I have the new Amfleet I and II cars from Walthers. Need to custom paint some additional cars, including an ex-Metroliner cab car, to match their stainless steel finish. Can anyone with experience steer me in the right direction? Would Alclad Stainless Steel be a good match?
CJ:
The man to speak to is AntonioFP45. He has done some fantastic work with the Alclad products. Maybe send him a PM if he doesn't respond to your thread.
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
Dave, thank you for the kind words. After a long hiatus I should be posting some new work soon.
Hello CJ,
Click on these links. Hopefully you will find them useful.
http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/88/t/195132.aspx
http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/88/p/195446/2161344.aspx#2161344
"I like my Pullman Standards & Budds in Stainless Steel flavors, thank you!"
Working on some passenger cars myself, going to use alcad chrome for mine
Modeling on the cheap
Thank you so much for the very detailed info. I knew someone had been down this road before. You increased my confidence greatly.
One follow-up question: For doing a car body that has both painted surfaces and the Alclad, would you mask off any areas to be painted when doing the Alclad or over-paint it in another step? I'm thinking of the blue window bands on an Amtrak cab car, as well as the yellow and black front of it.
CJ, glad the links were helpful.
An ex-Metroliner Cab Car will be a very neat project!
http://www.railpictures.net/images/d1/1/4/5/4145.1373930774.jpg
Either approach will work.
My preference is to keep it simple and "over-paint" (just like the protoype ). In the case of applying paint on top of "stainless steel": After metalizing a shell and sealing it with the gloss clear, I'll carefully mask off the appropriate sections and airbrush directly on top of it. (Use a high quality tape that doesn't allow bleed-through on its edges. Always burnish the edges before spraying.)
If I like the results, the next step is to apply decals, then seal with either a gloss or semi-gloss clear (depending on how much I want the Alclad2 finish to dull down)
AntonioFP45, thanks again. This is all very helpful. I have the Metroliner coach car sitting here ready to get worked on, but finding the time may be more of a challenge. At least I don't have to worry about the paint part any longer.
Fourt: Thanks. I looked at the Alclad website and of course one can't tell a thing about end results from looking at the little pictures, so appreciate your input. Chrome seems to be the way to go.
Guys,
Instead of Chrome #107, go with the Aluminum #105. Don't worry about the name. When painted over a glossy "Gray" basecoat color foundation, you will get a stainless steel effect that's similar to that of prototype units.
I discovered in my experimenting a few years ago that with the #105 formula (applied on the Walthers unit pictured below), it takes fewer coats of clear to tone down the 105's sheen (in most cases, just one!).
Although either formula will work since they are similar, Chrome 107 is formulated to yield a very brilliant sheen.
Remember to not use Black as the foundation or your finish will appear too dark. Make sure that your Gray foundation goes on wet and smooth. I respectfully, but strongly, emphasize that it's worth the extra few minutes to practice applying the basecoat on a smooth scrap piece of plastic.
AntonioFP45 in some of your posts you say to use chrome and others use aluminium is there much of a difference between them? On one of my cars i want a faded look to the roof which color should i use, thinking the white aluminium.
Hello Fourt,
I should have explained. On my older threads I use the Chrome 107, on the newer threads, I've switched over to the Aluminum 105. But don't worry, the tone yield (grayness) is basically the same.
When I started experimenting with the product, I eventually found that Chrome 107 over gloss gray yielded excellent results as far as the tone color of the 300 series Martensitic Stainless Steel used on Budd cars. Oddly, even though I used various grays, I discovered that Scale Coats' stock NYC Dk Gray and NYC Lt Gray were excellent for the tone's appearance (Dk Gray for new or well maintained SS, Lt Gray for SS that's aged).
Modelers responded positively, however, there were complaints that the Chrome 107 was "too shiny". Here is an example of the Chrome finish with no clear coat applied yet (do you see the camera's image?):
No problema.....simple solution was (and still is) to apply 1 to 4 thin medium wet coats of clear to lower the sheen. However, based on photos sent to me from some modelers, I noticed that some of us have a tendency to apply clear coat too thick or from too great a distance resulting in either runs, or a rough finish. Clear, imho, should be applied in light to medium wet coats. (Some modelers, imho, don't seem to have the patience to practice basic airbrush spray techniques and, instead, want fast results. AKA: Instant Gratification). It's not just in this hobby........scale auto, aircraft, and marine craft modelers too!
As I continued experimenting with other Alclad Metalizers, I discovered that Formula 105 is similar to the 107, however, the sheen yielded is lower.
