I know this is a topic most of us want to avoid, but from my experience with model railroaders, being practical seems to be a common trait. John Mock suggested the museum idea, which I am deeply honored that someone thinks that highly of my work. Actually my plan is have layout maintained by local model rails with one younger person in charge. Sandy, my wife would enjoy knowing that something of that importance to me was still intact and operating. Also she would enjoy knowing that others would enjoy visiting and playing with the pike as did I. When it comes time for her to move, a serious effort will be made to sell the house with the layout with a promise to maintain and share it.....even if the selling price relflects this deal in favor of the buyer. This is difficult, but has been done before.
As far as trains, she will have a list of values of everything, so if she elects to sell or donate, there will be a starting point.
For a period of around 12 years, I did model railroad appraisals...both for layouts, but specialized in HO brass. For a widow, knowing values is very important as there are many out there that will take advantage of the situation...offering pennies on the street value. I could tell many stories of situations where an appraisal saved literally thousands...sometimes 6 figures for the estate.
Still, I'm open for suggestions and many thanks for the replies to this thread.
HZ
There is a pretty straightforward answer and I'm guessing you already know what the answer is so a discussion topic pretty much academic; it's mainly in gett'n 'er done.
Downsizing the collection while you well and able to a collection of trains you can continue to enjoy in retirement. The trick is to get it do a quantity you can enjoy but will not be a huge burden on those who have to deal with it later on, something managable for the spouse or kids to deal when the inevitable happens.
If you have a huge-mega collection, it shouldn't be difficult to get serious and have a major sell-off during the near term. I imagine even knowing the "value" of trains is one thing, but another is getting what they are worth, which when someone passes away, I'm guessing that is a tall order because getting the "worth" out of models probably takes time and patience because you have to find the right customer who the model(s) are worth the valued price. So in the end, it's good to know value but how long do they want to wait before getting funds from them for those who remain.
Which comes back to, it's better to sell most of the models now while you can try to connect the model to the right buyer to get the value out of it, rather than later when others probably won't be able to make that happen as well and will likely end up having to drop the price to get the items actually sold.
Also have a will, and have instructions on the best way to deal with whatever is left after the down sizing, such as approx. value of the trains remaining (Excel Spreadsheet) and places to sell them without it being too onerous. (you know that of course)
Thats it in a nut shell. /issue resolved
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
trwroute My thought on this is to not accumulate stuff. I have been at this for 44 years and I have around 5 locos and a handful of cars. I have purchased more than my fair share over the years, but when I get tired of something, it goes away. My layout is tiny. I have more books than anything. Keeping it simple makes it easy on everyone.
My thought on this is to not accumulate stuff. I have been at this for 44 years and I have around 5 locos and a handful of cars. I have purchased more than my fair share over the years, but when I get tired of something, it goes away. My layout is tiny. I have more books than anything. Keeping it simple makes it easy on everyone.
I've been mulling this over and I fully agree with your thoughts..If I was young and new to the hobby or had to restart for some reason I would limit myself to modeling a short line with two or three engines and no more then 60-70 cars and a small layout. It would be a lot easier to dispose of a small collection then what the majority of us hoarded over the years..
I use the word hoarded because the majority of us has stuff we seldom if ever use or in some cases never gets built.
In my case and its the cold hearted facts that came to light not so long ago. While I have 52 engines I only use five or six simply because they are my favorites and I have over 350 cars and use my 75 favorites while the others sit in storage totes and goes unused..
Maybe I should sell off my excess while I'm still kicking.
The biggest thing is the resell value since that amount is what a customer is willing to pay and that depends on the use market prices at the time and those prices can fluctuate.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
Keep it simple.....Give it to the less fortunate, who would love to have a model railroad or train set. I'm 74, not the greatest of health, but I'm ok....I have been taking My own advice for a number of yrs. now and it not only makes them happy...but makes Me feel good also...no regrets!
My four kids and eight Grandchildren, are already taken care of...... Wives ? I had two...got rid of them yrs. ago! LOL....We are still friends...don't want to sound heartless.....but they were also taken care of!
Take Care!
