andrechapelonHonda Insight 2 seats x 63 mpg = 126 seat-miles per gallon Ford Explorer 7 seats x 18 mpg = 126 seat miles per gallon Transit Bus 35 seats x 3.6 mpg = 126 seat miles per gallon My dads 69 Checker Marathon wagon - loaded with the 5 of us, our stuff and pulling our Apache camper at 65 MPH 7 seats x 18 mpg = 126 seat miles per gallon
What is this? The new math? What the heck are seat miles per gallon? Are these empty seats or full seats? The transit bus gets 3.6 mpg. Period. Doesn't matter if there are 35 seats, 20 seats, 40 seats, or no seats.
The only thing the transit bus has going for it is that it is not as esthetically challenged as that other vehicle.
maxman andrechapelon Honda Insight 2 seats x 63 mpg = 126 seat-miles per gallon Ford Explorer 7 seats x 18 mpg = 126 seat miles per gallon Transit Bus 35 seats x 3.6 mpg = 126 seat miles per gallon My dads 69 Checker Marathon wagon - loaded with the 5 of us, our stuff and pulling our Apache camper at 65 MPH 7 seats x 18 mpg = 126 seat miles per gallon What is this? The new math? What the heck are seat miles per gallon? Are these empty seats or full seats? The transit bus gets 3.6 mpg. Period. Doesn't matter if there are 35 seats, 20 seats, 40 seats, or no seats. The only thing the transit bus has going for it is that it is not as esthetically challenged as that other vehicle.
andrechapelon Honda Insight 2 seats x 63 mpg = 126 seat-miles per gallon Ford Explorer 7 seats x 18 mpg = 126 seat miles per gallon Transit Bus 35 seats x 3.6 mpg = 126 seat miles per gallon My dads 69 Checker Marathon wagon - loaded with the 5 of us, our stuff and pulling our Apache camper at 65 MPH 7 seats x 18 mpg = 126 seat miles per gallon
Yes, looks, that is a good criteria on which to judge motor vehicles. That is why so much of what is on the road are ineffective little bubbles that have no practical use beyond carrying the two people in the front seat...........I drive practical vehicles with good cargo capacity and reasonable fuel consumption for the work they are able to do - work I need them to do.
Others may have different needs............like impressing others.........
Sheldon
Sir Madog I don´t know whether I shall just be amused or turn away in disgust. We have had this discussion about the sense or nonsense of highspeed rail transportation a number of times with Sheldon and the only point we could agree upon is that we all wholeheartedly agree to disagree. I am inclined to change my mind and concur with Sheldon´s opinion. The US are not a country for highspeed train travel! Why? It´s not the distances required to cover which make the nation unfit for that, it´s the attitude, combined with the fact that there is a gap of 50 years of experience in highspeed train engineering (and operation) between Europe/Japan and the US. As long as freight trains enjoy priority over passenger services, as long as train stations are in the rather dark and dingy parts of town and as long people calculate the consumption of fossil fuels per mile and multiply the result by the number of seats available in the car, although only one or two are actually occupied, there is no chance for passenger trains, let alone highspeed trains in the US, unless some wise person undertakes a bold move - just like in California.
I don´t know whether I shall just be amused or turn away in disgust. We have had this discussion about the sense or nonsense of highspeed rail transportation a number of times with Sheldon and the only point we could agree upon is that we all wholeheartedly agree to disagree.
I am inclined to change my mind and concur with Sheldon´s opinion. The US are not a country for highspeed train travel! Why? It´s not the distances required to cover which make the nation unfit for that, it´s the attitude, combined with the fact that there is a gap of 50 years of experience in highspeed train engineering (and operation) between Europe/Japan and the US. As long as freight trains enjoy priority over passenger services, as long as train stations are in the rather dark and dingy parts of town and as long people calculate the consumption of fossil fuels per mile and multiply the result by the number of seats available in the car, although only one or two are actually occupied, there is no chance for passenger trains, let alone highspeed trains in the US, unless some wise person undertakes a bold move - just like in California.
Respectfully, freight trains should come first, they pay the bills, passenger service has NEVER paid the bills for American railroads.
Before the 1970's, the US Post Office paid to run the passenger trains because they carried the mail - and if a few people bought tickets, that was a bonus.
More US freight needs to go on the rails, and that shift is happening now that the governement is finally out of the way with the repeal of stupid regulations.
