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Help for Rivarossi 102 0-8-0 and Mehano Pacific

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  • Member since
    March, 2016
  • 51 posts
Help for Rivarossi 102 0-8-0 and Mehano Pacific
Posted by LEOFUTURE on Friday, March 17, 2017 1:09 PM

still a newbie, trying to get these two to work. Any help will be highly appreaciated!

Part 1: Rivarossi  102 0-8-0

Could someone identify this loco? It does not have a motor but has a worm, I wonder where should I install a new motor? when I turn the worm, wheels do not turn, I tried to quarter but cannot line up unless I take apart a wheel set. Is that so? if yes how should I take the wheel set apart? thanks! Any help will be highly appreaciated!

Any help will be highly appreaciated!



Part 2: Mehano Pacific: Motor spins good but cannot get the worm to turn, I suspect the two plastic coupling pieces connecting the motor shaft and worm (see below), but even when pushed together, spiined motor does not get the worm to turn. What should I do? Any advice will be highly appreaciated!

  • Member since
    August, 2006
  • From: Franconia, NH
  • 2,549 posts
Posted by dstarr on Friday, March 17, 2017 2:42 PM

OK,  The Rivarossi 0-8-0.  That much should identify the locomotive for the purpose of ordering parts.  There might be a model number hidden on the underside which is worth finding, if it exists.  I assume the box is long gone.  You might be able to order a replacement motor from Rivarossi.  Search for them on the web, and then cruise their website for replacement parts. If Rivarossi doesn't work, try NWSL.

   If that doesn't work, then any 12 volt can motor small enough to fit inside the cab will work.  The motor drive shaft goes fore and aft.  It will save you some cutting and hacking if you can find a motor with a shaft diameter that fits the worm drive shaft.   Motors are made with shaft diameters of 2 mm, 2.4 mm. 2.54 mm (0.1 inch) and 1/8 inch.  Adapters to marry different shaft sizes are availible but can be hard to find.  The replacement motor can be mounted with nothing more than double sided sticky tape, or you can make a bracket. 

  For your No 2 case, if the motor shaft turns and the worm shaft doesn't, something is broken inbetween.  NWSL sells a bunch universal joints that can be used for a replacement.  Or, get some model airplane fuel line and make a rubbery U-joint.  A lot of steamers came from the factory with plain black rubber "U-joints" which failed over the years after the oil got to them.  The model airplane fuel line is some magic plastic that shrugs off the fuel, and so is proof against just plain light oil.

   Good luck.  Let us know how you make out.

  • Member since
    March, 2016
  • 51 posts
Posted by LEOFUTURE on Friday, March 17, 2017 3:58 PM

Thanks you dstarr, It has a marking of 4151 on the bottom side of the locomotive. but could not find the meaning online.I will try a 2 mm small 12 volt can motor, any RPM constraints if using generic motors for hobbies?

Would you shed some light on quartering the 0-8-0? does it require taking one pair wheel apart? should it be the one w/ the gear? it seems if I turn it as of now, the hex bolts for side rods would fall off, so I stopped and waiting for advice first from seasoned modelers :)

For No 2 case, thanks for the fuel line suggestion, I saw some w/ outer diameter: 5mm and inner diameter: 2mm, so the innter diameter will fit 2mm shaft motor, should I just cut it to fit between the model shaft and worm shaft? is the idea to form a soft bentable joint that can swing but can transmit power?

Thank you!

 

 

 

dstarr

OK,  The Rivarossi 0-8-0.  That much should identify the locomotive for the purpose of ordering parts.  There might be a model number hidden on the underside which is worth finding, if it exists.  I assume the box is long gone.  You might be able to order a replacement motor from Rivarossi.  Search for them on the web, and then cruise their website for replacement parts. If Rivarossi doesn't work, try NWSL.

   If that doesn't work, then any 12 volt can motor small enough to fit inside the cab will work.  The motor drive shaft goes fore and aft.  It will save you some cutting and hacking if you can find a motor with a shaft diameter that fits the worm drive shaft.   Motors are made with shaft diameters of 2 mm, 2.4 mm. 2.54 mm (0.1 inch) and 1/8 inch.  Adapters to marry different shaft sizes are availible but can be hard to find.  The replacement motor can be mounted with nothing more than double sided sticky tape, or you can make a bracket. 

  For your No 2 case, if the motor shaft turns and the worm shaft doesn't, something is broken inbetween.  NWSL sells a bunch universal joints that can be used for a replacement.  Or, get some model airplane fuel line and make a rubbery U-joint.  A lot of steamers came from the factory with plain black rubber "U-joints" which failed over the years after the oil got to them.  The model airplane fuel line is some magic plastic that shrugs off the fuel, and so is proof against just plain light oil.

