Happy Holidays Folks!
Uhh in the season of giving im trying to be more positive. But I'm a little irritated that all of my engines and cars are falling apart. For example I bought the A-Line Tote system this past summer so that I wouldn't have to keep carry bags and bags of my trains to my local railroad club. This year as I'm advancing in the hobby I've bought more engines and modern equipment since forever. I've bought several engines both DCC and DC and rolling stock to inlude, autoracks, modern hoppers, steel coil cars, a few reefers, and matching caboose just for the sake of it.
Well I've been noticing for a few months now, every time I get to the club and begin to take my equipment out to run on the club layout that something is either missing or broken. Handrails are bent, brake wheels on the ends of cars missing, couplers broken especially non-Kadee ones equipped from the factory with Mchenry or Bachmann style, etc. What broke the straw though was last week I went to run my Athearn Genesis SD70ACE (UP Heritage Katy) and one of the ditch lights was so bent it was ready to fall off...hangin on barely.
Are we at a point where we want to much from manufactures that the more detail a engine has the more fragile it is and only should really be a shelf-display type of item or??? I tried to be very careful every time I handled my engines more than anything. Even on the steel coil cars, a week after i bought them the tips or steel cables of the cars broke off and I've heard that is the case with those cars.
I kept the original boxes for my engines but ditto for the rolling stock all except the Kato metra cars.
What's a guy to do? I rather just have a nice engine that runs with sound...not sure if I want all the details(very small lettering, every part etched, etc) drives up the price anyway and becomes hard to handle.
Regg
What's a guy to do? From your description, it would appear that you should be more careful. I don't see how you can think the system's design caused end damage to your equipment--it doesn't even touch the walls.
I've been using these for years, and am amazed that I've had NO damage.
One way I've been able to pull this off is to NEVER (or, hardly ever) load equipment by dropping it in the box. I lower it down in a cradle made out of that thin foam that A-Line sells. Or, lately, I just use a paper towel. And that is how I remove equipment, too. Besides acting like a cradle, the "stuff" kinda cushions the sides.
Also, as necessary, I put foam blocks (also available from A-Line) between each piece. Lately, I've found that the leftover paper towel at the ends kinda crunches up to form that cushion all by itself.
Also, when I carry the boxes, I'm very careful with them. Like there's eggs inside. Very, very messy eggs!
I've gone to a number of Freemo meets with my equipment in these boxes--hundreds of miles away--never a problem.
Ed
I was kitbashing and detailing equipment long before the current trend toward RTR models, so I got used to transporting and handling my cars and locos in such a manner as to protect them. I also became adept at repairing and replacing items that were subject to damage. Thus, as more fragile and better detailed products became commercially available, I was already accustomed to them.
The original boxes often aren't good for repeated transport, and there's some acclimation involved in wrapping and cushioning delicate models - not everyone has the desire to put up with it. Some of us like the extra detail enough to tolerate the durability compromises, so I welcome the newer models. Of course, this means the market may be listening more to customers like me, and less to others.
Rob Spangler
A couple of years ago I switched TO the A-Line system, because the one I had before stored my models on their sides and was causing damage. Since I started using the A-Line totes - no further damage. You ARE setting things on their wheels, and using the foam sheets? I have a lot of Athearn, Bowser, and Accurail hoppers tha don't have much fine detail, but I also have other cars such as Proto 2000 tank cars, Branchline Blueprint, P2K locos, and even a PCM steam loco that all go in the cases and have not had any problems with fine details being knocked off. Even have a wood kit with a mirror - the Minuteman Models i-Car tucked in my boxes. I have 4 boxes and the toate bag, all but the 4th box are completely full. It goes on the back seat of my car when I head to a club show.
Ends of cars should never touch - that's what the little squares of foam are for. Even without the foam blocks, the foam cradles make the fit tight enough that they won;t roll inside the channels themselves, but I'm not takign that chance, every roaw has 2 foam blocks against the side wall, and then at least one foam block between each car and the next. Certainly NEVER had a coupler broken - I've had cars fall off of 48" high benchwork onto a cement floor and while many things broke, not once did a coupler - but I only use real Kadees. Definitely never had anything on the ends of my cars damaged in the A-Line totes. Sounds liek maybe you are just setting your rollign stock in th plain carboard boxes, without any of the foam materials? That will cause problems.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
I bought the foam too but the problem with that is it moves and slides in the box. I put the long foam strips at the bottom of each row and then put the foam squares between each car. When I open the box the cars are all smashed up against the squares particularly the heavy locos from sliding in the box due to the foam under the wheels sliding. Another problem may be that I bought the high boxes which are for the superliner and autocarrier cars but most of the cars i have are small enough to fit in the regular size box so could be that the cars have too much room and space and thats why their not cushioned so well in the box. I need to take a picture of my box so you guys can see what it is im talking about.
