Hello all, I have several Athearn blue box dummy locomotives. They all seem to have the same problem: They don’t roll very well. In fact they roll like their brakes are set, not that they have real brakes or anything. I know there is a test to see how far a boxcar will roll until it stops but I don’t know the specifics however I can tell you that the dummies are far worse than any boxcar or any other car except for other dummies. Couple two or more dummies together and the problem is double. And of course 6 axle locos are more problem because they have more wheels. So the question is how can I improve their performance? Thank you in advance.
These have plastic wheels, right? The best thing to do is replace all the plastic wheels with metal ones. Also, get a "truck tuner" from Micro-Mark to clean out the bearings.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
Hello all,
I have had some Athearn Dummies that have only had the primemover (electric motor) removed with the traction motors (gears and drive tower minus the drive shafts) still in place.
Pop the shell off and see if this is the case.
If the gear towers are intact, then open them up and remove the gears from between the axles.
Since you are presumably running this unit as a dummy you can do some "meatball" surgery to remove the offending gears.
If this unit has body mounted trucks then replacing the plastic wheels might help.
While replacing the wheels, run a truck tuner; available at MicroMark, on the truck frames to clean out the journals.
If this does not relieve the stiction (static-friction) then consider replacing both the trucks and wheels.
I have had great results with the Kadee Split Bolster "HGC" Trucks. I run code 110 wheels, so the #560's fit the bill for me.
Hope this helps.
"Uhh...I didn’t know it was 'impossible' I just made it work...sorry"
Not sure of the make of the dumbies I have, but they all roll quite well. One rolls very freely, any incline and off it goes.
From the resusts I have had with freight cars, I'd go for the truck tuner as my first attempt to correct the problem, while you're at it change out the plastic wheels too.
Good luck,
Richard
Which type of dummy trucks are these? The truck tuner will only work in the older one piece plastic trucks. When Athearn switched to the separate plastic sideframes the dummy units got trucks that are the same as the powered trucks except that they have plastic wheels and bearings and no gears.
I have one of these on the workbench and it rolls very poorly. I have not yet looked into why but I don't think the plastic wheels are the problem.
Mark
I have a couple Athearn B/B dummy locos that roll poorly. The wheelset axles are blunt end. Changing to metal wheelsets and adding some weight helped some, but not much. I tend to think the the plastic bearing set-up is part, if not all of the problem.
Regards, Peter
In my experience, plastic wheels roll no worse than metal wheels, but, as has been mentioned, if these are in the older, one-piece plastic sideframes, the truck tuner may improve the situation.
If they're the newer style trucks, the axles roll within brass bearings, and a little oil for those bearings should help the rolling qualities.If these were formerly powered units, with only the motor, driveshafts, and worm removed, check the truck, as the other gears within the gearbox will create quite a bit of rolling resistance. For a dummy unit created from a powered model, only the gears which are on the axles are necessary: the gear casting actually holds the wheels, which are mounted on stub axles pushed into the casting, together.
Wayne
doctorwayneIf they're the newer style trucks, the axles roll within brass bearings...
The latest Athearn dummy trucks I've seen have plastic bearings that rest in the axle slots where the bronze bearings fit on the powered units. Replacing the stock wheel assemblies with wheels and bearings from a powered loco (or some new power truck wheels purchased specifically for the job) should help with the rolling qualities.
Rob Spangler
I have a few of them from the older days and number 1, a truck tuner will not help. The problem lies in the fact that the plastic wheel sets are a different axle diameter than the hole they ride in, causing slop and drag. I have put metal wheel sets on all the ''B'' unit dummies I have with the correct size axles and they roll 100% better. You should be able to tell if the above is true for Yours by the amount of vertical/lateral movement of the wheel sets......there should be no-play when inserted in truck side frames.
Take Care!
Frank
There seems to be a lot of configurations for Athearn dummies. mine (SD45,) has the same gear box as powered, but no gears, except the axle gear and housing, which is all plastic, with no place for the brass block, and no metal frame that the blocks fit into, like the powered units. The same seperate sintered wheels/axle that on are the powered unit, push into the axle housing. The side frames are permanently fastened to each side of the gear housing.
Mine spin freely, and with the blunt end on the seperate wheel/axle, the truck tuner wouldn't do any good.
Maybe the tiniest drop of oil into the axle housing on the side frames would help.
The old F7b dummy units I have, have the one-piece truck assembly, that pops off the frame, and, just like frieght car trucks, the tuner can be used, as the axles have the pointed ends, and the wheel set can be removed.
Mike.
My You Tube
A rather recent B unit I purchased has this problem. I think it's silly that Athearn includes the entire loco minus dogbones and motor to make a 'dummy'. There defenitely is some drag from the missing motor. That thing moves like it, as you say, has the brakes on.
Sadly, I just put it in my eBay pile. It's pretty awful compared to the rest of my locomotives (it's one of the terrible Globe models.) You're better off dumping anything that's derived from this significantly old stuff.
I have nothing against detailed, improved models of any age. It's just that some things are more trouble than they are worth.
Julian
Modeling Pre-WP merger UP (1974-81)
Yes, I have the same problem also, with later production "Blue Box Dummies", with the new style seperate truck frames.