   Good luck.  Let us know how you make out.

 

  • Member since
    August, 2006
  • From: Franconia, NH
  • 2,549 posts
Posted by dstarr on Friday, March 17, 2017 4:46 PM

I'd expect 4151 to be the model number.  The HOseeker site has lots of instruction sheets and exploded parts breakdown sheets for all sorts of stuff.  If you find a likely looking sheet for your locomotive, look for the 4151 number somewhere on the sheet, that will confirm that the sheet matches your locomotive.

Motor Speed:  Most of the little motors are rated at 9-10 thousand RPM, no load.  Under load they slow down a lot.  Sometimes too much.  You picks your motor and you takes your chances.  Most of the time everything is fine.  Sometimes the locomotive runs too slowly or too damn fast.  Either you live with it or you find another motor and try again. 

   Quartering:  The crank pins on each driver pair should be at 90 degrees to each other.  I'd leave messing around with quartering until after you get a motor into her and get the wheels turning under power.  Then before taking things apart, check the quartering.  With the worm and/or motor removed, roll the chassis and driver assembly back and forth on a good flat surface.  Piece of plate glass is good.  It you have a quartering problem, it will show up as a binding of the mechanism showing up once or maybe twice per driver revolution.  If the mechanism rolls smoothly, the quartering is good, and you can just put her back together and call it done. 

   If you have a binding problem, you isolate it to one driver pair by removing the rods, one be one, until the bind goes away.  That tells you which driver pair is out of quarter.  Now you need a quartering gauge, available from NWSL, or I have read of people that make their own.  I wouldn't know how to go about doing that myself.  Mark the existing setting by scribing a line across the driver hub and the end of the axle.  Mark both ends, just in case.  Pull the UNINSULATED driver off the axle.  The insulated driver has a layer of insulating material between the tire and the hub of the driver.  The insulation (often paper) isn't very strong, and pulling or reseating the driver may break the insulation.  The UNINSULATED driver is solid metal and less likely to break.  The axle is often splined and so you have to pull the driver and move it over one spline.  Recheck the quarter on the quartering jig.  If all is well press the driver back on the axle.  Check the wheel gauge.  Reassemble the chassis and repeat the rolling check. 

   I have messed with maybe a dozen steamers over the years and I have never had to mess with quartering.  There is a good chance your quartering is just fine.

  As far as the flexible tubing goes, you have it right.  You form a soft bendable joint.  The purists claim that a hard metal U-joint is better, but I have found the airplane fuel line works just fine for me.  And it's easier to do. 

   Good luck.  Have fun.

 

  • Member since
    January, 2010
  • 6,666 posts
Posted by zstripe on Friday, March 17, 2017 4:58 PM

A pic of what one looks like with a Neoprene coupling to the gear box worm:

Also Your pic is a little blurry, but if Your drivers, the one with the gear is not quartered, You will not be able to turn the worm. One side rod needs to be going into the piston, while the other side rod needs to be coming out of the piston. You can Google quartering steam loco drivers and learn how it's done.....If I get a chance, I'll find one for You.

A Youtube video and others on the right side..explaining how to do it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cbg8ZE7RZDs

 

Take Care! Big Smile

Frank

  • Member since
    March, 2016
  • 51 posts
Posted by LEOFUTURE on Friday, March 17, 2017 7:43 PM

Thanks both of you! When you remotor, how would you take the worm out of existing shaft and reattach it to the new shaft? I tried a bit it seems to be pretty tight.

And Frank in your pic, how would you mount the motor to the chassis? Silicon glue or something, looks like it has an angle.

Thank you for any advice.

  • Member since
    August, 2006
  • From: Franconia, NH
  • 2,549 posts
Posted by dstarr on Friday, March 17, 2017 8:22 PM

There are probably special gear puller type tools that will pull a worm off the shaft.  I don't have one so I would use my bench vise as a press.  Couple of pieces of wood in the jaws.  One carries a nail to press on the end of the shaft.  The other has a hole just big enough for the motor shaft.  And deep enough to let the shaft press all the way out.  A scrap of 2 by 4 might be just right. 

  • Member since
    January, 2010
  • 6,666 posts
Posted by zstripe on Saturday, March 18, 2017 2:08 AM

LEOFUTURE,

I used exterior silicon caulk...just make sure You let it cure, before messing with it. Acts just like a motor mount...not rigid, also a vibration damper. They also make all kinds of gear pullers.......there are many other ways, but the gear puller makes it a lot easier, wheels/gears etc. Also make sure if You use the neoprene couplings, the ID diameter must be smaller than the shafts. You have to twist it to get it on the shaft, that is what holds it firm on the shaft.

Take Care! Big Smile

Frank

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