Caboose handrails

[Flying Crow]

I am trying to create some way to replicate handrails that were found on KCS stainless steel cabooses in HO scale. There are multiple bends in various directions for these, so a simple grabiron bender won't seem to work. I have never really done this kind of stuff before so I am really stuck as to how to create a jig or something like that so I can repeat the process. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

[BigDaddy]

Welcome to the forum.  I did not know there were SS cabooses.  I'll bet they cost a pretty penny.

Sorry I am new at grab rail bending and don't have any advice but maybe a picture will bring the scratch builders out of the woodwork

 

[mlehman]

Most jigs for this are simply flat sheets of brass with holes appropriately spaced. With a caboose, you may have handrails that run into the 3rd dimension (without getting too picky about my rusty geometry.) Bend on the flat jig first, then form around styrene jig that provides a means to bend around a corner post, for example.

Be prepared to make as many do overs as needed as you develop your jigs into useful tools. They are a lot of work to get set up, then you have to run them consistently to get good results.

[DSchmitt]

Many plastic kit builders use tools from https://www.thesmallshop.com/

for bending photoetch and wire. 

[Flying Crow]

Everything about KCS's cabooses were unique.  I've got it all replicated by kitbashing the Walthers bay window caboose except for the weird wrap-around hand rails.  Too bad they were only done in brass and are as rare as hen's teeth.  I guess if Ajin can make the handrails, I can.  I just wish I knew how they did it instead of trying to re-invent the wheel.

[Flying Crow]

Thanks.  That looks like a good source for tools.

[Lee 1234]

Use a round nose or chain nose pliers for rounded bends.  They use these for jewelry so these are easy to get.  

[dknelson]

Flying Crow

I am trying to create some way to replicate handrails that were found on KCS stainless steel cabooses in HO scale.  

Well a bit of an internet search for KCS cabooses by me seems to show caboose handrails that looks pretty typical.  I gather that there is a particular caboose handrail that is giving you issues --but we (or at least, I) need more info to be of any help.

Dave Nelson

[mbinsewi]

I just did a search, and found a few pics, like the pic that Henry shows.  The handrails do seem a little different than most, the rails on the inside, and the sorta-typical outside corner post arrangement that supports the ladder, but I think any type of small jewelers tools, or small needle nose, or hemostat would work.

I thought the trucks looked way more non-prototypical, but on the same search, I seen that Shapeways offers a good look-a-like.

Mike.

[Flying Crow]

The curved rails are the issue because they wrap around to the porch and then have two supports with an angled crossbeam and then two more supports horizontally that attach to the body.

[Flying Crow]

Yes, I have the trucks from Shapeways.  Those Rockwell trucks are strange with the shock absorber.

[G Paine]

If you are looking for the typical curved caboose handrails for the sides, Detail Associates makes them. I have used them a lot

https://www.walthers.com/caboose-grab-irons-curved-ends-sides-pkg-5

Also the right angle ones for the caboose ends

https://www.walthers.com/caboose-grab-irons-l-shaped-ends-pkg-5

 

[hon30critter]

Hey Flying Crow!

Welcome to the forums!!!    

To make somewhat complex grab irons for my caboose fleet I followed doctorwayne's method of creating a styrene jig. The jig consists of one .040" piece of styrene sheet for the back, and two pieces of .040" styrene for the front. The front pieces have to be cut to form the profile for the bend(s) and placed just far enough apart that the wire can fit in between them. I recommend .0125" or .015" phosphor bronze wire from the Tichy Train Group:

https://www.tichytraingroup.com/Shop/tabid/91/c/ho_wire/Default.aspx

I use round tip pliers to form the bends. As someone mentioned, there is a bit of trial and error but once you have made a few you will have fewer rejects.

I'd love to show you a picture but since Photobucket decided to give us all the shaft I haven't been able to find my caboose pics.

Dave

 

[doctorwayne]

Dave's suggestion of phosphor bronze wire is a good one, as it's stiffer than soft brass wire, yet easy enough to bend (and will withstand some re-bending if your estimations were "off" a bit).  It's also easy to solder.  