Specific dummies with the rolling problem are the locomotives with the heavy die cast frames.
Example's of the problem ones for me, are the GE-C U Boats, Alco PA's, EMD GP 50's/60's. Terrible to MU and basically forget it, as they are poor rollers and to heavy for one power unit and a small train to handle.
Have not had a problem with the EMD F Units and GP 7's/GP-35's, due to the fact that the frames are not as heavey. MU well.
Seems to me, that someone has had success with improving the rolling ability.
Specific solutions?
Kind of think the problem is the wheel mounting bearins, being delrin plastic.
What do you think?
Run Eightheavy die cast frames.
Sounds as if my adding weight to the already heavy frame of the GP50 Athearn BB dummy negated some of the improvement in rolling gained from changing to the NWSL metal wheelsets. Though not certain, I still think the plastic axle carriers are adding friction.
HO-VeloThough not certain, I still think the plastic axle carriers are adding friction. Regards, Peter
Put some Labelle Teflon lubricating powder #134 in the journals/bearings....not grease or oil....doesn't take much. It does a good job for free rolling trucks. I use it on all My rolling stock when assembling......Also the majority of My rolling stock is Delrin wheels sets with metal needle axles......don't even need a truck tuner either. Those older engines and rolling stock, did not have Delrin wheels. They were more of a plastic composite. Slippery engineering plastic was not even out yet! About the only type of truck with slippery plastic was Lindberg trucks, with real springs....$1.50pr.
Thank you for all of your replies. Keep them coming.
These are the blue box dummies which were made in the 1990s. They have the plastic press on side frames. Some of them I bought in the 90s, some in more recent times as new old stock on eBay.
There is enough slop in the wheel sets that they could rub the side frames but I’m not sure that is actually happening. They have black plastic wheels on metal axles in black plastic journals. That might be part of the problem. I think metal wheels might help. Any recommendations? I did have one dummy that rolled like a hot wheel car. I could ever identify the brand but I think it came from a ‘double header’ toy train set. Ask far as Labelle Teflon lubricating powder #134; is it different than Kadee Grease ’em, or graphite for door keys? I was going to try oil but maybe powder is a better solution for the first try.
I think I have found the problem. The inside hubs of the plastic wheels have flash around the axle hole. The flash rubs against the u shaped plastic bearing acting as a brake.
I removed the wheels from the axle, sliced the flash off with a knife blade and reassembled the wheelsets with some graphite lube in the bearings. The unit now rolls much more freely.
Mark Vinski
Lone Wolf and Santa FeAsk far as Labelle Teflon lubricating powder #134; is it different than Kadee Grease ’em, or graphite for door keys? I was going to try oil but maybe powder is a better solution for the first try.
Teflon/Graphite...two totally different animals......chemical properties are way different. Teflon will not attract dirt/dust. It's in White powder form. A pin drop in the axle holes is all I use.
One of the first things I have always done with BB kits and with all other rolling stock kits, is check for flash around wheelsets and bearing holes in side frame, way before any truck tuner was ever out.......It's simple, those are molded parts, You are bound to find it on a lot of parts. Mfger's do not take the time to trim them when pkging. Heck...You'll even find it on RTR...especially from China. You even find nubs from sprue cutting on pieces on some RTR products.
Any Bluebox kit from Athearn always needs to be tuned up before you run it on your layout.
Are they dummy units or just plain old DC powered models?
What do you want them to do?
Hummm, I think the title of the thread and the OP's post pretty much answered that question.
Lone Wolf and Santa FeI think metal wheels might help. Any recommendations?
I like the Northwest Shortline wheelsets, still shown on their online catalog.
North West Shortline makes great metal wheelsets.
Keep in mind they make a lot of wheelsets.
Measure the distance between the inside of the truck frames to match the axle length.
Also, keep the wheel diameter and "code" of the wheel flanges in mind too.
I have had great luck with Kadee wheel sets. They are NMRA compliant and have a "needle" axle end.
The Kadee's roll more efficiently after the side frame journals have been reamed with the axle tuner that has been previously described.
Keep us appraised of how you solved this problem for others on these forums to learn from.
Lone Wolf and Santa Femade in the 1990s. They have the plastic press on side frames.
Complete wheelsets for Dummy unpowered Diesels are Listed on page 3-10 of the current Northwest Shortline online catalog:
"For inside journal trucks (c1990+) , plastic sideframe, 40" & 42"/110, flush 3/32" x .797" axle. Axle carrier length must be trimmed to permit free turning of wheels."
I'm fairly sure these are the sets I have on my 1990s press-on plastic sideframe Athearn Dummies, but maybe a call or email before ordering might be prudent. NWSL (406) 375-7555, sales@osorail.com
Good luck and regards, Peter
I tried Kadee’s Grease’em (graphite) on one of the dummies since I had a tube of it. It made a huge difference. While the dummy still didn’t roll great, it no longer acted like the brakes were on. I will try the Labelle Teflon lubricating powder #134 on the rest of my collection.I did notice that a couple of the wheels were slightly too wide out of gauge so that can cause friction. I need to adjust those when I find a NMRA gauge. I think I did notice some flash so I will look closely are that. I will also look into metal wheels.
Thanks.