More freight on the rails means major savings in diesel fuel over highway trucks, and major imrovements in highway safety (mainly because the idiots in little cars don't know how to drive).
As for those fossil fuels, I use them to heat my 3700 sq ft home and my seperate 900 sq ft train room as well.........
andrechapelon Who checks baggage for a train trip? In 2006, I took AMTRAK from the Tasman St. station (more like an open platform) in Santa Clara, CA to Boston, South Station. The only time baggage was "checked" was when my bag was loaded into the under storage of a Concord Coach Lines bus from South Station to the Portland, ME transportation center. ... As for having to have a ticket, I can't remember the last time I (or we) used anything other than an electronic ticket. So, to add another question, who buys tickets at the station (or the airport or the bus station)?
Who checks baggage for a train trip? In 2006, I took AMTRAK from the Tasman St. station (more like an open platform) in Santa Clara, CA to Boston, South Station. The only time baggage was "checked" was when my bag was loaded into the under storage of a Concord Coach Lines bus from South Station to the Portland, ME transportation center.
...
As for having to have a ticket, I can't remember the last time I (or we) used anything other than an electronic ticket. So, to add another question, who buys tickets at the station (or the airport or the bus station)?
To both: lots of people.
Amtrak didn't just buy 70 baggage cars because they thought they'd look nice at the headend. Most of my Amtrak trips are DC to Pittsburgh or Alexandria VA to New York. Both routes afford me the option to check bags, and I take it. For DC-PGH, the line for the Capitol Limited starts stacking up pretty early because of how the boarding process works at WUS. Rather than nanny my luggage around a busy station, I check it. Something similiar for NYP: hotel check out is usually well before my train, so go to the station, check the bag, and now I don't have to lug it around Manhattan while I find lunch.
The wait at the ticket kiosks isn't to buy. Its to print the tickets you've already bought. The ticket app is pretty buggy and the CL doesn't have wifi (or cell coverage for big sections) anyhow, so the paper ticket is much more handy. For the NEC routes, yeah they have wifi and cell coverage, but that doesn't solve the buggy app.
Hyperloops may be the future, two or more test tracks are being built in the US and one has already been ordered by a foreign country. 760MPH by the way.
Sheldon,
You think people are nuts for driving 40 minutes to work? Not everybody can live close to their job. I drove 1 hour and 35 minutes one way and another 1 1/2 hour home Every day for my entire career.
Live closer you say, I worked in the badlands of Philadelphia with the police telling me that almost 90% of the people in that area were carrying guns. So be careful.
I did not want my kids anywhere near where I was working.
It paid very well so I did not mind the drive.
As far as Amtrak goes if it is going to where your going it's great, relaxing ride and great service.
I have been following the Hyperloop technology for quite some time now and when it becomes a public company will throw a couple of thousand bucks at it and that will hopefully make my children/grandchildren very comfortable. It could be another Apple/Microsoft story. High risk, high return. For reasons I won't go into though, I think Hyperloop technology for passenger travel will be relatively short lived, however for goods movement it could be the future.
I have a life style much like Sheldons. I live in a rural area and have the vehicles that are perfectly suited to my lifestyle. I have a large house on acreage that was the same price as my run of the mill house in the city. For a guy that wanted a decent sized trainroom it was a no brainer as far as moving went. I could never go back to being packed in like rats in the city.
Ulrich was right as far as what he said about it is the attitude of the people that is holding us back on the North American side. I have been fortunate in my life to have travelled to many parts of the world. My first adventures had me renting cars wherever I went. I soon learned that this was an expensive, tiring, inefficient way to get around. I lived with a girl in Zurich for a time. Before my arrival she bought a car as she thought it would make me feel more at home. It wasn't long before we got rid of it as I realized it was really not needed.
Whenever discussions come up on this forum about how other countries do things, you can always spot those who have never wandered that far from home by their social commentary. You never miss what you have never experienced or had. Quality of life is very good in so many countries around the world. More people should broaden their horizons and like Captain Kirk use to say "let's see what's out there".
Brent
"All of the world's problems are the result of the difference between how we think and how the world works."
DAVID FORTNEY Sheldon, You think people are nuts for driving 40 minutes to work? Not everybody can live close to their job. I drove 1 hour and 35 minutes one way and another 1 1/2 hour home Every day for my entire career. Live closer you say, I worked in the badlands of Philadelphia with the police telling me that almost 90% of the people in that area were carrying guns. So be careful. I did not want my kids anywhere near where I was working. It paid very well so I did not mind the drive. As far as Amtrak goes if it is going to where your going it's great, relaxing ride and great service.