Before you make any bends, draw a full length of your wire of choice through a folded-over piece of fine sandpaper several times.  This removes oxidation and will better facilitate soldering when you have to join pieces.  Wet/dry sandpaper, used dry, works well.

If your handrails run in three planes (it's difficult to make out the arrangement in the photo), I'd suggest fabricating each separately as far as possible, then joining them.  Looking at the separate assemblies, and better photos of the prototype, will help to suggest what you need to construct in the way of a jig in order to hold everything in proper relationship to accomplish the final assembly.

Here's a very simple jig that I use to create the corner grabirons used on the roofwalks of older house cars.  It's made from scraps of hard maple which I had laying around, and consists of a base about 1/4" thick with a thinner square piece (about .040") glued to it with yellow carpenter's glue.  At each corner of the thinner piece, a .015" hole was drilled through the base, then the corners of the thinner piece were cut off, as shown.  This is to accommodate the tip of the 25 watt soldering iron used for assembly.  The holes are that size because I use .0125" wire, and the slightly oversize hole makes insertion easier.  Where alignment is critical, the hole would be sized to suit the wire, but it's not an issue here - this is for mass production...well, four at a time anyway, and I often do ten or a dozen loadings at a time.
Beyond each corner is a peg of .030" piano wire - they're there to keep the pre-bent wire in place, as shown.

On top of the centre piece of wood is a pair of .010" piano wires...these posts are used to form the "eyes" which will support the corner of the formed grabiron:  using small, smooth-jawed, square-tipped pliers, a bend is made near the end of a piece of prepared .0125" phosphor bronze, then it's inserted between the two posts, with the bent portion pulled tight against one.  The same pliers are then used to wrap the bent end of the wire around the post as far as possible - for this use, the loop formed is not completely closed.  The posts are also useful for forming completely-closed eyebolts for other applications.
The hook-shaped pieces and then cut from the stock piece of wire and, using tweezers, inserted into the drilled hole of the jig and pressed down onto the pre-bent grabs.  I use the tip of a #11 blade or a small screwdriver to apply a bit of flux to each joint, and a touch with a small soldering iron completes the assembly.  The pictures probably explain it better...

Here's the semi-finished product.  The long arms will be bent to suit the particular roofwalk on thich they'll be installed...

Also shown in the photo above is a two-piece sill step for a baggage car.  It was made on another jig, set-up to do three different-sized ones at a time.  While these examples are much simpler than what you want to construct, you should be able to break-down yours into similar simple tasks.

I'll also offer a few tips for doing this kind of work.  I use an old X-Acto #11 blade to cut most wire.  It gives a cleaner cut than side cutters or pliers, is easier to make accurate cuts than with a cut-off disc, and, in most cases, requires little or no clean-up of the cut ends.  For this reason (and several others) I work on a sheet of glass, but any hard surface will do for the cutting.  Use a firm pressing action and only the heel of the blade and be sure to restrain both pieces while making the cut.

When making multiple soldered connections on one assembly, protect previously made joints by wrapping them with small wads of wet tissue or paper towel material.  I also use this method when soldering assemblies together where they cannot be pre-built and are intended for installation on plastic models, like this curved-rung ladder for a Bachmann tender...

...soldered together on the plastic tender.

 This caboose isn't as complicated as yours appears to be, and includes some commercial parts (the curved and right-angle grabs on the body are from Detail Associates).  However, the ladders and end handrails are all built-up, either on jigs or formed on simple three-dimensional patterns to ensure consistency...

 

Wayne

 

[BigDaddy]

There are much better detailed pics, but the ones I found were copyrighted.

Looking at Wayne's caboose, the standard curved grab iron on the side, takes a right angle at the back of the caboose and runs parallel to the back of the caboose on the inside end of the steps to form a railing with 2 vertical stanchions.

Wayne thanks for the description, I need to form end rails on a laser cut wood caboose and I will use your ideas.  There was a Details Associate kit for that but it is NLA.

 

[Flying Crow]

Thank you.  This is some great information.  I will try the bronze wire as the brass seems to take a lot of persuading.