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Walthers DCC friendly double crossover?

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  • Member since
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  • From: Edmonton, Canada
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Walthers DCC friendly double crossover?
Posted by gpharo on Tuesday, July 04, 2017 10:03 AM

I am debating on purchasing an HO scale Walthers double crossover #6 (the DCC friendly version, part# 948-8812).  I did a little bit of research and I can't find too much information, and the reviews seem mixed.

If anyone has any experience with this crossover, your opinion and experiences would be greatly appreciated.  Do you recommend it? This crossover is expensive and I want to be certain.

 

Thanks in advance,

  • Member since
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  • From: Southern Florida Gulf Coast
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Posted by SeeYou190 on Tuesday, July 04, 2017 10:24 AM

Please post some experienced responses... I plan to use one of these also!

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I really need to know it is a good product. Mine will be on my outside mainline where three trains will operate.

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1) Rivarossi Heavyweight Passenger train pulled by either a GS-4 4-8-4 or an A/B set of Athearn PAs.

2) IHC Lightweight Passenger train pulled by A/B set of Stewart F-7s.

3) Long Freight Train pulled by either an EM-1 2-8-8-4 or an A/B/A set of Stewart F-7s.

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Let us know!!! Thanks.

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-Kevin

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Happily modeling the STRATTON & GILLETTE RAILROAD located in a world of plausible nonsense set in August, 1954.

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Posted by RR_Mel on Tuesday, July 04, 2017 10:45 AM

Many years ago I bought a Walthers code 83 double crossover (1991) and it worked very good with RP25 wheels but not with any articulated Rivarossi deep flange wheels.  Over the years I tried many code 83 double crossovers and none would pass the Rivarossi deep flange wheels. 
 
That was running DC not DCC, I cut my layout over to dual mode DC or DCC in 2006.  In 2012 I finally made my own double crossover using Atlas code 83 turnouts.
 
It has worked flawlessly with my Rivarossi fleet equipped with DCC decoders.
   
 
 
Mel
 
Modeling the early to mid 1950s SP in HO scale since 1951
 
My Model Railroad   
 
Bakersfield, California
 
I'm beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.
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Posted by BATMAN on Tuesday, July 04, 2017 10:49 AM

I bought mine years ago and have not regretted it. The only issue I have had with it is when I bought a BS 4-4-0 and it would not make it over the frog without stalling, this also happened on my larger T/Os as well. A quick solution for me was the Tam Valley Frog Juicers. I bought a bunch on sale, wired up any frog that gave me trouble and have some spares in the drawer. You can also use switch machines to wire the frog.                                                                           

Mechanically it has been perfect and though not seen much on prototypes, I wanted one.Laugh

 

Brent

It's not the age honey, it's the mileage.

https://www.youtube.com/user/BATTRAIN1

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Posted by richhotrain on Tuesday, July 04, 2017 10:52 AM

At one time I had three Walthers Shinohara #6 double crossovers.  I still have one on my layout, having sold the other two as I made changes to my track configuration over time.  Overall, they are reliable but not without problems.

I have never experienced derailments on these double crossovers, but I have experienced power losses on some of the rail segments. The jumpers which are located on the underside of the double crossover and connect the various rail segments can and do come loose over time. Currently, I have a number of wires soldered onto the rail segments where the jumpers have failed.

I believe that a big part of the problem is the size of the double crossover and, therefore, its flexibility.  If you provide a solid base so that it is less likely to flex, you may not have the power losses that I have experienced from failed jumpers. My road bed is Woodland Scenics Foam Track Bed and that is not sufficient as a base for the double crossover.

Rich

Alton Junction

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Posted by SeeYou190 on Tuesday, July 04, 2017 2:33 PM

Sorry, I should have been more clear. My Rivarossi and AHM car all have new trucks and/or wheels with code 110 RP-25 profiles.

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No deep flanges for me.

