I am in the process of building the Walthers Cornerstone Back Shop.
Like all Walthers Cornerstone structures, this is a nice building which is fairly easy to build. I use Testors Model Master glue in the black plastic bottle with the needle nose applicator.
But, like all Walthers Cornerstone structures, the windows are difficult to install. They don't adhere well to the plastic window frames which are separately installed into the main walls of the structure. I am not sure if it is the clear window plastic intself or the fact that the contact surfaces between the window and the frame are poor.
I always put weights on top of the glued surfaces to press them into place. But, I always find loose windows once the glue has dried. Not all windows, but several of them. I have thought about using hot glue, but I have never tried it.
Do others have this problem?
What do you do to secure the surfaces between the windows and the window frames?
Rich
Alton Junction
Rich,
I suspect the limited contact caused by the rough surface on the back of the window framing. I tend to use canopy cement these days, as it is somewhat gap-filling and dries so it's flexible. I still use a liquid cement like you do, depending ...
Your post has me thinking. Since the "glass" seems smooth enough, what about sanding the back of the window framing? That would provide better contact and more tooth for the cement to do its thing?
Mike Lehman
Urbana, IL
Thanks, Mike.
I think a big part of the problem is that the "glass" is not perfectly flat. When the glue is first applied, and you press down on the glass with your finger, you can see it make contact with the window frame. But as soon as you let up on the finger pressure, the glass lifts up away from the frame, at least in some places.
Most of the Liquid glues are MEK and the Clear plastic (Acrylic) does NOT melt like sytrene does with MEK.
I have had to resort to the Tennx 7r as that is Methlene Cloride which is a lot more agressive glue and is used for the more exotic plastics (ABS, Acrylic, Butyrate and other Plastruct plastic types).
But another method is to put spots of Super Glue along the edges once the Testors glue is dry and again weight the plastic down.
I have been using the Loctite Pro Super Glue from Walmart - long lasting (doesn't dry up in the bottle) and doesn't seem to cloud when it sets!
BOB H - Clarion, PA
cmrproducts Most of the Liquid glues are MEK and the Clear plastic (Acrylic) does NOT melt like sytrene does with MEK.
Maybe that is the problem, trying to bind styrene and acrylic together with the type of glue that I am using. I use Testors Model Master glue in the black plastic bottle with the needle nose applicator.
The window eventually sticks to the window frame in every case, but in some instances it takes small spring clamps to hold the two together until the glue dries.
I usually use the MEK (which the Testors is) and weight them or clamps but find years later that if the building gets bumped an occassional window will just pop out.
Just an FYI!
cmrproducts Rich I usually use the MEK (which the Testors is) and weight them or clamps but find years later that if the building gets bumped an occassional window will just pop out. Just an FYI! BOB H - Clarion, PA
I use G-S Hypo Cement...(canopy glue) for the frame and the window glazing, whether it be the thick clear styrene glazing or the clear acetate. Crystal clear, sets in 10 minutes and will fill gaps. If You make a mistake, can be cleaned with salty water before cured.
This Walthers Transload building office uses the clear acetate glazing, frame and window and door that I cut open, was done with the Hypo cement, very strong when cured. Also use it for the window glazing in the irregular windows in the trucks.
http://www.gssupplies.com/cement_hypo.html
Take Care!
Frank
I also use canopy glue.
If you are painting your windows, or if the kit you are building has the windows molded into the walls, make sure you don't get paint on the backs of the windows. Glue doesn't adhere well to painted surfaces, or it will pull the paint off when the joint fails. Blue tape is your friend for keeping glue joint surfaces clean.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
I have used the Hypo cement on painted surfaces and have Not encountered a problem yet....with it staying glued. Interior of the trucks are painted and I have done many of them with it.
Just my experience, using the product.
BTW: I do make sure the paint is Cured First...at least 3 days.
I haven't built that particular kit, but most Walthers Cornerstone kits I have built came with thick, molded plastic window glazing. I never use it, instead cutting my own from .015" thick clear styrene sheet. It looks much better and is easier to apply securely.
--Steven Otte, Model Railroader senior associate editorsotte@kalmbach.com
zstripe I have used the Hypo cement on painted surfaces and have Not encountered a problem yet....with it staying glued.
I have used the Hypo cement on painted surfaces and have Not encountered a problem yet....with it staying glued.
Steven Otte I haven't built that particular kit, but most Walthers Cornerstone kits I have built came with thick, molded plastic window glazing. I never use it, instead cutting my own from .015" thick clear styrene sheet. It looks much better and is easier to apply securely.
richhotrain zstripe I have used the Hypo cement on painted surfaces and have Not encountered a problem yet....with it staying glued. Frank, I am not familiar with Hypo glue. Is it a thicker glue? My sense is that you need a thicker glue to initially hold both surfaces together until they begin to dry. Rich
Frank, I am not familiar with Hypo glue. Is it a thicker glue? My sense is that you need a thicker glue to initially hold both surfaces together until they begin to dry.
Yes it is thick....come's out of a tube with a Hypo needle....about the thickness of the old Tester's tube cement, but way better than that stuff. Read the spec's on it in the link I posted. And it is Not CA.
problem could be the paint on the window frame back which causes the glue to be weak.
I never had a problem. I'm using Testors Canopy/Glass glue which is just pretty much a version of elmers white glue. When it dries, it dries clear in thin layers.
Don - Specializing in layout DC->DCC conversions
Modeling C&O transition era and steel industries There's Nothing Like Big Steam!