David, we all make choices. Sounds like you worked for a big company.
I've never done that. Been self-employed more than 50% of my adult life, usuallly in "one man" enterprises.
But I have worked in the city, sold MATCO TOOLS for eight years in East Baltimore, lived just outside the city line in Dundalk, right in the heart of my tool truck territory. Never had any trouble with crime, my kids graduated from Baltimore County schools and turned out just fine. So contrary to what everyone is likely thinking, I know a little about urban life........
Again, we all make choices.......
When I did work for others, they were all small companies. Once, at age 21, I tried working for a big company - I quit after one week.
I don't live far from Philly, and know it moderately well. The problem is not the bad guys with guns, the problem is they won't let the good guys shoot back. It works everywhere its been tried.......
And, as someone who spent everyday "on the streets" of East Baltimore for nearly a decade, with $1000 rolled up in my shirt pocket, fact is, most of the crime is people who have beef with someone they know. If you mind your business, act like you belong there as part of the good people, and use common sense, you are nearly as safe as in any suburb - we have drugs and crime out here too.......
These speeds got nothing on the scale speeds we all ran our toy trains when we were kids. Remember trying to race that Lionel faster and faster until it went into orbit around an 027 curve? 450 scale mph? Puttting the engine and cars back on the track was just as much fun.
Wish I had that beautiful brown and white operating milk car today. And that noisy cattle car.
Thanks Dad.
BATMAN I have been following the Hyperloop technology for quite some time now and when it becomes a public company will throw a couple of thousand bucks at it and that will hopefully make my children/grandchildren very comfortable. It could be another Apple/Microsoft story. High risk, high return. For reasons I won't go into though, I think Hyperloop technology for passenger travel will be relatively short lived, however for goods movement it could be the future. I have a life style much like Sheldons. I live in a rural area and have the vehicles that are perfectly suited to my lifestyle. I have a large house on acreage that was the same price as my run of the mill house in the city. For a guy that wanted a decent sized trainroom it was a no brainer as far as moving went. I could never go back to being packed in like rats in the city. Ulrich was right as far as what he said about it is the attitude of the people that is holding us back on the North American side. I have been fortunate in my life to have travelled to many parts of the world. My first adventures had me renting cars wherever I went. I soon learned that this was an expensive, tiring, inefficient way to get around. I lived with a girl in Zurich for a time. Before my arrival she bought a car as she thought it would make me feel more at home. It wasn't long before we got rid of it as I realized it was really not needed. Whenever discussions come up on this forum about how other countries do things, you can always spot those who have never wandered that far from home by their social commentary. You never miss what you have never experienced or had. Quality of life is very good in so many countries around the world. More people should broaden their horizons and like Captain Kirk use to say "let's see what's out there".
Brent,
Agreed, however "quality of life" is also driven by what you like and want........
I use to be well rounded until I learned what I really like.
ATLANTIC CENTRAL"quality of life" is also driven by what you like and want........
Ageed 100%.
I have alway's marched to the tune of a different drummer. Now as I am closing in on sixty, it's all my life long friends that (like me) are slowing down that are saying they wished they had looked after their bucket list before they settled down and got married.
Many of them came along on some of my adventures but chose to settle down and have kids. My kids are 17 and 14. The only benefit of getting married at forty and having kids is, I am much better off financially and can do more for them. I can still strap on the skates and rub my kid into the boards but it sure hurts afterwards.
I´ll be turning 60 in a few months. I have had two serious heart attacks, a set of minor strokes and a big one. I can still drive a car, but it´s no fun for any time longer than an hour. I am glad I have a train station within 5 minutes. The train takes me to Hamburg in a time I´ll never be able to make with a car. The return ticket costs less than the parking fee, and if I add a couple of Euros, I can even take my wife along
If I book a long distance ticket ahead of time, I can get them at rock bottom prices. In most cases I do know way ahead of time that I will be traveling.