Frank
I must echo the comments of the one person above who said they have consciously decided to "rightsize", if you will, while they are still alive...that they only have 5 locos. That is somewhat my approach: if I want something, I will get it, but I'm trying to focus now on only Texas & Pacific, which has very limited rtr offerings outside of mostly brass models and a few BLI and Athearn Genesis diesels, and of course the one new hybrid steamer...In my case, I think I can be perfectly content with a half dozen steamers as long as they are the ones I really want to have.
Others, like for example Sheldon, and Howard, love their big fleets of trains and actually need a pretty good sized fleet of trains just to even operate their layouts. So I would argue that they are in an exceptional group of model railroaders. That, and there is so much that some of them like, that it might be truly impossible to downsize to only a half dozen of anything.
I do think that making provisions for the layout to be used by one's friends after one passes on is a novel approach. Certainly, they could regularly toast one's memory while running some trains.
Ultimately either selling the model railroad with house attached, even at a loss, to a fellow kindred spirit, or setting up a museum, would be the way to go.
Howard, I know we've discussed the artistic (fine art) aspects of model trains, and yet Sotheby's and others in the collecting world seem to have somehow missed the mark as it relates to the limited edition, rare brass models themselves. What if part of setting up a museum would focus on the brass models themselves? What if leaving behind the Howard Zane House of Brass (museum) could do more for the brass hobby after one has departed than one did while one was alive? Would Dan Glasure and the other folks support such a museum? One might think they would as it would benefit their future sales and the relative stability of their livelihoods?
Another option would be to create the brass train museum on a new site, with good transportation access...but to use some of the proceeds (and models) from the current collection as the basis for said museum.
To me these are some of the questions one might consider.
John
Since my train collection is less than 1/2 percent of my net worth and will be even less by that time, who cares.
John,
You mentioned Sotheby's....missed the mark!!!! That is an understatement!!! In March of 1997, they auctioned off the Richard Knopff collection of fine and quite rare brass models. Their catalog had many mistakes...at least that is what I found. Glaab and Winston(Balls of Brass) found more. Many of us called Sotheby's to alert them of mistakes. They would not listen as they had their expert and that was final. My parting words to these neophytes were..." Now I know how you folks lost the Titanic in 1912". I was at the auction as were many notables in the field. I won four models...all listed wrong. I even after tried to be honest and offer returns of models as mistakes were in my favor. They said all sales were final. One such model was a Glacier painted Tenshodo GN S1 4-8-4. I paid $250 plus premium for it and upon examination realized that it was #1 of 125 of the 1979 run with working power reverse then valued at $2600. it gets worse or better depending where you are coming from. Specialization in this area is a must and knowing current values is also a must if you or others don't want to get burned.
Sorry....off message a bit...but getting back to the museum, I'm in a highly restricted residential area. I love the idea, but I'm not sure neighborhood would agree. Possibly by appointment only, but any kind of signage would not be approved. There is ample parking in the immediate area.
I have no idea if Dan Glasure would get involved. I know him well and if any person in the brass field would help...he is the one.
Howard Zane Still, I'm open for suggestions and many thanks for the replies to this thread.
Rich
Alton Junction
richhotrain Howard Zane Still, I'm open for suggestions and many thanks for the replies to this thread. Howard, have you considered selling your most valuable locomotives and rolling stock now? I ask that because you are the most knowledgeable of the value of your own collection.
Howard, have you considered selling your most valuable locomotives and rolling stock now? I ask that because you are the most knowledgeable of the value of your own collection.
As HZ and others have demonstrated, knowledge is major when it comes to this, that and the right customer. I would think that a spreadsheet of values and some contacts would aid a "next of kin" but one of the key elements is "time" - because it takes time to get the right price out of a item. Plastic or (high flying in rarified air) brass, you still have to find someone who values an item and who is able and willing to pay for it. So Rich, I agree; the person best to get the value out of the collection is HZ himself - he probably knows this and my guess is it will still take a good amount of time and finding the right people.
I've been selling my unneeded lowly plastic trains for the past 10 years and I know what they are worth, but many times I get crickets, so I have to wait and try again later. Nearly everything eventually sells but sometimes it takes many weeks or months before the right person comes along and offers to buy at a reasonable discount price.
