Trains.com

Subscriber & Member Login

Login, or register today to interact in our online community, comment on articles, receive our newsletter, manage your account online and more!

Rivarossi Gear Boxes

3279 views
7 replies
1 rating 2 rating 3 rating 4 rating 5 rating
  • Member since
    April 2017
  • 53 posts
Rivarossi Gear Boxes
Posted by Mantua Man on Thursday, June 8, 2017 8:54 PM

Hello All!

If you have seen any of my recent posts you will notice that I have spent much of  my resources converting an old rivarossi of mine. After running it  around my clubs layout the locomotive ended up completely stopping about halfway through the layout with a 21 truck load. This has happened over and over again, seeming to just wear the motor out. The motor is brand new and has more than enough power to run the locomotive but appears to run much slower than just regular load bearing on the motor. My only assumption of this situation is that the gearing in the old Rivarossi is geared for a very low speed setting. My question is whether or not Rivarossi, or some other company has or still is producing faster geared gearboxes. My hope is that I am able to switch the upper gearboxes in the old Rivarossi and replace them with a faster, and more powerful gearing. Any suggestions or other ideas would be very helpful.

Thanks All!

  • Member since
    September 2003
  • From: California - moved to North Carolina 2018
  • 4,422 posts
Posted by DSchmitt on Thursday, June 8, 2017 9:14 PM

Doubt it is a gear problem.  Problem is probably the motor.  

Check to see if the motor is getting too hot . An overheated motor will stop, then work again after cooling,

I tried to sell my two cents worth, but no one would give me a plug nickel for it.

I don't have a leg to stand on.

  • Member since
    November 2015
  • 1,340 posts
Posted by ATSFGuy on Thursday, June 8, 2017 11:54 PM

Sound equipped units will freeze and short out sometimes, they can get very hot as well.

  • Member since
    January 2009
  • From: Bakersfield, CA 93308
  • 6,526 posts
Posted by RR_Mel on Friday, June 9, 2017 8:28 AM

I have re-motored 19 Rivarossi articulateds using either Canon EN22s or Faulhaber 2224RS motors, all work very good.  With out going back to your earlier posts I think you went with a Canon EN22.  There are several flavors of the Canon EN22 motor.  Measure the DC resistance of the motor, it should be between 10 to 12 ohms for a 12 volt winding.
 
The 12 volt Canon EN22 runs between 5500 and 6000 RPM under load, the Rivarossi motors are rated at 5000 RPM under load.
 
A Canon 12 volt EN22 will run warm to the touch, not hot.
 
 
Edit:
 
The Rivarossi gear ratios run at 1:13 to 1:15, you shouldn’t need to change the gear ratio in a Rivarossi locomotive.
 
 
 
Mel
 
Modeling the early to mid 1950s SP in HO scale since 1951
 
My Model Railroad   
 
Bakersfield, California
 
I'm beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.
  • Member since
    June 2005
  • 4,353 posts
Posted by Darth Santa Fe on Friday, June 9, 2017 1:53 PM

If you take the motor out and turn the gearbox shaft by hand, does it turn freely, or is it stiff? Do you feel any binding in the mechanism that could put excess stress on the motor? Also, do you have a way to test the current draw when it's running on track? With a newer motor, it shouldn't be more than 0.2 to 0.3 amps running free.

_________________________________________________________________

  • Member since
    April 2017
  • 53 posts
Posted by Mantua Man on Friday, June 9, 2017 4:58 PM

I tested the locomotives Amperage draw when I first ran it with DCC and it topped at .5-.6 amps at full throttle; according to canons schematics, this is normal for the motor running free, which I would assume is good. I have not tested the ohms yet. I will try to test the ohm reading next time i'm at the club. if it helps any, while running on DCC, I have to set the throttle to about 60 before the locomotive even moves; I have no idea why this is. As for the binding issues, no. There is no to little risistance on the drive train of the locomotive. I had it serviced a while back to insure that there was no damage to the gearing caused by the previous owner. The gearing runs just fine when I run i use my fingers, as I said before, it was serviced, by a friend of mine who matinances old locos for a living. Based on all of this I have absolutely no idea why my locomotive is running so poorly. If I am missing something please let me know, because I have run out of ideas as to why my loco is running so badSigh

  • Member since
    January 2009
  • From: Bakersfield, CA 93308
  • 6,526 posts
Posted by RR_Mel on Friday, June 9, 2017 6:25 PM

Mantua Man

I tested the locomotives Amperage draw when I first ran it with DCC and it topped at .5-.6 amps at full throttle; according to canons schematics, this is normal for the motor running free, which I would assume is good.

 

You must have something binding in your gear/drive on your locomotive if it has a can motor.  I have a Rivarossi Cab Forward with two Canon EN22 motors and at no load (locomotive on it’s side nothing touching the wheels) the current draw for both Canon motors is .16 amps at 12 VDC. 
 
This particular locomotive has an additional 10 ounces of weight and the current draw pulling 10 over weight cars up my 3½% grade is .58 amps at 7.6 volts, scale speed is roughly 30 MPH.
 
I seldom run my steam faster than a scale 35 MPH
 
 
 
EDIT:
 

I run dual mode on my layout, DC for non sound and DCC for sound.
 
All of my Rivarossi articulated locomotives but one are wired for DCC.  I have two oil tenders with Soundtraxx Tsunami 826105 sound decoders, when I want to run my SP steam articulateds with sound I use a tender with a Soundtraxx decoder.
 
Three of my Rivarossi articulated locomotives have two Canon motors, two AC-12 Cab Forwards and one AC-9 Yellowstone.  The AC-9 is a kitbashed AC-12.  The rest have either a single Canon EN22 or a single Faulhaber 2224RS motor.  None draw more than 900ma on either DC or DCC with sound and lighting on at full load.
 
 
 
 
Mel
 
Modeling the early to mid 1950s SP in HO scale since 1951
 
My Model Railroad   
 
Bakersfield, California
 
I'm beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.
  • Member since
    April 2017
  • 53 posts
Posted by Mantua Man on Thursday, June 29, 2017 1:26 PM

Hello.  I haven't been able to respond recently due to some family matters,  though while I was away, i had the locomotive tested on a shops dcc test track.  With the assistance of a dcc programming system, a worker there found out the decoder was programmed for slow speed operations and low rpm. The worker graciously reprogrammed the decoder to a different setting and the locomotive runs with a greater rpm now.  I will be testing the locomotive at the club's layout on the 6th. It was able to hual a 21 freight load before,  so I will test it's power and load limit. Hopefully all goes well. I will let you all know on its performance.

Subscriber & Member Login

Login, or register today to interact in our online community, comment on articles, receive our newsletter, manage your account online and more!

Search the Community

ADVERTISEMENT
ADVERTISEMENT
ADVERTISEMENT
Model Railroader Newsletter See all
Sign up for our FREE e-newsletter and get model railroad news in your inbox!