OK, I used to be a car nut. My company cars were usually BMW 7 series or, correspondingly Mercedes S-class. My midlife crisis car was a Porsche 911 Carrera Turbo S, in which you could feel a stamp posted to the road when you ran over it. I don´t need all of that any longer. Now we have a Volkswagen up!, a car so small it is not sold in the US. I am happy to be alive, I am happy I can do a tiny bit of MRRing on my shoestring budget and I am happy that for 32 years now I am married to a loving wife who cares for and about me!
Sir Madog I´ll be turning 60 in a few months. I have had two serious heart attacks, a set of minor strokes and a big one. I can still drive a car, but it´s no fun for any time longer than an hour. I am glad I have a train station within 5 minutes. The train takes me to Hamburg in a time I´ll never be able to make with a car. The return ticket costs less than the parking fee, and if I add a couple of Euros, I can even take my wife along If I book a long distance ticket ahead of time, I can get them at rock bottom prices. In most cases I do know way ahead of time that I will be traveling. OK, I used to be a car nut. My company cars were usually BMW 7 series or, correspondingly Mercedes S-class. My midlife crisis car was a Porsche 911 Carrera Turbo S, in which you could feel a stamp posted to the road when you ran over it. I don´t need all of that any longer. Now we have a Volkswagen up!, a car so small it is not sold in the US. I am happy to be alive, I am happy I can do a tiny bit of MRRing on my shoestring budget and I am happy that for 32 years now I am married to a loving wife who cares for and about me!
All good things to be happy about.
I will be 59 in a few months, and thankfully am in good health. Sure, I have some aches and paines, and few very minor older age issues, but generally I'm in good shape. Never smoked, never drank alcohol much, don't drink at all anymore. Don't eat real healthy, don't eat really bad.......
So for me, I can still drive a car all day to travel, plow the snow or mow the lawn with the tractor, just took some materials to the job a few hours ago and loaded/unloaded a small stack of lumber from my big pickup truck.....
I understand that one day my health might limit my activities, but until that day comes, I'm going to work and live as I choose, not how someone else thinks is best.
My wife and I both prefer people in small doses, we like our privacy and quiet, we like to come and go as we please.
I settled down early, rasied three children with a first wife - she had a mid life crisis and left. Second wife and I now together 22 years. Don't think I've had a mid life crisis, but I did have fast cars in my youth, and worked in a BMW store at one point, so I've driven those same cars.......
I am the settled home body type, don't really need or want to "see the world" much more than I already have. I know what I like to do, and I want to spend my time doing it........
I love my work, restoring and preserving old houses. I like building things......
I don't even understand the idea of a "vacation in the islands"? What do you do? I hate doing nothing......
NittanyLion andrechapelon Who checks baggage for a train trip? In 2006, I took AMTRAK from the Tasman St. station (more like an open platform) in Santa Clara, CA to Boston, South Station. The only time baggage was "checked" was when my bag was loaded into the under storage of a Concord Coach Lines bus from South Station to the Portland, ME transportation center. ... As for having to have a ticket, I can't remember the last time I (or we) used anything other than an electronic ticket. So, to add another question, who buys tickets at the station (or the airport or the bus station)? To both: lots of people. Amtrak didn't just buy 70 baggage cars because they thought they'd look nice at the headend. Most of my Amtrak trips are DC to Pittsburgh or Alexandria VA to New York. Both routes afford me the option to check bags, and I take it. For DC-PGH, the line for the Capitol Limited starts stacking up pretty early because of how the boarding process works at WUS. Rather than nanny my luggage around a busy station, I check it. Something similiar for NYP: hotel check out is usually well before my train, so go to the station, check the bag, and now I don't have to lug it around Manhattan while I find lunch. The wait at the ticket kiosks isn't to buy. Its to print the tickets you've already bought. The ticket app is pretty buggy and the CL doesn't have wifi (or cell coverage for big sections) anyhow, so the paper ticket is much more handy. For the NEC routes, yeah they have wifi and cell coverage, but that doesn't solve the buggy app.
Well I have to say I agree, if I was riding the train like that, for business I presume, I would not want to carry luggage around either.
Andre says they travel light - so do my wife and I. We can travel a week or more with just one medium suitcase and small carry bag - it's still nicer to only move it from the back of the station wagon to the hotel/motel room......
I hate the rent-a-car hassle, what a time waster as well, and again, it is so hard, and expensive to rent anything of any size/comfort.
Our FORD FLEX has a 118" wheel base, its ride is incredable. The seats are upright, and entry/exit is easy for my wife with bad knees. I've hated cars that you "climb down into" since the 60's - guess that was one of the reasons I owned three Checkers........
