Good Morning, (EST)
A while back, someone suggested that my layout was large enough for "feeder wires".
I seem to be losing power at my farther end (away from the power plugins).
Could someone explain the principle of feeder wires, ie, how they work, why they work and most importantly, how do I put them in.
I currently have a 18 vAC - 16 vDC for this particular part of my layout. Is that enough power. Layout is oval (3x4 ft) with reverse crossover and 4 sidings.
cplmckenzie
Okay, here's the really simplified version:
Any conductor (rail, wire, whatever) has a certain amount of resistance to electrical flow. That resistance makes itself known in the form of voltage drop. The longer and/or the smaller the conductor, the more resistance and therefore the higher the voltage drop.
With a few exceptions, the materials generally used for rail have a higher resistance than copper wire of roughly the same size. Also, rail joints that aren't soldered can be a source of additional resistance if they are loose, or if they have oxidized (doesn't take much). That's why you are losing power at the far end of your layout.
The solution is to run a bus consisting of a pair of copper wires under the layout, roughly following the tracks above. These bus wires should be of a size to minimize the voltage drop at the far end of the layout.
There are formulas out there to tell you what size wire to use, but without resorting to all that 14 gauge copper house wire is often used because it's usually beefy enough for home layouts (even large ones, if wired properly), readily available, and relatively easy to work with.
The problem is that such large wire doesn't lend itself to connecting to the track very easily. That's where feeders come in.
Feeders are short lengths of smaller-guage wire, usually 20 or 22 guage, that are used to feed power from the under-layout bus to the track. Because they are so short (preferably six inches or less), they don't introduce much resistance, and therefore not much voltage drop.
The key is to have enough feeders. Some folks recommend a set of feeders for every section of track, other folks say that's overkill. The important thing is to have enough to allow the layout to operate properly.
Here's an old MR video narrated by the late Andy Sperandeo that shows much of what I've outlined above. For some reason the audio is out of synch, but it still does a great job of showing and explaining track wiring basics:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nDm2sE5AXYg
Good luck with your new wiring project!
Thanks. This wil be the next project .... after leveling my track.
You can get spools of 14 gauge stranded wire at stores like Home Depot and Lowes. They are available in different colors and lengths.
George In Midcoast Maine, 'bout halfway up the Rockland branch
Yes, what they said. LION uses 14 ga solid wire, was scraps in scrap bind in powerhouse. LION clamp one end in vice and using a knife, stripped the insulation off of the entire length. Now him has copper bus wires. Him thought him good to go.
NOT
Over theyears dust and chemicals from the insulation adhered to the wire making soldering impossible. LION had to clean the wire with laquer thinner, sand paper, rosin flux and then try to solder.
LION will not pull out his hair, or pull his tail off, but him will probably remove the bare bus wire and install something else.
Layout of LION is DC, ysed to have six different cabs [now has NO cabs] but LION still had nice four conductor cables with stranded 14 ga wire. Him will run these in say 5' runs, and will then place a length of open bare bus made of 1/16" welding rod. Clean, easy to solder to. Cables have Black, White, Red, and Green conductors. RED = 600 vdc power to third rail (Ok is really 8-10 v dc for track power); GREEN = GROUND (I do not know why - Green is ground in building and AC wiring, typically BLACK is common in DC wiring); WHITE= +16vdc signal/detection bus with automation relays. BLACK = HOTEL POWER Lighting and stuff. Layout of LION has LOTS of lighting.
Of course LION hasl has thousands of other wires on layout, switch machines, and the automation system. each of 40 stops has five wires. OK, you did not ask, but I will tell you. 1) Track Detector, a reed switch between the guage which pulls when under train magnet passes it, applys +16vdc signal signal to wire to pull relay back on main relay board. 2) Displays Green Signal; 3) Displays Yellow Signal; 4) displays RED signal; and 5) sends signal to local track realy from time clock on main relay board to connect next power section to the dead section where the train stopped in the station.
See.... LIONS 8like* simple. No dang 'puters for this LION!
ROAR
The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.
Here there be cats. LIONS with CAMERAS
CplMcKenzie:
I agree with what has been said. One addition, solder feeder wire to track, and solder feeder wire to buss wire.
Colour coding all wires is also a very good idea.
Dave
Yes, solid strand 14 AWG house wire is pretty inexpensive and works fine for layout bus wire.
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
My DCC 16x18 ft around the garage walls layout is built in 8 ft modules. Each module has a set of feeders aproximately in the middle. I have no boosters and no power problems.
Lackawanna Route of the Phoebe Snow
Be very careful to maintain polarity.
I got a roll of #16 THHN (stranded) in blue and a roll of THHN (stranded) in red wire for my feeders. #16 stranded is much easier to handle and run than solid wire. Two #16 wires in parallel is about the same as a single #12 wire. I ran each color in parallel (2 blue and 2 red wires) around my layout. About every 10' the feeders were connected to 'shorting blocks' (http://www.led-switch.com/terminal_blocks.htm scroll down). One shorting block for red, another for blue. I ran single conductor red and blue wire out to the track (3' 4' max) where #18 or #20 solid wire was soldered to the rails and dropped under the track. I used wire nuts for the #16 to solid wire connections.
This method adds a lot of versitility and trouble shooting ease to your wiring.
This method works well for accessory wire also, using different color wires and different shorting blocks.
Please don’t use generic words like HOUSE WIRE. It only confuses people, like the guy at the store. What is house wire? As an electrician when I hear ‘house wire’ I immediately think of Romex because that is what an electrician uses to wire a house. Romex is three or four solid wires in one stiff cable. That is not what you want to use.
The wire you want to use for the job is #14 THHN stranded wire. This is machine wire. It is never used in the construction of a home. You will need at least two different colors. I use white for the north rail and red for the south rail. (West is left, East is right) If I ever forget which color goes where I can just look at any compass for the color key.
Also if you don’t like to solder you can use wire nuts. There are kinds which just clamp right on to the wires without cutting.
Of course you don’t really need wire that fat unless you have a super long layout. I use (door) bell wire. It is a pair of #18 solid wires bundled together, one white and one red. The disadvantage of solid wire is that it is stiff and if it breaks it gets a short where stranded wire can break a few strands and still be good.
Sorry for the rant but it might save someone a big headache dealing with a store employee. It is better to know exactly what you are shopping for than depending on help.
Romex no legal in NYC, must use at least BX else conduit.
BX is a pain in the tail.
LION uses whatever wire him can get...THIS is what him got
It has 6 bundles of 11 conductors each, LION had 6 30' pieces of it.
Stripped out on ano the layout it looks like this:
Disclaimer: This post may contain humor, sarcasm, and/or flatulence.
Michael Mornard
Bringing the North Woods to South Dakota!
stranded hook-up wire...all sizes & colors
stranded Hook up wire is more flexible than "building" type stranded wire beacuse of the stranding
http://www.bulkwire.com/wire-cable/stranded-hookup-wire-300v-ul-1007-1569.html
You do not need a bus for a 3'x4' layout.
Just run an extra set of wires from your power pack to the point furtherest from your current track hookup. I'm able to connect 2 wires to each of my power pack DC posts. But if you can not, then add a spade connector to the end of each wire - 2 spades will fit.
Hook them up to the track the same way you hooked up the first set. Personally, I use 18 gauge wire for this, but smaller should work also.
Good luck
Paul
Phoebe Vet Be very careful to maintain polarity.
Or funs over!