I've not had a problem with using either lacquer thinner or MEK for installing Walthers' window 'glass'.As mentioned, make sure that there is no paint on the gluing surface of the window frame. I install the glass to the window first, then cement the assembly in place.
Place the window frame, outside-surface-down, on your workbench, add and align the 'glass', then, while pressing down firmly on the glass with the finger(s) of your free hand, touch a brush loaded with an appropriate amount of cement to the edges where the two pieces contact. Do this on all four edges, maintaining pressure until the joint has hardened - usually only a few seconds.
If you wish to paint the doors and windows of a kit, it's easiest to do so while they're still on the sprue. In most cases, they're cast in a grid-like pattern, allowing you to mask the gluing surfaces using continuous strips of masking tape, as shown below. To make strips narrow enough to fit, place a suitable length of tape, sticky-side-down, on a sheet of glass and use a straightedge and sharp blade to make the cut. Here are masked-off doors and windows with a coat of grey primer:
...and with the tape removed:
Wayne
Since you are already used to using Testors model master glue, they also sell a product designed specifically for adhearing clear parts. It comes in the same size/shape bottle as the regular glue except it is white and dries clear.
http://www.amazon.com/Model-Master-Cement-Window-Testors/dp/B0006NDZDU
I use it and have had good luck with it. I have even made small windows with it by pulling a blob accross and opening with a toothpick.
I've had good luck with both canopy cement or the Testor's Window Cement
kelleywpns I've had good luck with both canopy cement or the Testor's Window Cement
Yes this here. Rich, I use the Model Master Clear Parts Cement, in the white bottle. It has a slow curing time though. Like 30-60 min. I add only a little amount around the edges where the windows will be placed. Then I add a soup can on there to way it down. Once its dry its solid as rock. Works great.
Here: http://www.hobbytown.com/Shop/TES8876C-Testors-Clear-Parts-Cement-Window-Maker-1-2oz/
Michael
CEO- Mile-HI-RailroadPrototype: D&RGW Moffat Line 1989
I don't think that there is anything wrong with the glue that I am using. The problem is that the surfaces of the glass and the frame do not fit flat against one another. So, the two pieces need to weighted down or clamped.
What I need is a glue that has the ability to form a glob rather than spread so that the four corners of the glass adhere to the frame.
Break the bank and buy a 4.95 tube of the G-S cement and put a round dab on each corner and along the sides clamp or weight down and leave alone for awhile. It works.....what more can I say. It is highly recommended on the Fine Scale Modeler site and Jewler's.
zstripe Rich, Break the bank and buy a 4.95 tube of the G-S cement and put a round dab on each corner and along the sides clamp or weight down and leave alone for awhile. It works.....what more can I say. It is highly recommended on the Fine Scale Modeler site and Jewler's. Take Care! Frank
I should not have used Tester's as an example.....it is a lot thicker than that.....will not run run run. Sorry, for the bad example. I use it also to make gear shift knobs on music wire in the truck models I make.
Canopy glue, Testors Clear Glass Cement, Microscale Kristal Klear and Aileene's Tacky Glue are all similar products and dry with some flexibility, not to be confused with Elmer's white glue which dries hard. These will all work as long as you weight or clamp the "glass" in place until the glue has set.
Jay
C-415 Build: https://imageshack.com/a/tShC/1
Other builds: https://imageshack.com/my/albums
modelmaker51 Canopy glue, Testors Clear Glass Cement, Microscale Kristal Klear and Aileene's Tacky Glue are all similar products and dry with some flexibility, not to be confused with Elmer's white glue which dries hard. These will all work as long as you weight or clamp the "glass" in place until the glue has set.
I still wonder if hot glue would work.
I use the thick glass that comes with the kit and glue it with Testors tube glue applied in spots on corners whith a long pin. This has worked great, I then paint the backs for shades or blinds or sometimes just black with Apple paints (weird but they work better than the expencive stuff for this purpose).
richhotrain modelmaker51 Canopy glue, Testors Clear Glass Cement, Microscale Kristal Klear and Aileene's Tacky Glue are all similar products and dry with some flexibility, not to be confused with Elmer's white glue which dries hard. These will all work as long as you weight or clamp the "glass" in place until the glue has set. Yep, that is how I see it. Gotta weight them down or clamp them. I still wonder if hot glue would work. Rich
Yep, that is how I see it. Gotta weight them down or clamp them.
It would hold, but I imagine it would be tough to get a small enough blob without it going everywhere.
My son is assembling a Walthers kit at the moment, and we have stroked the back of the window frames will a mill file to flatten them a bit, then use clear watch crystal cement to attach the "glass".
Connecticut Valley Railroad A Branch of the New York, New Haven, and Hartford
"If you think you can do a thing or think you can't do a thing, you're right." -- Henry Ford
Rather than applying the hot glue between the glass and the window frame, I was thinking about laying the glass on the window frame and then applying the hot glue against the sides of the glass/frame assembly.
richhotrain Rather than applying the hot glue between the glass and the window frame, I was thinking about laying the glass on the window frame and then applying the hot glue against the sides of the glass/frame assembly. Rich
So any blobs would be invisible on the inside? Yeah, that would probably work.
CTValleyRR richhotrain Rather than applying the hot glue between the glass and the window frame, I was thinking about laying the glass on the window frame and then applying the hot glue against the sides of the glass/frame assembly. Rich So any blobs would be invisible on the inside? Yeah, that would probably work.