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Howard ZaneOne reponder to this thread claimed he has never been inspired. Possibly this fellow could enjoy the pleasures of being inspired if he would limit some of his time writing rebuttals as he now has over 14,000 posts on this chat room.
Actually I am inspired by the prototype and enjoy emulating the work I did as a brakeman but,another's layout. Nope.. My tastes and the layout owners tastes may be as different as night and day. I know what I want without the need to be inspired by other modelers layouts..
14,000 posts since 2001 isn't as bad as you may think. In fact I am building a Walthers background building as we speak and I'm waiting on the glue to dry. This morning while others was probably snoozing I was switching cars on my newly built switching layout. Everything is smooth as silk. Later this evening I'm going to mixed the ballast(dark ballast, cinders, earth and a dab of grass all added by eye until it looks right) so,I can start that project. When finish I will add some small weeds in the gauge.
As far as books you may want to consider a e-book as well.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
Why is this always presented as a binary choice (and as an exclusive 'or' at that) rather than as the broad spectrum of often overlapping choices that it really is?
Andre
andrechapelon Why is this always presented as a binary choice (and as an exclusive 'or' at that) rather than as the broad spectrum of often overlapping choices that it really is? Andre
Andre, I dunno why folks thinks a modeler has to be inspired by another modeler's layout. If that is one's choice then I'm happy for that person but,please don't expect me to follow since I have my own ideas what I want out of my switching layout.
At best a layout is designed for the builder's pleasure following his goal even if its a simple loop layout for watching trains run. I on the other hand enjoy switching cars and dislike loop running.
I enjoy looking at photos of any skill level layout and I also enjoy attending our local RPM meet just to look over the models on display simply because I like looking at great models. I enjoy watching trains run on display layouts at train shows.
Brakie, I don't know either. I can even think of some layouts that inspire one to do something else entrely. It's not that the layouts aren't superb, it's that they require a "cast of thousands" to build, maintain and operate. I've operated on a couple of those.
In my view, it could be both. The same could be said by just about any hobby. Show someone what an end result looks like and what a newbie into the hobby can achieve and it grabs attention. Nowadays, the world is filled with electronics. The MR hobby gets more impressive through each invention. I got into it because my neighborhood had tracks on three sides of it. With the Athearn blue box kits being inexpensive, I was able to afford it as a teen. The same could have been said for anything else, whether skiing, skating, music, or whatever. Show the newbies the cool stuff we have and what can be accomplished, and they may stay. I was never good at "art" in the painting/drawing/sculpting sense but give me a frame, tabletop foamboard, scenery, track, etc and I'll show you what I can do.
brakeman618Show the newbies the cool stuff we have and what can be accomplished, and they may stay.
I agree just as long as we keep it a realistic goal.No need to frighten the newbs off by overpowering them with frightening goals that took us years to achieve..
A plywood pacific that operates smoothly along with cars and locomotives with body mounted KD couplers at the correct height and wheels in guage is a easy goal for a newb to obtain.The next goal can be ballasting or scenery.
First thing the newb knows that simple plywood pacific looks good, his confidence is up and now he is ready to move on to bigger and better things.
Bob Ross (The Joy Of Painting) once said the world's greatest artists started with simple paintings like we will be doing.
Words of wisdom, Larry - that´s why I go back to the (low) modeling standards of my youth, as I can´t keep the pace up for even more detail and realism any longer.
I am always pleasantly surprised how little it actually takes to have great fun!
This is exactly why I backed out of this conversation early.
Since I don't want to spend hundreds of thousands on brass, and I don't have the time to build 10,000 craftsman kits, my modeling will never be on a par with Howard's standards, no matter my skills or knowledge.
I gave up on obsessive modeling years ago, be it scenic detail, overly complex operation, or fancy electronics.
So I build what suits me - a large but simple layout for long trains, but I run Athearn shorty passenger cars, craftsman kits mixed with Blue Box kits, and a control system that eliminates unnessesary steps but still provides prototype operation - and good display running.
Close enough is good enough, I'm having fun.
Sheldon
ATLANTIC CENTRALI gave up on obsessive modeling years ago, be it scenic detail, overly complex operation, or fancy electronics. So I build what suits me .....
Bravo!
