Valley & Siletz Railroad

[Spud man]

I am going attempt to scratch build the Valsetz Zephyr http://photos.salemhistory.net/cdm/singleitem/collection/max/id/1651/rec/1

This is gas vehicle, built around 1910, it appears to have a drive shaft driven with a marine motor. This my first attempt at this type of project. I am thinking of using a Stanton drive for power rather than trying get a scratch built drive shaft. Any helpful advice would be appreciated.

Thanks,

["JaBear"]

Gidday Spudman.  to the forum.

It looks like you’re about to undertake a very interesting project.

What I would suggest that you restart this post in “General Discussion” using the title, or something along the lines of, “Scratch building Railroad Motor Rail Car, Advise Please.” Hopefully this will be more likely to get the attention of the likes of Darth Santa Fe..........

 

http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/88/t/173909.aspx?page=1

http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/88/p/227541/2787276.aspx#2787276

http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/88/t/201863.aspx?sort=ASC&pi314=1

http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/88/t/205327.aspx?sort=ASC&pi314=1

 

........and hon3critter....

 

http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/88/t/246923.aspx?page=1

http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/88/p/204177/2234570.aspx#2234570

 

....and other liked minded chaps who should be able to give you the “good oil”.

Cheers, the Bear.

[Beach Bill]

This appears to be a photo of #5 on that line, a 7 window, 30 passenger item.

According to Edmund Keilty's The Short Line Doodlebug (1988),the car was built by Hofius Steel and was originally built as Hartford & Eastern Ry. Co. #3.  Further information, including a 3/4 front view of the car, is found in Interurbans Without Wires (1979), also by Keilty.   This is a "one of", and was the only gasoline motor car produced by Hofius Steel & Equipment Co. of Seattle, WA.  It was produced in 1916 and was 31'9" long.  It was powered by a 125 hp. 4-cylinder Wisconsin engine (some sources say 6 cyl)  with a mechanical transmission to the reaar 2-wheeled driving truck.  Hofius claimed that the car could pull a trailer and was rated for 40mph, selling for $8,000.   The advertised to build a 40-foot version with a 4-wheel driving truck but there were no takers.

The car went to the Valley & Siletz Ry in 1918 and remained in service until 1945 (!).  The car was listed as weighing only 15 tons, and the Valley & Siletz apparently lengthened it in 1923.

Bill

[Spud man]

Great information! Thanks, I am going to take the suggestion and start this under general discussion.

[Steven Otte]

Thread moved.

["JaBear"]

BUMP!!!

[hon30critter]

Hi Spud man:

JaBear just sent me a pm to let me know about your thread. You have chosen an interesting project!

Not too long ago I built a railtruck that has a similar wheel arrangement to what you want to build. I scratch built pretty much everything except the cab. The motor and wheel sets came from a very old kit which I picked up on eBay.

Here is the truck before paint:

Here is the kit I used to supply the chassis parts. As I mentioned it is very old and probably difficult to find, but companies like NWSL can supply most of the parts.

This is the chassis under construction. The motor will be mounted on top of the two short pieces of the frame with the shaft pointing straight down:

Scratch built front truck with power pick up, and rear axle. Its a bit crude. You will definitely want power pick up on all six wheels or you end up with a shelf queen:

If you have questions about how I did things please ask.

I have also worked with both Stanton drives from NWSL and BullAnt drives from Hollywood Foundry in Australia. Both work really well. I think the biggest problem you would have with either one is that you might not be able to get a short enough wheel base for the front truck. Don't quote me on that. I may be wrong.

If I were doing your project, I would scratch build the whole chassis. I would power the rear axle just like the original. The motor could sit right above the rear axle as I did with the railtruck, or it could be mounted up front with a drive shaft like the prototype. If you mount it over the rear axle keep in mind that it will be visible through the windows.