Quite obviously spending a couple G's on a choo choo is something only a limited few are going to do so same thing applies - hooking up customers with the scratch and getting the "value" out of the item.
Probably the majority of us in this forum would either need to win the lottery or risk alienating wife and all else to swim in the sea HZ does. The hobby is expensive enough for those of us struggling to hang on to middle class life.
Thanks for the appropriate topic to where we are at in life. It is not age, but career change that is uprooting our family.
When building the layout, I went in thinking about where it will end. I saw it as a passtime rather than an investment. When my wife called it an investment, I quickly corrected her. No where near as involved as the HZ project, still a lot of heart went into it. It will stay with the house, or if the new owner has no interest in it, end up in the dumpster. The fun was in the building and running. Not the having.
As far as rolling stock, I am of the opinion that if it isn't regularly used, it is sold. No reason to keep a bunch of "stuff" around.
riogrande5761Quite obviously spending a couple G's on a choo choo is something only a limited few are going to do so same thing applies - hooking up customers with the scratch and getting the "value" out of the item.
And even at that there are plastic diesels that match brass diesels in details and that can hurt the brass market-except for collectors that's looking for certain brass engines.
A lot of folk think a (say) Atlas/Kato RS3 will fetch as much as a Atlas/China RS3 with the upgraded details.
A used DCC ready Genesis GP9 for $80.00 is laughable since you can buy a new DCC ready for $99.00.Your common garden variety cars and locomotives won't fetch all that much.
There's some extremely hard to find Bev-Bel/Athearn cars that can fetch up to $30.00.A prime example a AFC 50' boxcar lettered for Fonda Johnstown and Gloversville.
OTOH if you have 1 of XXX brass models that will fetch more dollars.
I must say, as this thread progressed, my eyes started to roll back...........
So having not read EVERY word, I'm going to offer a few more thoughts:
As for all this talk of selling off your stuff while you are still here, I must say that just seems silly to me. But then again, I have never been one of these people who buys things just to sell them later when I get "bored", or whatever. I will go to my grave not understanding that sort of behavior.......
I have a lot of trains by some peoples standards, but nothing compared to Howard. But I am a very deliberate kind of shopper, I only buy what I need for my goals, I'm not an impluse buyer.
I only buy things I want, usually things I have specific "use" for. So until I have no use for it, why would I sell it? Maybe I should not have bought it in the first place?
Secondly, I look at things like model trains as a leasure time activity, like some people look at dining out or going to a show or night club, or a vacation trip. Can you get that money back? I don't really have any expection, or need, to get back the money I have spent on trains any more than I expect to get back the money I spend on dinner yesterday when the wife wanted to go out for ribs.......
Admittedly, I am somewhat younger than Howard, and in reasonably good health, but males in my family don't have a history of long lifespans......and people leave this life everyday unexpectedly......
But the idea of just giving up, giving in, sell it now, not having new or ongoing "goals", sounds rather like a formula for death itself.......
But what do I know, none of my little trains have any brains........
Sheldon
PS - If where to leave this world tomorrow, and the wife simply gave it all way to someone who was really interested in it, that would be fine with me.
Sheldon,
My thoughts exactly!!!!
Bob
Don't Ever Give Up
Fortunately, My cousin Adam likes train and he just turned 18,so hopefully no problem for me.
Joe Staten Island West
ATLANTIC CENTRAL I must say, as this thread progressed, my eyes started to roll back........... So having not read EVERY word, I'm going to offer a few more thoughts: As for all this talk of selling off your stuff while you are still here, I must say that just seems silly to me. But then again, I have never been one of these people who buys things just to sell them later when I get "bored", or whatever. I will go to my grave not understanding that sort of behavior....... I have a lot of trains by some peoples standards, but nothing compared to Howard. But I am a very deliberate kind of shopper, I only buy what I need for my goals, I'm not an impluse buyer. I only buy things I want, usually things I have specific "use" for. So until I have no use for it, why would I sell it? Maybe I should not have bought it in the first place? Secondly, I look at things like model trains as a leasure time activity, like some people look at dining out or going to a show or night club, or a vacation trip. Can you get that money back? I don't really have any expection, or need, to get back the money I have spent on trains any more than I expect to get back the money I spend on dinner yesterday when the wife wanted to go out for ribs....... Admittedly, I am somewhat younger than Howard, and in reasonably good health, but males in my family don't have a history of long lifespans......and people leave this life everyday unexpectedly...... But the idea of just giving up, giving in, sell it now, not having new or ongoing "goals", sounds rather like a formula for death itself....... But what do I know, none of my little trains have any brains........ Sheldon PS - If where to leave this world tomorrow, and the wife simply gave it all way to someone who was really interested in it, that would be fine with me.