ATLANTIC CENTRAL andrechapelon Why is this always presented as a binary choice (and as an exclusive 'or' at that) rather than as the broad spectrum of often overlapping choices that it really is? Andre This is exactly why I backed out of this conversation early. Since I don't want to spend hundreds of thousands on brass, and I don't have the time to build 10,000 craftsman kits, my modeling will never be on a par with Howard's standards, no matter my skills or knowledge. I gave up on obsessive modeling years ago, be it scenic detail, overly complex operation, or fancy electronics. So I build what suits me - a large but simple layout for long trains, but I run Athearn shorty passenger cars, craftsman kits mixed with Blue Box kits, and a control system that eliminates unnessesary steps but still provides prototype operation - and good display running. Close enough is good enough, I'm having fun. Sheldon
Sheldon.....I have no idea what my standards are, nor do I give a poop.You have hit the nail right on.....the hobby is about having fun at any level....and any level that suits you or others is just fine!!!!
HZ
... so what have we been discussing here - on 4 pages?
Sir Madog ... so what have we been discussing here - on 4 pages?
Yes, it seemed to me there was a lot of talk about being inspired by the greats and not settling for mediocrity. As soon as anyone questioned who or what is great, their own skills were called into question.
I liked the Scale Coupler, in particular idea of "minimum effort modeling", like my Athearn Piggyback cars. Take something inexpensive, put just a little extra work into it, and greatly improve its prototype "imprsssion", without spending a mint or worring about ever inch or every rivet:
But what do I know.......I'm done here, I have stuff to do and trains to build.
ATLANTIC CENTRALI gave up on obsessive modeling years ago, be it scenic detail, overly complex operation, or fancy electronics.
I guess my only "obsession" is switching cars in a realistic manner like I did when I was a brakeman and I emulate the more noticeable operation and safety rules. That's my hobby enjoyment.
I fully agree close enough is good enough as is correct as possible modeling. The end goal is the modeler is having fun.
I've always modeled to the beat of my own drum and fife corp and only been inspired by the prototype. I get excited when a trio of NS D9-44CWs vibrates the ground when starting a heavy tonnage train just like N&Ws SD45s did 50 years ago.
Same here. Still have my handbooks of op rules from when I worked on a railroad for a summer. The fancy model railroads are fun to look at but I've got kids so my time needs to be focused elsewhere. Whats good enough for a lone wolf is just that...good enough.
Hi Ulrich--
What we have been discussing here???
My understanding is that Howard is honestly trying to discern if there is enough of a market out there for a train book that focuses more on the artistic side of this hobby and some of the neat layouts not usually visible to the general public. He's stated that he's looking for and open to ideas.
Yeah, a few of us like brass trains and see them as art objects in and of themselves, though relatively underappreciated by the art and antiques collectors (at least relative to the extreme effort to produce each model project)...some of us would like to change that...but that is only a subtext or subplot in the greater discussion of model trains generally being art (at least to some of us) and that artistic aspect potentially attracting newbies versus the electronics.
Because I was once a music major, before deciding I wanted to eat, I think I can understand where Howard is coming from here. I can appreciate the hardcore engineering that it takes to produce amazing models. Yet at the same time there are people like Howard who build things completely without plans based upon what their eyes "see"...the true artists. Others of us are somewhere in between.
It's a big hobby and there's plenty of room for everybody, even those who may be on their very first plywood and pacific layout or who may like the grassmat rolls.
Have fun with your trains. Cheers and Happy 4th of July to all!
John
John,I suppose the real question may be is the book a high risk since "art and electronics" can be found in Train Sim ($19.95 street) and all of its DLC add ons plus down loadable cars,locomotives etc. You can run a train,run a local or switch cars in a yard.
Today's new hobbyist is computer savvy and knows how to find instant information on Google,Forums and You Tube.
Another scary thing is family ran book stores is closing as fast as hobby shops. My railroad library consist of 14 books on prototype railroad rosters and one short line guide while my Western novel collection numbers well over 200 e-books. My old paperback Westerns was boxed up (3 large boxes was used) and sold to a used book store that closed two years ago.We no longer have a newspaper/magazine/book store here in Bucyrus since the one we had closed 15 years ago.
Then there's the money side. Does a modeler buy a book for $XX.00 that becomes a dust collector or spend the same amount on a freight car that can be used daily?