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-Kevin

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Happily modeling the STRATTON & GILLETTE RAILROAD located in a world of plausible nonsense set in August, 1954.

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  • From: Edmonton, Canada
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Posted by gpharo on Tuesday, July 04, 2017 5:54 PM

Thank you for your responses so far...

Batman and Richhotrain thank, I assume you are refering to the Walthers version, not the Shinohara.  If so, I thought the DCC friendly Walthers version (948-8812) would not have dead spots that require frog juicers or extra wires.  Please clarify?

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Posted by richhotrain on Tuesday, July 04, 2017 7:01 PM

gpharo

Thank you for your responses so far...

Batman and Richhotrain thank, I assume you are refering to the Walthers version, not the Shinohara.  If so, I thought the DCC friendly Walthers version (948-8812) would not have dead spots that require frog juicers or extra wires.  Please clarify?

 

I am referring to the Walthers Shinohara (#948-8812) #6 Double Crossover, the DCC Friendly one. That double crossover has metal frogs, but they are unpowered out of the box. There are not supposed to be dead spots on the rails but, as I mentioned, the jumpers can loosen and lose contact with the connecting rails resulting in dead spots. When that happens, an entire rail segment will lose power.

Rich

Alton Junction

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Posted by Drumguy on Tuesday, July 04, 2017 8:29 PM

I installed one a few months ago. Had a bit of hesitation with buying it as some reviewers had issues with the ends (stock rails? Turnout nomenclature is not my forte...) bending inward a bit. Indeed mine had that issue but was a simple matter of pinning the rails in place after connecting to the parallel tracks. Parallel tracks are secured with caulk. crossover has a few very small dabs of caulk. Once everything was dry, nothing moved after removing pins. Everything from F units to articulated steamers runs fine at any speed whichever way the crossover is set.  Had a minor problem with an 0-8-0, but soldering a few xtra feeders solved that. Have one box car that always derails on it, but obviously that's the car not the track.

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Posted by SouthPenn on Tuesday, July 04, 2017 10:39 PM

I have two code 83 DCC friendly and two code 100 non DCC friendly Shinohara/Walthers double crossovers. All have been working fine for years. Any problems I have had can be traced back to the rolling stock.

ymmv.

South Penn
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Posted by SeeYou190 on Friday, July 07, 2017 11:04 PM

It sounds like the Walthers/Shinohara Code 83 DCC ready #6 double crossover is a good reliable product.

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Thank you for all the information.

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-Kevin

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Happily modeling the STRATTON & GILLETTE RAILROAD located in a world of plausible nonsense set in August, 1954.

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Posted by richhotrain on Saturday, July 08, 2017 4:43 AM

SeeYou190

It sounds like the Walthers/Shinohara Code 83 DCC ready #6 double crossover is a good reliable product. 

It is, but it is somewhat fragile, so place it on a stable base and leave it there, undisturbed. 

Rich

Alton Junction

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Posted by SeeYou190 on Saturday, July 08, 2017 9:46 AM

For all my HO layouts I have installed the turnouts without soldering the rail joints, and pretty much stock from the box. I run individual feeders to the turnouts for wire connections. I use good old Elmer's white glue to hold the ballast.

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This make the turnouts not-too-terrible to replace. Soak the glue, slide the rail joiners, cut the feeders, and lift it out.

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I have found that model railroad turnouts can... and occasionally do... fail in service. I am not up to tinkering with them so much anymore, so they must be replaceable.

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-Kevin

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Happily modeling the STRATTON & GILLETTE RAILROAD located in a world of plausible nonsense set in August, 1954.

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Posted by Expresstrack on Wednesday, July 11, 2018 6:51 AM

I recently installed three Shinohara/Walthers double crossover devices on the layout I am building. I decide today that I was far enough along to test the devices. I discovered that all three are “defective” in that my test engines stalled half-way through the turnout. I checked the jumpers installed underneath by Shinohara and could find no breaks. I cleaned the track. Tested the engines on the other track…same outcome. I did some online research and found a note on Tony’s Trains indicating the Shinohara was out of business and Walthers has no stock…so no returning these. Any suggestions before I remove them from the layout? Thanks.