No one has suggested closing down the layout, dismantling it, and selling everything on it while you are still young and healthy. But,as Howard has indicated, he is 78 years old, owns a massive layout, and has tons of inventory. While it is true that someone could contract a serious illness or simply drop dead at any age, the older one gets, the more that leaving the layout behind becomes a reality. It is only the caring and sensitive thing to do to plan for the inevitable.
I mentioned earlier in this thread that my brother-in-law passed away several years ago after a protracted illness, leaving a large basement layout and loads of locomotives, rolling stock, and electronics. It all still sits there today, much to the widow's chagrin. The truth is that no one has the time and ability to come in and dismantle a layout and sell everything that is salvageable.
So, it only makes good sense as you grow older to do some planning, and that planning should include getting rid of some stuff while you are still alive and healthy enough to do so.
Rich, I understand, I just don't agree.
OK, if a person feels they are "done" with something, anything, sure, get rid of it, no matter your age.
But when I go I'm leaving more than just trains........1700 vinyl records, hifi gear, a large shop full of tools, big red tractor.........and 60 years worth of Model Railroader and Railroad Model Craftsman.........
When my wife goes, well, she has some "stuff"..........
Our will is going to read "being of sound mind and body we spent it all" and the kids will just have to have a big yard sale.
Not to get personal, by why have you not solved the situation with your brother-in-laws stuff????? Respectfully, it sounds like his wife simply does not want to deal with it.
It is just part of life, why does this hobby make it any different? OK, make a plan if you can, but don't "settle" for less because you are older.....
Like any type of estate planning, I will help my beneficiaries deal with my assets by sharing my knowledge of what things might be worth and provide contacts, names of buyers or my ebay accounts, so that they don't have to sell everything for pennies on the dollar just to be rid of it. I will create and leave a detailed explanation of the locos, rolling stock, buildings, turnouts, and track, maybe even trees and how best to get the most money for them.
They are welcome to use that information, or not. Its up to them. They may just find it to not be worth their time. But I will take the time to provide them with my thoughts about how best to dispose of the more valuable items.
As far as the actual layout after its picked clean of sellable items: I guess they will just have to hire a handyman to tear it up and toss it in the trash
- Douglas
For some of us, the answer is pretty easy - loved ones will take it over, it will be donated to a club/muesuem, it will be sold, etc.
For others (like me), there is no loved one who is interested in the hobby (they do appreciate what I've done), I don't do clubs, and no one near me has the knowledge to sell 500 or more pieces of rolling stock/locos and all the trackage and DCC stuff that goes with it. And of course there are the structures that I put many hours into - and selling them on Ebay would be a real chore.
I also have a sizeable postwar Lionel collection - which is now worth about 1/4 of what I put into it during the peak collecting years.
Anyway, my thought is that in the not too distant future (I'm 72) I'll be taking down the layout and selling on Ebay. I really don't want to leave that chore to my wife or my kids. Of course the trick to my plan is knowing "when"..........
ENJOY !
Mobilman44
Living in southeast Texas, formerly modeling the "postwar" Santa Fe and Illinois Central
One last thought, if I reached a point in life were I could no longer enjoy my layout and trains, then, and only then, would I consider some "solution" prior to my exit from this life, which would likely include simply putting a lot of it the hands of someone who is younger and interested, as was done for me at age 10........
ATLANTIC CENTRAL Not to get personal, by why have you not solved the situation with your brother-in-laws stuff????? Respectfully, it sounds like his wife simply does not want to deal with it.
My brother-in-law was a lone wolf modeler. He was not a member of a club and had no friends who shared his passion. His wife wishes that the layout were gone but has never directly asked me for help in disposing of it.