Building the body could be done from scratch using either styrene or wood car siding. An alternative would be to pick up passenger cars with similar windows and doors. Cars like these would provide all the windows and doors you need:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/HO-AHC-Rivarossi-Pennsylvania-Standard-Passenger-Cars-Assortment-/222009682883?hash=item33b0ceebc3:g:4csAAOSwa-dWq9I0

A cheap used Athearn caboose would provide a perfect back end.

The roof could be done either with brass sheet or with a simple block of wood. I would personally use brass just for the challenge but I would make a wood blank slightly smaller than the actual roof to form the brass sheet over. It would probably take a couple of tries before I got it right.

Anyhow, there are a few ideas for you to think about.

Regards

Dave

By the way, welcome to the forums!!!   

[hon30critter]

Made the link to the railcar clickable:

http://photos.salemhistory.net/cdm/singleitem/collection/max/id/1651/rec/1

Dave

[Spud man]

Thanks for the tips. There is another image of the front. To me, it looks like the roof is canvas. I grew up in the Valsetz, which is where the lumber mill was located. The average rainfall was about 120 inches. I wonder how bad that roof leaked? I am tossing around the (crazy) idea of trying to model the roof in fabric. I am currently going through both images to come up with a build plan.

 

Regards,

 

Jim

 

http://photos.salemhistory.net/cdm/singleitem/collection/max/id/1652/rec/2

["JaBear"]

Gidday Jim, firstly for the period the railcar was built, it was common practice for the passenger car roofs to be wooden sheathed and covered with canvas.

To quote from “The American Railroad Passenger Car” by John H. White JR.

“During the early years of the steel car, the mechanics of roof construction posed some special problems. The insistence on fireproof cars forced designers into all metal roof construction. The elaborate clerestory roof was easily translated from wood to steel, but making it watertight was another matter. The Pennsylvania first used soft solder joints, but these failed because of flexing of the roof, and around 1910.......................Pullman devised a cap joint that proved watertight, though not beautiful....................The extra initial cost and the maintenance problems connected with an all metal roof caused many roads to stay with wood sheathed, canvas covered roofs. The treated canvas was waterproof and fire resistant, and the insulation problems were more easily solved.”

You haven’t mentioned what scale you’re going to build the railcar to, because that, of course, has a bearing on the level of detail required. My own problem while scratch building is that when I don the 3x spectacles, I then agonise how to, then push my boundaries of my abilities to achieve the desired effect and look, only to find that when I place the hard earned fruits of my labours the distance it would be normally viewed at on the layout, that the “blood, sweat and tears” are not obvious at that distance!!!  

As I work in HO scale I think that I’d make the roof out of a fine grained wood block as I would find it easier to get the right shape, and try to simulate the canvas by texturing the paint. I have used tinfoil to simulate canvas tarpaulins with reasonable, too me, results, but think I’d give it up as a bad joke trying to use it on that roof.

Bottom line is you have to be happy with your efforts, and if you don’t try, then you’ll never know if a particular technique works.

Just remember, Have Fun.

Cheers, the Bear.

PS, don’t feel obliged but an occasional update of your process/ progress would be appreciated.

[Spud man]

Bear, thanks for the tips. I am working in HO scale and 1.5x magnification. The materials are starting to arrive, so now progress will be limited by time management

[hon30critter]

Hi Jim:

Sorry for the slow response. I hadn't clicked on your link to the photo of the front of the car.

I agree. That definitely looks like a canvas roof. Doing it in fabric would be good if you can find something with a very tight weave. I'm thinking maybe silk, but then you would have to use a well thinned paint or maybe just a black marker to avoid filling in the texture. The roof structure is also a bit uneven. That should be modeled. Using a wood base for the roof would make that easy.

One other thing I noticed in the second photo was the whistle on the front right. It looks to have three pipes for sound. I suspect it was rather shrill. You absolutely have to model that detail!

Sorry, I'm not trying to dictate to you. I'm just enthused about the project. I'm tempted to do one myself as a sister for the McKeen Motor Car.

Dave