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Posted by dknelson on Wednesday, July 11, 2018 9:43 AM

Don't be too hasty.  Quite apart from what the test locomotive does, what does actual testing with two leads and a bulb show as the "dead zone" -- where and how extensive and what can some wire with alligator clips on both ends to do change things

  There are things that can be done with turnouts and dead spots.  Re-doing the jumpers might be step one.  At this point you have little to lose.  

Dave Nelson

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Posted by selector on Wednesday, July 11, 2018 10:55 AM

With points thrown to either side, and also with them centered, meter every metal rail segment.  You're looking for nominal voltage for the scale you're using.

I have one of those #6 DCC-friendly W/S double-crossovers.  My complaint was that the flange-ways were not smooth, and they still aren't great even with a lot of finnicky filing using a needle file.  But they work electrically.  I make sure the points are nice'n tight against their stock companions, and then test the connectivity.

I have used it twice now...two layouts.  Both times it was ballasted, including gluing the ballast carefully.  This doesn't seem to have impacted the electrical connections adversely.

I do have to ensure the rail tops, the bearing surfaces, are scrupulously cleared of any crud after the ballast has dried.  From there, with active electrical feed at all eight rails leading into the appliance, meaning eight soldered joiners, I have enjoyed its use as intended.

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Posted by Expresstrack on Wednesday, July 11, 2018 11:53 AM

 

Further…I believe the reason there is no power on one half of the crossover is because of the plastic insert in the straight closure rail (see arrows in photo). Testing with a meter showed power until it reached this piece of plastic. I checked to see if the jumper strips were designed to address this issue and as far as I can tell, they do not (see second photo). Has anyone encountered this same problem?

 

 

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Posted by selector on Wednesday, July 11, 2018 4:56 PM

Hmmm....when I metered my appliance, I decided to test all of the segments, every one, to see if they were powered.  Every one of mine is powered, no matter where it is or how small it is.  Perhaps quality assurance was slipping at the time.  Even so, you could take a single strand of a small gauge braided wire and cut a small length to fit hidden either under the ties or low atop them essentially out of site once painted.  Solder each end and you have power to the dead lengths.  I had to to that to a single closure rail, not the pair, in a three-way switch.

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Posted by BigDaddy on Wednesday, July 11, 2018 5:20 PM

Expresstrack
see second photo

No go on either photo.  There is a sticky on how to posts photos in the General Forum.  It has to be on a photohosting site (not google or facebook), unless you have your own web page.

Double crossovers are too much of a challenge for my dyslexia, but they wouldn't be manufactuing crossovers with dead rails by design.

Are you familiar with this site?  http://www.wiringfordcc.com/switches.htm

Henry

COB Potomac & Northern

By the Chesapeake Bay

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Posted by rfbrown1972 on Thursday, October 04, 2018 9:34 PM

Hello Expresstrack,

Just wondering if you ever resolved the problem you posted about on the double crossover switch.  I have the same switch and am having the same problem.  There’s no power on the switch when an engine crosses the midway plastic inserts in each rail.  I’ve tried it installed in the both directions and get the same results.  I have put a volt meter on it and the entering half all has power (13.1 v for my layout) while the second half of the switch has no power.  Any help is appreciated

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Posted by Expresstrack on Monday, October 08, 2018 6:29 PM

The solution for me was to solder a small bare wire to the inside of the point rails bridging the plastic gap in the middle of the turnout. Once I did this the power went across the gap and the other half of the turnout was electrified. I was able to drive an engine straight ahead and across the turnout without any problems. I am still puzzled as to why Shinohara opted to put a (plastic) gap in the point rails since the turnout was clearly unpowered on one side. If my explanation is not clear, I can send you a photo of my solution.
 
Good luck. Let me know how things work out.

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