They live about 3 hours from me, so it would involve a 6 hour round trip just to get there and back. The layout is DC powered and block wired, something that I am unfamiliar with since I have always operated in DCC.
The first issue would be to inventory, box, and sell the locomotives and rolling stock and electronics - - no small task. Then, the layout itself would have to be demolished and hauled out to a dumpster.
It would be a far easier task if they lived within, say, 30 or 45 minutes of me. And it would be a lot easier if I had a buddy nearby who was familiar with DC. But, neither is the case, so I am really not the right guy to do it.
It is really a shame that my brother-in-law did not take some action when he knew that his time was short. But, that did not happen. He is gone and the layout remains.
My dad was a Lionel nut and had a huge layout, but scale except for early Gar Graves 3 rail track. It actually grew to 95 x 16 feet as new under three car garage expansion accomodated the last 35 feet. He had the same problem with what to do with the pike in 1961 when I got out college and went into the army. What he did was make a deal with a large hobby shop in Hackensack, NJ (I believe owner was also a contractor) to take down layout and restore basement as most of the layout was built into three walls. The Hobby shop was to keep what ever they could salvage and resell. There was a lot of value in structures, track and electronic, never mind the trains.
I was fine with this as this was his hobby and I was only an observer and student at the time.
What was interesting is that 17 years after his passing in 1969, I found most of the trains in a storage facility in S. Florida. I guess he only sold the pike without the trains. Those who have visited my home may have noticed the cases and shelves containing his trains which I have no intention of selling while I'm still alive.
Another idea on what to do with a large layout.
Howard ZaneAnother idea on what to do with a large layout. HZ
99% of the layouts I have personal knowledge of went into a dumpster rented for that purpose and the models went under the auction block auction off in lots and the winning bids varied..The highest return I witness was a large Lionel collection that was sold as a lot and brought a 5 figured dollar amount.
That is the usual end of our railroads-just like a bankrupt railroad equipment is auction off and the rails ripped up..
The cold truth is most museums doesn't want a layout unless it a model of a certain nearby town in a given time frame.At any rate we will be beyond caring.
I should have added that our basement in NJ was nicely finished with carpeting and pecky cyprus wood walls throughout before dad decided to play choo choo.. Dad's pike literally destroyed this area as mountains were attached to walls, most walls were painted for backdrop scenery, carpet was ruined under and around the layout, and ceiling was punched with huge holes as to allow high hat lighting.
Today a good estimate to restore this kind of a basement room would run way over $15,000....in 1961, of course less, but it was a decent solution as what to do with layout. The layout was taken down due to folks moving.
I have no idea how the hobby shop made out with selling dad's many buildings and bridges, but if any of you are familiar with my work........my buildings compared to his are simple cardboard cut-outs.
richhotrainMy brother-in-law was a lone wolf modeler. He was not a member of a club and had no friends who shared his passion. His wife wishes that the layout were gone but has never directly asked me for help in disposing of it.
I don't know about where you live, but here in Virginia there's a company called "we haul junk". At least that's what they do. Don't know about the cost, but it's one way to get it done.
Another solution - offer it up for bids. The whole shooting match to whoever offers the most and will haul it all away. No bids then no value call the junk folks.
I think the problem is that no one wants to just toss stuff. It might be valuable. My mother for years gave me her old magazines because she couldn't throw them away - they hit the first dumpster on my way home.
I have lots of stuff collected over lots of years. I may or may not use it all, but I have no intention of getting rid of any of it. I have bought everything available for my primary interest (Maryland & Pennsylvania RR in S scale). But I buy whatever else piques my interest - in S, HO, and O. Will it all get used? - who knows, but I have it for when I want to build it and use it. The kids can keep what they want and dispose of the rest however they want.
Paul
You fit into a special category in this regard. There are modelers that have some trains and then there are those with a sizeable commitment in space and sheer amount of material that puts them into s a different category.