The FLEX is like having a Checker with all of todays latest tech.
BATMAN Whenever discussions come up on this forum about how other countries do things, you can always spot those who have never wandered that far from home by their social commentary. You never miss what you have never experienced or had. Quality of life is very good in so many countries around the world. More people should broaden their horizons and like Captain Kirk use to say "let's see what's out there".
I'm in my mid 50's and I've never been outside of the USA. Never got a passport. I don't plan to ever get one. I guess that means I'm a slob because I don't want to visit another country.
My job takes me around the USA. I've been from Maine to LA, Portland to Miami. With the exception of scenery, everything is pretty much the same. I could care less about food....I eat for sustenance, not for recreation.....so there is no such thing as "good food" in one place that I can't get somewhere else.
There are bad neighborhoods and good neighborhoods in every city and town. After traveling very frequently for over 30 years, yes, one place is as same as the next.
But home is best. Its the only place worthwhile spending time at if I'm not working.
I'm pretty certain I would be bored at best, but probably annoyed and inconvenienced if I ever traveled outside of the US.
I'm happy for those who would like to travel by high speed train. I don't have much use for it.
- Douglas
Doughless BATMAN Whenever discussions come up on this forum about how other countries do things, you can always spot those who have never wandered that far from home by their social commentary. You never miss what you have never experienced or had. Quality of life is very good in so many countries around the world. More people should broaden their horizons and like Captain Kirk use to say "let's see what's out there". I'm in my mid 50's and I've never been outside of the USA. Never got a passport. I don't plan to ever get one. I guess that means I'm a slob because I don't want to visit another country. My job takes me around the USA. I've been from Maine to LA, Portland to Miami. With the exception of scenery, everything is pretty much the same. I could care less about food....I eat for sustenance, not for recreation.....so there is no such thing as "good food" in one place that I can't get somewhere else. There are bad neighborhoods and good neighborhoods in every city and town. After traveling very frequently for over 30 years, yes, one place is as same as the next. But home is best. Its the only place worthwhile spending time at if I'm not working. I'm pretty certain I would be bored at best, but probably annoyed and inconvenienced if I ever traveled outside of the US. I'm happy for those who would like to travel by high speed train. I don't have much use for it.
Guess we can be parochial together Doughless, I too have never been out of the country. The wife and I did get passports last year, she wants to take a trip or two to Canada - if we can make time.
I have not seen this whole country yet, don't feel much need to go to a bunch of others.
Food, I don't care for fancy food either - I would likely starve in another country/culture - I'm a pretty picky eater, and don't like anything spicey. That's likely a good thing, my father died from a stomac ulser.........
Fact is, I could stay home for a week, take off work, and if the phone did not ring, and no one knocked on the door, that would be just fine - I would get a lot of model trains built.......
But what do I know, I'm just a hick with a pickup, some guns, and lots of little trains without brains........
Personally slower is better in my book. You get a chance to see the countryside.
I'm fortunate that I get to travel a bit in my work. Been on the Shangai maglev at 431 km/hr. Other than to say "been there done that", it wasn't a very interesting ride. Spent several days In the UK with a BritRail pass and much preferred the the mid-speed trains I rode. Didn't make it to the continent, so haven't ridden a TGV, but again, probably wouldn't like the scenery passing by so fast.
The opposite end of the spectrum, and one regret of a train that I didn't get to ride, was the narrow gauge from Sucre to Potosi Bolivia. Would have much preferred that to the roads! The tracks paralleled the road in many areas, and as derelect as they looked, I couldn't believe they were still in operation. If I'm fortunate enough to get back to Potosi, I'll make sure to take the train.
http://bolivia.for91days.com/2011/06/05/from-sucre-to-potosi-by-train/
Btw, the silver mines in Potosi have been continuously mined since the 1540s! Hard for most of us USA citizens to think of "American" development before the pilgrims.
I have turned into a bit of a lone wolf myself - always in quest for peace and quiet. I live in a country of about 80 million people - crammed into the size of, say, Oregon. My financial situation does not allow me to live in a good neighborhood, so I am stuck with neighbors who take pride in making life hell for my wife and me. But I am alive.