When applied over gloss black, the 105 takes on an aluminum appearance, which was the original intent. HOWEVER, when the 105 is used over either one one of the NYC grays, it takes on the SS appearance but with a slightly lower sheen! Translation: Sheen on the 105 formula can be easily toned down with one coat of gloss clear. Further coats of clear may be applied but should be done AFTER the decals have been applied.
Re: Faded roof. Keep it simple. Add additional coats of clear to your roof. Each coat of clear brings down the sheen. In fact, too many coats and you'll wind up with a very faded silverish type of appearance (appropriate for Penn Central, lol! ).
As you refinish your shell, at the same time refinish one to two small pieces of scrap styrene. After Alcladding your shell and scrap pieces, apply 1 to 2 clear coats to both scrap pieces (5 to 10 minutes between coats). Stop when you're satisfied with the finish (check in natural outdoor lighting).
On one of the scrap pieces continue applying clear (5 to 10 minutes between coats) until you reach the faded effect that you want for your roof. Now you'll know how many coats of clear to apply to your shell's roof.
fourt AntonioFP45 in some of your posts you say to use chrome and others use aluminium is there much of a difference between them? On one of my cars i want a faded look to the roof which color should i use, thinking the white aluminium.
okay i see, for the aluminum do mean the 105 polished aluminum or the 101 aluminum? for the gray i am planning on using a spray bottle, what brand and color do you recomend? Thanks
Fourt,
1. Respectfully, my suggestion is the 105 Polished Aluminum. Over either one of the NYC Grays (or similar) it will resemble stainless steel, not aluminum.
2. Spray bottle????? Forgive me I'm not quite following you.
Are you referring to aeresols? If so, the Scale Coat NYC grays are available in spray can form from Minuteman Scale Models
http://www.minutemanscalemodels.com/category-s/148.htm?searching=Y&sort=13&cat=148&show=10&page=5
I know my bias is showing, but I'm not a fan of rattle cans for overall model passenger car paint jobs. I've seen some outstanding work performed by modelers using rattle cans, however imho, you just don't get the "fine tuning", comfort, and control that is offered by an airbrush. But by all means if that's how you roll, go for it but make sure to practice on scrap pieces first .
fourt okay i see, for the aluminum do mean the 105 polished aluminum or the 101 aluminum? for the gray i am planning on using a spray bottle, what brand and color do you recomend? Thanks
Oaky will try the 105. Was just thinking that the spray can, not bottle my mistake would be easier, after thinking about it would probebly go on too thick.
i have some time yet before i will be painting as will not be ordering the detail parts for the cars till Jan 1 and the gray bottle paint. in fact one model i have not started to strip yet in alcohal and two that going to try oven cleaner to get the last bit of paint off.
Thanks for the help
Fourt, glad to be of help .
Just curious.........what brand/type are the passenger car(s) that you planning on stripping and metalizng?
Antonio45: Thanks for all the tips. I think I can do this now.
Do you by any chance have experience with stripping the metallic finish off Walthers passenger cars? Is that different than stripping regular paints?
I have a Metroliner coach car that I will convert to a cab car (removing motor and pantograph and adding details to match the current state of the cars).
right now i have
lifelike observation, and a vista dome
tycho baggage/coach
athearn rpo and baggage
plan on getting more a money allows
Here is my photo bucket page that has some of the cars on it
http://s1078.photobucket.com/user/14fourteen14/library/?sort=3&page=1
CJ,
I've stripped many shells, unfortunately no metalized Walthers or BLI units. I will be attempting to strip an older run plated Rapido shell for a modeler but that's likely a spring or summer project as I still have about 10 other shells on my personal list.
I don't know how hard the metalized "plating" is, but to be prepared I plan on having 91% alcohol, and (as per modeler Cedarwood Ron's recommendation), a purple bottle of Super Clean on hand. Hopefully the finish won't be too tough to remove on the Walthers, Rapido, and BLI units.
thanks for sharing those photos. Looking forward to seeing you posting your work as you make progress. A respectful reminder: Make sure that your surface is CLEAN and that there is no visible glue "globs", body filler, or deep gashes on the surface. The flipside of metalizing is that every surface defect and "boo-boo" will be seen!
Ask me how I know, lol !
Preparation is 95% of the job.
fourt Here is my photo bucket page that has some of the cars on it http://s1078.photobucket.com/user/14fourteen14/library/?sort=3&page=1
The models are more stripped now, one is almost ready for primer, the rest of them are waiting parts that i will order after Jan 1. I have to scratch build the under frame for one of them, lost it somewhere. Been working on the f units that i have most of the parts for. Plenty to keep me busy.