I bought this off the White Elephant table. It is mostly assembled and painted black but no holes were drilled for grabirons, trucks and couplers (which were all included in the box) There is a K-brake that is unattached and unpainted.
Where exactly do I drill the hole for the trucks and what size screw should I use? 2-56 is generally my go to screw size but I don't want to drill all the way through the deck.
Do holes in resin need to be tapped?
Is that all the brake rigging that is usually included in an F&C kit?
Henry
COB Potomac & Northern
Shenandoah Valley
You may want to look at the F&C entries in HO Seeker instructions for some assembly tips. They likely do not have this particular car but some of the sequences can still be useful.
Some things to note. First, the bolsters seem to be missing from the floor, and that is what you would actually mount the trucks to, not the end of the center sill. Second, the coupler pocket looks like it was glued or cemented a bit off center to the center sill.
F&C seems not to sell parts, but Tichy offers freight car bolsters in plastic. There are other makes. Back in the day I used to use Selley cast white metal bolsters when scratch building.
This page from an F&C hopper kit does suggest 2-56 for the trucks, in the bolsters, but shallow: 1/16"
http://hoseeker.net/funaro/funarocamerlengo6180southernwoodsealyhopperpg2.jpg
What I have sometime done on difficult flatcars and gons is to use the black nylon screws that Kadee sells
https://www.walthers.com/2-56-insulated-nylon-screws-1-2-quot-1-27cm-pkg-12
and if it comes through the top of the car, I cut it flush with rail nippers. Yeah it shows, but not much.
As to the K brake, that casting looks blunt in detail to me. Is it really F&C? Note that the page from the instructions sheet above refers to F&C using Tichy brake parts for that car, and it says "add appropriate piping" so it seems F&C expects its customers to know how K and AB brakes are mounted and piped. Not an unreasonable expectation given the nature of the kits.
Dave Nelson
Thanks Dave
Yes the coupler is off center, less so than it looks in the photo. I don't think it's worth grinding it off to recenter it.
I don't know is any of the other parts are original. The brake does look like it is resin and the detail is rather crude. Looks like I need the Tichy K brake set, though I am not big on modeling stuff that you can't see.
Ah the bolster, I meant to ask specifically about that. I don't see how the flat Tichy bolster would play well with the center sill. So far I haven't found an online pic of the underbelly of this car. I am hoping someone out there can post one.
This one is model 1021 If they haven't changed their castings too much, maybe I can talk them into bringing a bolster to the next Timonium show
Here's Tichy's KC brake gear on a tankcar...
In addition to the combined valve/cylinder/reservoir casting shown, it comes with several brake levers and brake wheels, and the associated hardware needed for installation. A small instruction sheet is included. The Tichy part number is 3005.
Not included is the brake rigging and piping, but if you wish to model it, Tichy also offers various sizes of phosphor-bronze wire. I use .0125" for the brake rods, .015" for the piping, and .008" (a little oversize) for the retainer line. If you're using a staff-type handbrake, .020" will work, and for a power handbrake mechanism, .0125" or .015" is suitable.
The Tichy bolsters should work on that car,but you'll need to cut the centre sill so that the bolsters can sit (with the car upside-down as shown) atop the longitudinal stringers, or, if that makes the car sit too high, also cut the stringers so that the bolsters can be cemented directly to the underside of the floor.Each bolster should be located so that the truck-mounting screw will be about 5'6"(HO) from the end of the car.
Wayne
doctorwayneEach bolster should be located so that the truck-mounting screw will be about 5'6"(HO) from the end of the car.
That's good to know. I hadn't thought about the exact bolster height, but it's got to match the couplers, within the width of a KD washer or so.
Thanks for the pic too. I'd like to see how it's handled with the fishbelly sill this car has.
The prototype, as far as I can tell, is RDG. First, I would contact F&C to find out whether you can buy an instruction sheet from them. These sheets usually include a diagram that tells about truck type and spacing, grabiron placement, etc. Whether F&C can provide this or not, you might do well to contact the Reading Technical & Historical Society for information, photo references, etc.
You definitely need some sort of bolster. The Tichy bolster suggested would probably work quite well. Since the brake information is not there, you would probably do well to also buy a Tichy brake set. It gives all the parts needed for the option of K or the more modern AB brake, with installation guidelines. These kits normally assume that the modeler already has a certain amount of knowledge of these systems, and the Tichy instructions can provide helpful information.