Today's modelers would probably be more interested in specialty books(prototype railroad of interest,freight cars,locomotives) then books in general that is nothing more then a interesting read.
PRR8259 Hi Ulrich-- What we have been discussing here??? My understanding is that Howard is honestly trying to discern if there is enough of a market out there for a train book that focuses more on the artistic side of this hobby and some of the neat layouts not usually visible to the general public. He's stated that he's looking for and open to ideas. Yeah, a few of us like brass trains and see them as art objects in and of themselves, though relatively underappreciated by the art and antiques collectors (at least relative to the extreme effort to produce each model project)...some of us would like to change that...but that is only a subtext or subplot in the greater discussion of model trains generally being art (at least to some of us) and that artistic aspect potentially attracting newbies versus the electronics. Because I was once a music major, before deciding I wanted to eat, I think I can understand where Howard is coming from here. I can appreciate the hardcore engineering that it takes to produce amazing models. Yet at the same time there are people like Howard who build things completely without plans based upon what their eyes "see"...the true artists. Others of us are somewhere in between. It's a big hobby and there's plenty of room for everybody, even those who may be on their very first plywood and pacific layout or who may like the grassmat rolls. Have fun with your trains. Cheers and Happy 4th of July to all! John
Which brings me to another point I have avoided thus far. Is it really approperiate for Howard to use this forum to vet his next business venture?
Seven or so years ago on this forum, I was sharing my recently developed advanced cab control system. A moderator asked me pivately if I was selling anything. I answered honestly that I was considering writing a "how To" book on my system - pages and pages of explaination and discussion were deleted, even though I never once made any reference to writing or selling the book on the forum.........forum rules......no selling........or at least one interpretation.......
I don't think scenery techniques have advanced that much over the past decade to warrant another book. The scenery books I have aren't obsolete
on the other hand, model railroad electronics has advanced significantly. Most of the Model Railroad books I have discussing electronics or wiring are obsolete. I doubt that a new book from Kalmbach could do a good job covering all the topics and advancements in even a couple hundred pages nor provide anything that couldn't be found with a web search as Brakie suggested.
Does anyone think a techie would be attracted to model railroading because of the tech aspects of the hobby or would they be more attracted to robotics?
greg - Philadelphia & Reading / Reading
Are we back to square 1 in this discussion?
Without the love for trains, there won´t be anyone interested in the electronics available to control them, without the love for trains, there are others in different hobbies than model railroading interested in how to´s for structures and scenery.
I also have my doubts that yet another book on scenery will pay for its cost.
Sir MadogI also have my doubts that yet another book on scenery will pay for its cost.
Why should it when Woodlawn Scenics has tutorial videos on you tube?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w17K730ezGA
and plug and play lighting.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YqHZ34-9VAY
Instant knowledge with eyes on "how to" at your finger tip.
gregc I don't think scenery techniques have advanced that much over the past decade to warrant another book. The scenery books I have aren't obsolete on the other hand, model railroad electronics has advanced significantly. Most of the Model Railroad books I have discussing electronics or wiring are obsolete. I doubt that a new book from Kalmbach could do a good job covering all the topics and advancements in even a couple hundred pages nor provide anything that couldn't be found with a web search as Brakie suggested. Does anyone think a techie would be attracted to model railroading because of the tech aspects of the hobby or would they be more attracted to robotics?
Well.....obsolete is a relative term, especially in a hobby like this.
I still use a lot of those obsolete wiring/control methods, they still work rather well for my needs and goals.
There was also some great scenery being done in the 1960's and 1970's, and I still use a lot of those methods, they too may be "obsolete" to some, but it is the result that counts.
Access to the MR achive?
Check out the covers of the June 73 and Dec 75 issues, just to name a few.
ATLANTIC CENTRALI still use a lot of those obsolete wiring/control methods, they still work rather well for my needs and goals.
Indeed. A simple Atlas Selector is still good for easy one wire block wiring as it was 50 years ago.
I still use the track laying techniques my dad use-the old eyeball and spikes to hold the track down and it still works. I'm yet to use a straight edge for laying flex track.
I still use Atlas 3" 6" and 9" straight snap track and assorted snap track pieces as needed instead of cutting a whole section of flex for a filling a gap,extending the distance between two industrial siding switches or finishing a industrial siding.