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neodymium magnets

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neodymium magnets
Posted by graymatter on Friday, September 08, 2017 11:18 PM

I descovered a safer way to 'pole push' a frieght car on an adjaecent track.

Still working on a way to turn it off.

Good thing I built a test track first

Thomas J SimpsonLaugh

 More details on video, This is a locomotive with an open frame motor that has neodymium magnets. The problem is these powerful magnets stacked up in the electric motor attrack ANY metal laying around the track, nails and screws and rolling stock with metal plates. The locomotive can pull or crawl up a grade without stalling. Traction is the limiting factor for the 4-6-2 on a grade.

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Posted by BNSF UP and others modeler on Sunday, June 03, 2018 8:58 PM

Soooo... you made a stronger motor using neodymium magnets?

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  • From: Collinwood, Ohio, USA
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Posted by gmpullman on Sunday, June 03, 2018 9:05 PM

graymatter
The problem is these powerful magnets stacked up in the electric motor attrack ANY metal laying around the track, nails and screws and rolling stock with metal plates.

I followed the example of RR Mel and built a magnetic pick-up car. I was amazed at how much ferrous rubble it has picked up! Better here than in speakers and motors!

 IMG_7270_fix by Edmund, on Flickr

 IMG_7268_fix by Edmund, on Flickr

Thanks for sharing!

Ed

 

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Posted by BNSF UP and others modeler on Sunday, June 03, 2018 9:55 PM

Oh, whoops, I was way off.

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Posted by gmpullman on Sunday, June 03, 2018 10:25 PM

BNSF UP and others modeler

Soooo... you made a stronger motor using neodymium magnets?

 

Oh, whoops, I was way off.

No, you weren't off at all. Often, new "rare-earth" magnets will give an old Pittman or other open frame motor a new lease on life:

http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/88/p/265702/3002771.aspx

My reply was in regards to the stronger magnets picking up stray bits off the roadbed, where a pick-up car can help mitigate the amount of ferrous debris left behind on the R-of-W.

Cheers, Ed

 

 

 

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Posted by doctorwayne on Sunday, June 03, 2018 11:25 PM

gmpullman
....No, you weren't off at all. Often, new "rare-earth" magnets will give an old Pittman or other open frame motor a new lease on life...

A friend gave me the brass locomotive, pictured below, because it wouldn't pull enough cars...

After replacing the magnets in the open-frame motor, I added some weight to both loco and tender, and gave it a new paint job.  Next time the friend visited, I stage a run-past with the loco easily dragging 20 cars of various rolling qualities and generally heavier-than-recommended weights. He was stunned, but declined my offer to return the locomotive to him, as he had already found a replacement (which I later modified in a similar manner).

Wayne

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Posted by garya on Monday, June 04, 2018 11:59 AM

graymatter

I descovered a safer way to 'pole push' a frieght car on an adjaecent track.

...

 More details on video, This is a locomotive with an open frame motor that has neodymium magnets. The problem is these powerful magnets stacked up in the electric motor attrack ANY metal laying around the track, nails and screws and rolling stock with metal plates. The locomotive can pull or crawl up a grade without stalling. Traction is the limiting factor for the 4-6-2 on a grade.

 

I've been replacing magnets in Bowser and Mantua Steam loco kits with neodymium "supermagnets."  I haven't had that happen to me yet, but I should probably experiment.  

 SUPERMAGNETS

I have had them suck up nails, screws, and a spare Kadee coupler or two while working on the loco on my bench...

Gary
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  • From: Reading, PA
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Posted by rrinker on Monday, June 04, 2018 5:29 PM

 I'd like to see how the brakes work when a strong magnet car rolls over a kadee uncoupler...

I don't use magnetic uncouplers so a magnet car wouldn;t cause problems for me. 

Just don't ask Gerry Leone how to pronounce neodymium Big Smile

                              --Randy


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

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Posted by RR_Mel on Monday, June 04, 2018 6:15 PM

rrinker

 I'd like to see how the brakes work when a strong magnet car rolls over a kadee uncoupler...

 

                              --Randy

 

Randy
 
I haven’t taken a picture after applying the brakes, but it does happen.  I’ve had it derail a pair of 2½ pound E7s.  I push my magnet toting flat car at a creep and even then it can cause havoc.
 
The Kadee couplers are pretty good, I use the 118 Shelf Couplers on my E7s and haven’t broken one yet.  
 
 
Mel
 
 
My Model Railroad   
 
Bakersfield, California
 
I'm beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.
 
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Posted by emdmike on Monday, June 04, 2018 6:17 PM

The old Alinco magnets in open frame motors loosing thier strength was a known issue back when these were new.  Pittman and others advertised Remagnitizing services in old issues of Model Railroad and RMC way back when.  There just was not another option for the magnets back then.  These new magnets will restore the power those old motors really have. Most better quality ones will run smooth and quiet, with plenty of torque for slow speed crawling or starting heavy trains.  The motor will also run cooler and not foul the communtator as quickly with a healthy magnet.   Do this service to the motor, isolate the other motor brush and your ready to DCC it.      Mike the Aspie

Silly NT's, I have Asperger's Syndrome

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Posted by rrinker on Tuesday, June 05, 2018 5:47 PM

RR_Mel

 

 
rrinker

 I'd like to see how the brakes work when a strong magnet car rolls over a kadee uncoupler...