The task of dismantling a large collection of trains and a room filling (or in your case small house sized) layout is not something that should be left to someone who doesn’t know the field. Akin to having a novice dispose of a collection of paintings (What, you sold the van Gogh at a garage sale?) I have now seen several friends who had very large collections leave the hobby,
The one that was most interesting to me was a gentleman (in his late 80’s at the time) who slowly sold a huge brass collection on Ebay and to friends. He had a massive collection of trains and a basement filling layout. He gave away/donated literally 100’s and 100’s of freight cars that he had assembled. It still left him with piles of items. Myself and others brought home boxes of trains and garbage bags full of trees from his house. In the end there was so much stuff that his housekeeper ended up with things that went begging.
I always admired how he was able to maturely assess the situation and had the self-control to give away and sell his beloved trains. I'm not sure that I could be so rational in the face of that decision (he passed away last year, about 7 years after dispersing his collection). I would ask him if he was sure he wanted to part with it all and he was always unwavering and resolute in his answer that yes, it was time to let go of the trains.
Some of my local train buddies had a hard time accepting the fact that this person was actually leaving the hobby. I think the idea was that if he quits that means there might be a time when some of them might have to give up their trains.
The reaction that I had took me by surprise. When this person gave me boxes of free stuff I should have been elated. Instead I was depressed because the whole experience of watching this man let go of the hobby reminded me of how short life is and how long it takes to build things.
He gave me kits that he purchased 30 or 40 years ago, things I’m sure he considered “must haves” at the time. Now they were being passed on, he was done. I in turn ended up giving many of those items away – sure to sit on another shelf for 30 years…
It was a fairly sobering experience for me. At this point I have adjusted and proudly run some of his cars and other rolling stock. His trees lurk in the background of some of the scenes on the layout. Occasionally I’ll come across some of his stuff in a box in my train room. A gentle reminder that I hope that I have the chance, and the grace, to follow his lead when time comes.
I think that when the collection of trains/layout gets to a certain size, there is an obligation on the part of the responsible hobbyist to make some plans for how to dispose of the stuff in the case of their eventual demise. This would be similar to a collection of paintings or instruments or stamps what have you…
Having been the executor of one estate and deeply involved in another, I can tell you that it’s not cool to leave a big mess (if you can avoid it)…….
I’m curious to hear what has happened to other large collections/layouts.
Guy
see stuff at: the Willoughby Line Site
Guy,
Actually I have no plans or desire to thin down or sell now as I enjoy every aspect of the hobby. I'm still painting brass (my own), building rolling stock kits, scratch building structures and just added seven new sections to the Piermont Division. When I sold my collection and business to Dan Glasure in '05, a year later I found around 450 brass locos I had misplaced in storage when additions were being built on my home (yup, for the layout). Some how they procreated into a serious mess as you'll see on my site (can't list it here). I am actively selling these, but not what runs on my pike or resides in my display area.
Indeed it is sad to see someone so devoted to the hobby just leave. My dad did just this as somehow he got the idea that one must diverse and condense....henceforth taking down the huge pike and selling much of what he owned. He never recovered and was completely miserable over his choice. Several strokes later and finally in a real house again, he began building O scale freight cars and locos, but not a new layout. This activity I believe extended his life for a few more years, and he again looked and behaved almost like his old self.
If only he followed may favorite saying....."You don't stop playing becasuse you grow old...you grow old when you stop playing." A good friend and great modeler, Paul Delfino reminded of this saying, and already by following this teaching, I feel 10 years younger and look like I'm again in my 50's...going for 40's. It has a lot to do with stress...which is a killer and agent for extreme aging. Model railroading is a remedy for this.
Howard,I looked over my collection sheet and found I could sell 70% of my stuff and still have enough for another life time which means I'm either a hoarder or a borderline hoarder..
Maybe I should sell a lot off on e-Bay since I've got cars and locomotives that has been out of their box once and never used.
Larry,
Sell if you need to.....other wise enjoy your trains. You and we all have paid our dues, and we certainly are entitled to keep and enjoy what we own. There is plenty of time for your choo choos to find new homes after you and we are all gone.
Larry:
Sell your surplus stuff, and then use the money to buy yourself something really neat modelling wise.
I'm in the process of inventorying all of my stuff. I'm happy to say that I have very little that I would call "surplus". What it is telling me is that I have a heck of a lot of work to do to get all of my freight cars up to standard.
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!