In my healthy days I have traveled a lot, most of it on business. I have been to Canada, the US, Mexico, Argentina, Chile, Japan, China, Singapore, Malaysia, Egypt, Turkey, South Africa, Russia and, of course, all over Europe. I have trave traveled by train in nearly all of those countries. I took the Shinkansen in Japan, the AVE in Spain, the TGV in France, the ICE in Germany and the highspeed train from Shanghai to Wuxi and to Beijing in China. The latter one was most impressive - not by the speed it went, but the speed of setting up a vast highspeed train network!
Just take a look at this page!
824 miles in a little under 5 hrs - downtown to downtown! I took both the train and a flight on that relation. While the actual time in the air was about 2 hrs., the cab ride from the airport to the Tiananmen Square in Beijing ate up the balance of the saved time!
Thanks for that, I was starting to fear we were not discussing railroads any longer.
When I go by train, I can arrive at the Toledo station, park free a few yards from the terminal, I always see that I have my ticket in hand before I leave on my trip. Inside I know I can get there five minutes before the train does if I want to. Train arrives 20 feet from the terminal door, I walk to my assigned car, stow my bags in the luggage racks by the door, and go to my seat. Seamless. Don't usually go into Washington US, getting off at suburban Rockville stop. A nice breakfast in the dining car somewhere near Connelsville. Grab my bags from the rack on the way out.
Contrast, last time I flew was to Las Vegas to get married. On the way back, got to airport THREE hours ahead of flight, and by the time we got through security lines we barely made the flight. I could have had pretzels at my seat if I wanted to buy them. At this end, we wait with the rest of the cattler for our bags to appear.
ATLANTIC CENTRAL DAVID FORTNEY Sheldon, You think people are nuts for driving 40 minutes to work? Not everybody can live close to their job. I drove 1 hour and 35 minutes one way and another 1 1/2 hour home Every day for my entire career. Live closer you say, I worked in the badlands of Philadelphia with the police telling me that almost 90% of the people in that area were carrying guns. So be careful. I did not want my kids anywhere near where I was working. It paid very well so I did not mind the drive. As far as Amtrak goes if it is going to where your going it's great, relaxing ride and great service. David, we all make choices. Sounds like you worked for a big company. I've never done that. Been self-employed more than 50% of my adult life, usuallly in "one man" enterprises. But I have worked in the city, sold MATCO TOOLS for eight years in East Baltimore, lived just outside the city line in Dundalk, right in the heart of my tool truck territory. Never had any trouble with crime, my kids graduated from Baltimore County schools and turned out just fine. So contrary to what everyone is likely thinking, I know a little about urban life........ Again, we all make choices....... When I did work for others, they were all small companies. Once, at age 21, I tried working for a big company - I quit after one week. I don't live far from Philly, and know it moderately well. The problem is not the bad guys with guns, the problem is they won't let the good guys shoot back. It works everywhere its been tried....... And, as someone who spent everyday "on the streets" of East Baltimore for nearly a decade, with $1000 rolled up in my shirt pocket, fact is, most of the crime is people who have beef with someone they know. If you mind your business, act like you belong there as part of the good people, and use common sense, you are nearly as safe as in any suburb - we have drugs and crime out here too....... Sheldon
Enzoamps Thanks for that, I was starting to fear we were not discussing railroads any longer. When I go by train, I can arrive at the Toledo station, park free a few yards from the terminal, I always see that I have my ticket in hand before I leave on my trip. Inside I know I can get there five minutes before the train does if I want to. Train arrives 20 feet from the terminal door, I walk to my assigned car, stow my bags in the luggage racks by the door, and go to my seat. Seamless. Don't usually go into Washington US, getting off at suburban Rockville stop. A nice breakfast in the dining car somewhere near Connelsville. Grab my bags from the rack on the way out. Contrast, last time I flew was to Las Vegas to get married. On the way back, got to airport THREE hours ahead of flight, and by the time we got through security lines we barely made the flight. I could have had pretzels at my seat if I wanted to buy them. At this end, we wait with the rest of the cattler for our bags to appear.
Hard to discuss the merrits of high speed rail without discussing the merrits of the alternatives........
ATLANTIC CENTRALHard to discuss the merrits of high speed rail without discussing the merrits of the alternatives........
Sheldon, as much as I would like to do that, I don´t think this can be done without drifting into subjects which we shouldn´t discuss here.
Sir Madog ATLANTIC CENTRAL Hard to discuss the merrits of high speed rail without discussing the merrits of the alternatives........ Sheldon, as much as I would like to do that, I don´t think this can be done without drifting into subjects which we shouldn´t discuss here.