 

                              --Randy

 

 

 

Randy
 
I haven’t taken a picture after applying the brakes, but it does happen.  I’ve had it derail a pair of 2½ pound E7s.  I push my magnet toting flat car at a creep and even then it can cause havoc.
 
The Kadee couplers are pretty good, I use the 118 Shelf Couplers on my E7s and haven’t broken one yet.  
 
 
Mel
 
 
My Model Railroad   
 
Bakersfield, California
 
I'm beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.
 
 

 I have Kadees take the long plunge to the poured concrete canyon floor and not be damaged - there's a reason i use only real kadees in everything. Conversely, I've had new, still sealed P2K locos, when still Life Like, and they used those horrible plastic couplers, come out of the box with a broken coupler. I just recently picked up a pair of box cars with the new Proto-Max metal couplers but I haven't even taken them out of the box yet. Supposed to be pretty good - but I'll probably swap for Kadees.

                              --Randy

 


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

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Posted by drgwcs on Tuesday, June 05, 2018 10:23 PM

Why am I thinking of the joke John Allen pulled with magnets in the end on two freight cars. It was intended to frustrate operators by not letting them uncouple. It was better when they repulsed though. He would advise the operator to corner the car on a siding so it would not get away. When they passed one another they would always derail.

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Posted by SouthPenn on Wednesday, June 06, 2018 9:49 AM
South Penn
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Posted by Southgate on Tuesday, June 12, 2018 3:59 PM

Has anyone used these magnets in the old Mantua-Tyco open frame motors, or just in the Pittman and other better quality motors? If so, how do they work in the Mantuas?  Dan

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Posted by garya on Wednesday, June 13, 2018 11:00 AM

Southgate

Has anyone used these magnets in the old Mantua-Tyco open frame motors, or just in the Pittman and other better quality motors? If so, how do they work in the Mantuas?  Dan

 

I did it with my Little Six motor:

Mantua Motor

It works ok, but it still takes some volts to get moving.

Unlike the Bowser/Pittman motor, which is bolted together, I had to cut off the rivet with my Dremel to get the old magnet out.  It took four of the magnets but didn't need shimming, so I used superglue to keep everything together.

The Bowser motors take 5 magnets and a shim:

Motors

Gary
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Posted by Southgate on Thursday, June 14, 2018 12:12 AM

Thanks, Gary. That helps to know. Where did you get your magnets?

I thought I'd do a little experimenting here. I ran a stock mantua motor, noted current draw and such, then I stuck a 3/8" cube magnet on the back of the motor just to see how it would run. After trial and error orienting the poles, it improved the smoothness of the motor, still about the same current draw.

When I removed the magnet, well, the little loco wouldnt run at all! I appearently demagnetized the original enough to pretty much kill what was left of it. I'll be buying some neo-mags pretty soon anyway.Tongue Tied  Dan

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Posted by garya on Thursday, June 14, 2018 3:12 PM

Southgate

Thanks, Gary. That helps to know. Where did you get your magnets?

I thought I'd do a little experimenting here. I ran a stock mantua motor, noted current draw and such, then I stuck a 3/8" cube magnet on the back of the motor just to see how it would run. After trial and error orienting the poles, it improved the smoothness of the motor, still about the same current draw.

When I removed the magnet, well, the little loco wouldnt run at all! I appearently demagnetized the original enough to pretty much kill what was left of it. I'll be buying some neo-mags pretty soon anyway.Tongue Tied  Dan

 

I did the same thing with the Mantua motor above.  Tongue Tied  I held some magnets near it to get an idea of how well they would fit, and killed the magnet.

I got my magnets from CMS Magnetics.  They have a variety of magnets and shapes.  I used 1/2x1/4x1/8 block magnets but look around and see if something else will work for you.

 

Gary
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Posted by NVSRR on Thursday, June 14, 2018 8:02 PM

I am having a bunch of ideas for magnets on a layout. Will have get a bunch and see what works

A pessimist sees a dark tunnel

An optimist sees the light at the end of the tunnel

A realist sees a frieght train

An engineer sees three idiots standing on the tracks stairing blankly in space

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Posted by Ron High on Friday, June 15, 2018 9:17 AM

I have used magnets from this company

https://www.kjmagnetics.com/

They have all shapes and sizes I use # B428 which is a 1/4x1/8x1/2  N52. The N52 is a rating of magnetic strength there also N42 which is a little less strong .The price difference is a few pennies for the higher strength.

I used these on Pittman DC 70 motors in Hobbytown drives . Benefits are more power even better slow speed control a slight drop in current draw,about 2 tenths of amp less. I have done this on about 20 Hobbytowns.

It is very important not to leave an air gap between magnets and pole pieces. A good way to fill this gap is xacto blades. Use some old blades and break off the end that mounts in the tool,unless you want the sharp end in your motor. Most of the time you only need one blade. Leaving an air gap will degrade the performance of your motor.

This is a good upgrade of an open frame motor will cost 2.00 to 3.00 and 1/2 hour of your time .

Ron High

 

PS if you find your engine is running in the opposite direction of other factory unmodified engines you will need to flip your magnet stack which will correct the direction.This is very obvious in DC only operation.

 

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Posted by BANDOJAMBO on Tuesday, June 19, 2018 4:50 AM

With a little know how one could even power a locomotive and even an entire layout with neodymium magnets and copper coils as there is not anything else required to produce usable electricity other then those two components.  There are tons of examples on youtube but nothing specifically tailrored to model railroads could be a good opportunity for someone looking to something truly unique.

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