BLI RF16 Sharknose Diesel

[chessiecat]

I received my RF 16 Sharknose diesels last week and was wondering what your thoughts were about the sounds and running features of these locomotives.

Jim

[DAVID FORTNEY]

Why don't you tell us if you have them? I'm thinking about getting an AB set.

[gmpullman]

My A-B-A set of NYC RF-16s arrived about a week ago. Overall I am quite pleased with their operation and sound. I have not had the time to give them a very thorough workout but I did put them on the head end of a 70 car freight and even though only the two As are powered they did a very good job of pulling that train (2% ruling grade)

One odd feature is BLI's design of the tab and hoop "coupler" provided between the A and B unit. It seems that BLI equips all the A units with this tab at the rear end so IF you want to run A-B-A you will have to change out atleast one drawbar with the provided Kadee clone.

You HAVE to remove the shell since the screw head faces the frame and even then it is a bit of a challenge to get at the screw. I don't know what BLI was aiming at with this setup but I bet they are going to get a little negative feedback from some modelers that don't want to take apart their new engine just to get a workable coupler on the back end. Anyone that gets a single A unit will have to make the modification.

You see the extra wide pan head screw will interfere with that metal bracket so it is tough to even get the little bugger started. The coupler is rigid to this bracket and the whole thing swings on a "wishbone" affair that allows for extention in the curves and tightens up in the tangent. The stampings for this arrangement are a bit rough and mine do not swing very smoothly however they have not caused any derailments. BLI has them oiled up pretty generously!

I have not tweaked the sound levels but, to me, the Baldwin 608-A sounds pretty convincing. Out of the box the air horn sounds like a three chime but I'm pretty certain the horn should be a Leslie A-200. I could be wrong on that and I have not checked if BLI provides alternate air horns in the sound file. I'll update when I get more information.

I bought a single B&O A unit as well. Some of the perforations on the side screens look distracting in the lighter colors of the B&O engine but I gave the screens a wash in India ink and that toned it down a bit.

You can get a single powered B unit. The A-B set comes only with a dummy B unit. I may choose to add a larger speaker and perhaps take advantage of the wheel pickups for additional current collection. The bronze pickup strips are there behind the sideframes.

The windshields are set back in the frames a bit. Perhaps a manufacturer will offer laser-cut replacements someday. Otherwise, I'm going to keep them as they are.

F7 will turn on or off the red marker lights. They don't seem to be direction oriented but this might be customizable in the CVs.

I can provide more as time permits but for now I'm away from the layout so I am not at liberty to experiment further.

Overall, I like them very much and being a NYC, B&O, PRR modeler they fit my roster nicely.

Regards, Ed

[chessiecat]

I have never heard these engines run in real life. I thought maybe some of you may have had been fortunate to hear the real engines.

I got the B&O A&B units and  have test run them only. I think they sound great and run good right out of the box. The horn and bell sounds are great. 

Jim

[gmpullman]

I got to hear them on the Monongahela and then later on the D&H back in 1975. The BLI sound is very good, I agree, but to my ear the ESU Loksound which is a 606-A recording has just a bit more robust sound. To my liking, anyway.

Splitting hairs? Yes. Sounds being a subjective matter? Yes.

Kato offered their P-42s with the customers choice of Loksound or Tsunami but since BLI is hevily invested in Paragon II and now III a modeler would have to make the conversion on their own.

Ed

[gmpullman]

Here's a few more photos for anyone interested...

 

 NYC_Baldwin by Edmund, on Flickr

 

IMG_3971_fix_sm by Edmund, on Flickr

 

 

 

I'll try to get some of the B&O engine posted soon... Ed

[dinwitty]

I remember them in Lafayette on the NYC but couldn't verify the engine sounds. I ordered NYC A/B powered as I will have some grades. I couldn't do a 2nd A because they don't have a 2nd numbered engine, more than likely I'll triple up with an FA unit. NYC was not set on just one engine, they mixed and matched.

[gmpullman]

I can not confirm if these Baldwins were ever modified but as built they would not M.U. with any other manufacturer's control system. They used an air throttle control and Westinghouse electrical control. NYC traded their RF-16s to GE in the fall of 1967 and then I think nine went to the Monongahela.

I believe some railroads may have modified the MU system and the NKP rebuilt some of their Baldwins with EMD components.

You're right about NYC mixing a variety of engine types but I'm not sure about Baldwins being in the mix.

Ed

[ACY Tom]

I agree that Baldwin's MU system was often incompatible with other makes.  It would be best to check your prototype road.  I think some F-M's may have had the same system as an option, but I'm not sure.  Sharks were built with no MU on the nose end.  I recall seeing two PRR A-A Shark sets running through Akron in the 1960's.  This was a "diesel double header" with two engine crews!  B&O bought their first Sharks as A-A sets in 1950, purchasing more A and B units in 1952 and 1953.  When B&O needed to add a unit to a Shark set, they often put a Baldwin road switcher in the middle of the consist, since it had MU connections at both ends.