The grabiron drilling locations are usually indicated by very small dimples in the parts. Since this car is prepainted, it is possible that these dimples were inadvertently filled with paint. The instructions or prototype information and photos should help you figure out where to drill.
You are correct that a 2-56 screw is normally used for the trucks. These can present a problem in open cars such as this because of limited clearance between the screw end and the floor. Some cars have a sub-floor that helps. Ideally, you drill the hole in the sub-floor, tap for 2-56, and install the truck for a test fit by attaching it in the normal way with the 2-56 screw. Then you trim the top surface of the screw to be flush with the top surface of the sub-floor. Some of the more detailed cars have a second "finish" floor that goes over this and hides the screw end with a more detailed floor. If your car doesn't have a second "finish" floor, then the best thing is to use putty to blend the screw end into the visible floor as best you can, paint it, and weather it so that it all looks like one surface. Of course, adding a load can eliminate any concerns and would make it possible to mount the trucks with simple bolts and nuts, since the evidence would be hidden anyway.
Tom
I generally do not use model bolsters provided with F&C or Westerfield kits. No one can see them anyway. You will get better operation with a piece of 0.080" by 0.125" styrene strip, and it will hold threads better than resin will. In open cars I generally drill the truck mounting screws all the way through to get as much thread contact as possible. Then I mount the trucks and run a nut down from the top to act as a jamb to keep the screws from backing out.
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I also drill the coupler mounting screw holes all the way through. An installed load will hide all of this.
All holes should be drilled #50 and tapped 2-56.
Remove the glued on coupler box and instead screw mount your boxes. They will eventually need maintenance and you will need to be able to remove them.
If you are modelling anything near the transition era go ahead and get the Tichy AB brake set instead of the K brake.
-Kevin
Living the dream.
The 1021 is shown as "sold out" on Walthers' website, and is not shown at all on the F&C website. But at least Walthers has a useful photo of the model which it says is Baltimore and Ohio
https://www.walthers.com/40-composite-gondola-w-decal-baltimore-ohio
I do use model bolsters but agree that unless your cars tip over on their sides a lot few would notice if you used a strip of styrene that indeed might hold screw threads better
I have the original instructions and they are minimal at best. I will scan them and post them tomorrow if anyone in the future needs them. Yes they came with B&O decals and Silver Streak trucks.
Thanks for the suggestions.
BigDaddy...I'd like to see how it's handled with the fishbelly sill this car has.
...or if you want the slightly more modern KD (split K)...
...or the AB system introduced in the early/mid-'30s...
Great work Wayne!
Here are the instructions, no mention of bolsters, just drill the floor for the trucks
I wonder if ACC solvent will remove the coupler pockets?
A resounding YES. It is also an instant paint remover, which doesn't break my heart in this case. It didn't seem to affect the resin for the few minutes it took.
BigDaddy...I wonder if ACC solvent will remove the coupler pockets?
I think that an X-Acto #17 blade would have taken it off, too.
There really isn't any reason to not use glue for the couplers, but that should have been the lid of the draught gear box, not the box itself.If the lid were cemented in place, the centring spring and coupler could have been added, then the box (with the "ears" for screw-mounting trimmed off), and secured with a single screw through the centre. That would leave the coupler readily accessible, but not subject to possible rotation of the box, as the cemented-on lid would prevent it.Those "ears" often interfere with the swing of the trucks on curves (even moreso when screws are used in them). Another choice would be the #178 scale-size coupler in its own gear box, but those are engineering plastic and cannot be glued in place.Most low-riding cars, like flatcars and gondolas, don't really need truck-mounting bolsters if what's on the car will give a suitable ride- and coupler-height.
doctorwayneI think that an X-Acto #17 blade would have taken it off, too.
I went with a bloodless method. I've had to replace coupler box springs, but never had to replace the lid or the box, but I didn't care for the upside down and off center mounting.
doctorwayneMost low-riding cars, like flatcars and gondolas, don't really need truck-mounting bolsters if what's on the car will give a suitable ride- and coupler-height.
That's how this thread started. I guess I shall mount new coupler boxes and set the car on trucks and see where it meets the K-D coupler height gauge. Thanks everyone. Pics will be a while. The car body is sitting in 90% alcohol waiting for the rest of the paint to come off.