-8376%20&%20SL-8377.pdf
Be sure to print them full size -- handy scale bar on the template page to double-check.
Byron
Layout Design GalleryLayout Design Special Interest Group
dante I have several each of all sizes of Walthers/Shinohara curved turnouts on my layout. I carefully checked the radii of each by overlaying them on a radius drawn on a board and also by checking with metal radius templates by Ribbonrail. Unless the manufacturer has changed them in the last 2-3 years, the radii are definitely misstated. The outer radii are correct, but the diverging radii are consistently overstated by exactly 2". Therefore, the actual radii are: 36/30, 32/26, 28/22 and 24/18. Trust me. Dante
Agreed. Its more like a 6 inch difference than the listed 4 inch. The outside radius is listed pretty accurately.
- Douglas
gmpullman, I just found this old and dormant thread while trying to find more data on Walthers curved switches, particualrly the arclength each main route defines. Have you measured the the arclengths subtended by the main route curve of thses switches. Taking rough numbers off your photographs I am able to calculate the #7 1/2 at approx 28.6 degrees and the #7 at approx. 31.1 degrees. Do these calculations in any way agree with your measurements if you have them?
Thanks and Cheers
Carl
SNCF_fangmpullman, I just found this old and dormant thread while trying to find more data on Walthers curved switches, particualrly the arclength each main route defines.
Hi, SNCF and Welcome!
I have a few "loose" curved turnouts that I will try to measure when time permits.
In some cases of the installed curved Shinohara turnouts I have shortened the diverging rails a bit so the arc length will be less.
Thank You, Ed
I compared my #7s to Kato 22" radius track sections, and the inner curve is almost identical.
.
That is good for me.
I hope this helped.
-Kevin
Living the dream.
Carl to the forum
Are you aware these turnouts are no longer available? They run around $50 on ebay.
Shinohara closed down, and Walthers has found someone else to manufacture their turnouts, but there is no word on curved turnouts.
Sorry to be a party pooper.
Henry
COB Potomac & Northern
Shenandoah Valley
They are still not too hard to find. They show up on auction sites, train shows, and old stock in model train shops.
I only use old style solid frog Shinohara turnouts, and had no problem getting the 50+ I need for my layout. It just takes time and money.
BigDaddy Carl to the forum Are you aware these turnouts are no longer available? They run around $50 on ebay. Sorry to be a party pooper.
I mostly see the Walthers Curved (#8 at least) go for around $35-40 range. During the past month or two I purchase one for $36 and another for $39 DCC friendly.
The DC versions sell for almost half that keep in mind if you are a DC user or don't mind converting to DCC friendly.
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
riogrande5761 How are these turnouts electricallyt different? Mike BigDaddy Carl to the forum Are you aware these turnouts are no longer available? They run around $50 on ebay. Sorry to be a party pooper. I mostly see the Walthers Curved (#8 at least) go for around $35-40 range. During the past month or two I purchase one for $36 and another for $39 DCC friendly. The DC versions sell for almost half that keep in mind if you are a DC user or don't mind converting to DCC friendly.
How are these turnouts electricallyt different?
Mike
riogrande5761The DC versions sell for almost half that keep in mind if you are a DC user or don't mind converting to DCC friendly. Add Quote to your Post
m sharpHow are these turnouts electrically different?
DCC Unfriendly or DC
The point tips are connected by a metal bar as are the hinges for the point rails. Meaning both point rails and are the same polarity and there is a potential for a short if a wheel hits the off side point rail.
Because they are power routing, both closure rails, the frog and the frog rails are one polarity (same polarity as the points). Both frog rails need to be isolated from the connecting tracks
DCC Friendly
Points are always of a different polarity as are both closure and both frog rails. The frog is insulated on both sides
gmpullman, It is just the main route arclength which I need as that is what defines the curve of the yard lead I am considering. A measurement plus/minus a few degress should be good enough for me to determine if this will fit the proposed location or not.
riogrande5761 BigDaddy Carl to the forum Are you aware these turnouts are no longer available? They run around $50 on ebay. Sorry to be a party pooper. I mostly see the Walthers Curved (#8 at least) go for around $35-40 range. During the past month or two I purchase one for $36 and another for $39 DCC friendly. The DC versions sell for almost half that keep in mind if you are a DC user or don't mind converting to DCC friendly.
Their no longer being in production is rather a bummer but yes I have found a few store websites that still list them so I'll have to make the decision as to whether or not I'm going to use these and move along a bit faster than I might usually do.
SNCF_fangmpullman, It is just the main route arclength which I need as that is what defines the curve of the yard lead I am considering. A measurement plus/minus a few degress should be good enough for me to determine if this will fit the proposed location or not.
If you look at the photo I posted there is a notation with the degree of arc written on each tag. These are the designations molded into the underside of each turnout. Those seem to agree with your calculations.
I will check again and update my reply if I gather more information.