I haven't heard the BLI units, but can tell you that a four-unit set of RF-16's was about the most dramatic sounding of all diesels.  They made a deep, throaty burbling sound, as if bubbles were about to start coming out of the stack.  No Alco could compare!

Tom

[ndbprr]

So how do you remove the shell? The drawings are not helpful.

[gmpullman]

ndbprr

So how do you remove the shell? The drawings are not helpful.

Its a simple matter of removing the front coupler of the A unit then with the engine held right-side-up use your finger tips to slightly bow the sides away from the frame and with a little shaking the chassis will drop out. The rear portion slides out easily, the nose end is slightly tighter.

Very similar to the BLI F-7s but the tabs that engage the chassis are much less robust on the RF-16 so the "toothpick" trick probably isn't necessary.

It takes a little jiggling to get the nose started onto the frame when re-assembling but once you get everything lined up it slides over the chassis and snaps back into place.

The tabs are slightly offset on the B unit so you can observe the orientation and get the shell on in the correct direction. The B unit dummy chassis is a flat stamping so there's no obvious way to determine the "F" of the locomotive other than observing the offset tabs. I don't have a powered B unit but most other manufacturers simply have the same chassis for As or Bs. Maybe BLI does the same with theirs.

Hope that helps, Ed

[ndbprr]

My PRR a & b have three minor complaints:
1.one of the side hood vents has several holes plugged from being glued on.
2. A couple of lower fuel gauges are crooked.
3. The schematic drawing of the chasis shows part #85 in a box which is doors to replace the front coupler which is not included.

[dinwitty]

Wikipedia says you could MU with special equipment, I could simply assume that, or they double crewed them, just for the semi-freelance excuse to do that. My father prolly has photos of them running around Lafayette. Aside from that I have an ole Mantua Shark I might repower with stantons or something, plus I got a few Model Power sharks A&B's while waiting for the BLI's. BLI will re-release the shark with Paragon 3 later on, I am getting both powered A&B, and might repeat it again with P3, hopefully they change road numbers around.

[ALEX WARSHAL]

dinwitty,

When you reference LaFayette do you mean the DeWitt Yards near Syracuse, NY?

-Alex Warshal

[dinwitty]

wait whut?

[ACY Tom]

Dinwitty:

I guess your question is something like "How do you explain that?"  Here's an abbreviated history:

EJ&E bought Baldwin ABBA demonstrator DR4-4-1500 locomotives 6001A, 6001B, 6001B1, and 6001A1 in 1950.   They became EJ&E 700A, 700B, 701B and 701A.  PRR was the only other buyer of new DR4-4-1500's.  These were 1500 h.p. predecessors of the 1600 h.p. RF-16 represented by the BLI model.  Visually, they differed from the RF-16's in that the side panels reflected some fairly minor changes.  B&O bought the EJ&E units in 1955, renumbering them 847, 847x, 849x, and 849 (later 4200, 5200, 5201, and 4201) .  PRR, B&O, and NYC bought new RF-16's, with some NYC units eventually going to Monongahela and D&H. 

Make sense now?

Tom   

[dinwitty]

Have to dig the memory banks harder, West Lafayette, IN, NYC had a grinding hill near the airport where I lived as a kid we could nearly see the mainline, one day one train was stuck on the hill and took photos, don't remember the loco lashup. After I saw that photo I researched my self...aww Ooookaaay. maybe..maybe I'll do a set up EJ&E, I am modeling the EJ&E in a small way to do interchange, but then I have an RT-624 subbing for a DT-6-6-2000, because I couldnt find one, but they look too similar, to do transfer service to my North Shore line, but the sharks may have been used more mainline so, maybe I will ...or not, but I have some surplus sharks a's and B's already to figger something out for.

[ACY Tom]

Alex:

My understanding is that NYC usually operated their RF-16 Sharks on their old Big Four lines, primarily between Cleveland and Indianapolis.  I'm not aware that they operated in New York State, although I guess it could have happened.  A New York Central specialist could give more definitive information.

Tom

[fmilhaupt]

ACY

My understanding is that NYC usually operated their RF-16 Sharks on their old Big Four lines, primarily between Cleveland and Indianapolis.  I'm not aware that they operated in New York State, although I guess it could have happened.  A New York Central specialist could give more definitive information.

That's consistent with most of the photos I've seen.

Later in their careers, sharks showed up from time to time in Detroit, based on some photos I've seen in Classic Trains and Diesel Era, but I doubt that the Detroit area was a regular assignment.  

[dinwitty]

anybody get working cab lights? They promoted it but mine don't have it, pulled the shell...no lights. I have ideas of my own to make working cab lights like light up the controllers with localized lighting instead of an all around cab light.

[dinwitty]

ahh,,,BLI said they were never cab lighted, and so it goes. I'll have my own fun working something up in the days weeks years whatever and maybe change the red markers to RGW. There are tiny RGB LED's out there. Function decoder here we go.