ATLANTIC CENTRAL Hard to discuss the merrits of high speed rail without discussing the merrits of the alternatives........
Ulrich,
Without going deeply into topics that do not belong here, I can explain rather simply why I have such a strong reaction to this and similar topics.
I will always resist any notion that myself, or others, should live a specific lifestyle to conform to someone elses notion of what is better for the "common good".
For over 200 years Americans have fought and died to preserve the ideals of a free society full of opportunity. Anything that smacks of confoming to be a good little comrade is offensive to me.
ATLANTIC CENTRAL Sir Madog ATLANTIC CENTRAL Hard to discuss the merrits of high speed rail without discussing the merrits of the alternatives........ Sheldon, as much as I would like to do that, I don´t think this can be done without drifting into subjects which we shouldn´t discuss here. Ulrich, Without going deeply into topics that do not belong here, I can explain rather simply why I have such a strong reaction to this and similar topics. I will always resist any notion that myself, or others, should live a specific lifestyle to conform to someone elses notion of what is better for the "common good". For over 200 years Americans have fought and died to preserve the ideals of a free society full of opportunity. Anything that smacks of confoming to be a good little comrade is offensive to me. Sheldon
In many topics in this forum, and in general conversations in the real world, ideology often gets unwittingly placed into many of these discussions. I appreciate the members like you that offer an alternative...and placing it out in the open. And it does contribute to the topic, because it helps to reveal why one thing to one person may not satisfy that of another.
Personally, I get annoyed at the concept of world travel being indicative of intellect, education, or sophistication (whatever that is). Then when an opinion comes out as supporting the alternative, all of a sudden it gets shouted down as being OT.
For various reasons, I have yet to see Yellowstone NP, spent much time in the Pacific NW, or have yet to see the Grand Canyon.
A round trip airplane ticket to Las Vegas (Grand Canyon entry point) from the closest airport in Indianapolis is about $400. Even less if its a carrier specializing in direct charter flights to "party" destinations. Indy to the Bahamas might be only $400 RT too...only $300 to Orlando FL. Lots of mountains or water to traverse to either of those desireable locales...rather impossible to get there by high speed train. Then when I get to the airport in Vegas, transportation is on my own. Just like it would be if I got dropped off at a train station.
Yellowstone is a big place. Lots to see in all corners of the park. It takes a long time to see everything...even longer if you take a mass transportation tour bus that makes you stay longer at a sight that you would rather not be at to begin with. Its not like visiting Paris, where the Eifel Tower, art museums, and brie and wine restaurants, are all within a mile walking distance.
I can't see the benefit of a company or government investing in high speed rail when the aircarrier alternative is so reasonable. High speed rail might be competitive for me to travel across the cornfields to St Louis MO.....but why would I want to go to St. Louis, MO?
BTW, IMO, the airline industry in the US has been highly subsidized by the federal government, unlike railroads. In a purely privately funded business model, if the cost of the airplane, pilot training, air traffic control, not to mention the cost of building and maintaining the airport was born SOLELY by the prices charged the consumer via ticket purchases, the cost of an average airline ticket would probably cost $4,000. The US airline industry is not a legitimate business model, IMO. (maybe that's why they go bankrupt every ten years)
But a healthy airline industry helps keep advancement in technology cost effective by eventually passing some of the costs onto the private consumer.
And a healthy airline industry is needed for winning wars overseas...which is why our government subsidizes airlines, which also contributes to high-speed rail being less competitive.
All of the above statements just confirm - it´s the attitude!
Oh please. The attitude being displayed is the one where decisions are usually made based upon what makes the most sense given a person's circumstance. That attitude, and a few subsidies thrown towards highways and airlines, did no favors for passenger rail travel in America.
I'd love to take the Empire Builder on a trip to the NW US, but if I was trying to get to Seattle from Indy in the most practical way possible, which is usually the criteria I use even when traveling for a vacation, I'd fly OVER the Rocky Mountains. Even if the train could travel at 200 or 300 MPH (top speed not average speed), the plane beats it...with either no stops or one in between.
As far as any other comments, there are passive-aggressive types who post comments dripping with attitude all over this forum.
Did any of you notice that this thread really got hairy in sync with the full moon? I am kind of surprised the thought police have not locked it by now.
Charlie