The details become pretty fine when we reduce the prototype dimensions to 1/48, 1/64, 1/87.1, 1/160, or even finer. So there are a couple things we can do.
1. Settle for models that have oversized or missing details. That's what we did in the clunky old days of moded-in roofwalks, ladders and grabs. Those cars were just about indestructible, and looked it.
2. Use stronger or more flexible material for the details. That probably means a more expensive model, or more time and effort expended in redetailing commercial models.
3. Be more careful when we handle, pack, and transport the models.
I can't think of any other options, but I'm ready to listen to other ideas.
Tom
I have the regular height ones, mainly because I model the 50's and have none of this high cars.
Also don't put locos in the same row as cars. Yes, one of my 4 boxes is MUCH heavier than the others, because it has all my locos. I do put more than one loco in the same row, just not with any cars.
And keep the things level, or close to it. I lay mine across my back seat, side to side, so when I take it out of the car, or put it in, I don't have to tilt it much.
Regg05 I bought the foam too but the problem with that is it moves and slides in the box. I put the long foam strips at the bottom of each row and then put the foam squares between each car. When I open the box the cars are all smashed up against the squares particularly the heavy locos from sliding in the box due to the foam under the wheels sliding. Another problem may be that I bought the high boxes which are for the superliner and autocarrier cars but most of the cars i have are small enough to fit in the regular size box so could be that the cars have too much room and space and thats why their not cushioned so well in the box.
I bought the foam too but the problem with that is it moves and slides in the box. I put the long foam strips at the bottom of each row and then put the foam squares between each car. When I open the box the cars are all smashed up against the squares particularly the heavy locos from sliding in the box due to the foam under the wheels sliding. Another problem may be that I bought the high boxes which are for the superliner and autocarrier cars but most of the cars i have are small enough to fit in the regular size box so could be that the cars have too much room and space and thats why their not cushioned so well in the box.
Your problem, then, appears to be that you're letting the boxes tilt too much as you transport them. This system needs you to keep thing pretty level. It will not work if you act like a DHL driver.
The problem is not likely to be attributable to the box height. You should not be handling them in such a way that they are jumping up high enough to hit the top of the box.
I, too, have the foam strips in the bottom. And the foam squares in between. Since we both have similar setups, and I don't have problems, and you do, I expect the problem is how you are handling the boxes in transport.
ACYI can't think of any other options, but I'm ready to listen to other ideas.
I like option 4, leave the highly detailed models on the railroad at home and just travel with the clunkers. Keep the detailed models away from Joe Smash and Harry Crash at the club.
So there. lol
Rich
If you ever fall over in public, pick yourself up and say “sorry it’s been a while since I inhabited a body.” And just walk away.
TheWizardThat's what Athearn RTR is for :)
Not so fast..Some of those RTR cars and locomotives has fragile detail that will easily break off..
My solution is rather simple..I keep my higher detail cars and locomotives at home and use Athearn BB engines and cars along with some Walthers,Roundhouse and older Atlas cars at the club.
I been thinking about using the newer Bachmann locomotives instead of my faithful BB engines.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
Are models today too detailed and fragile or A-Line Hobby Tote system not worth it???
Most seem to want all the fragile detailing, so we have made our bed, we need to lay in it now!
NP 2626 "Northern Pacific, really terrific"
Northern Pacific Railway Historical Association: http://www.nprha.org/
NP2626
You are correct in your assumptions. I had originally said to myself that I should just take the Athearn BB stuff to the club but was being lazy and I paid the price for it. The older BB stuff is packed away in the garage and I didn't feel like digging it out. All of the new RTR cars is very detailed and easily fragile. The steel coil cars are the absolute worst even with careful packing as I thought I had did. I had wrapped them in bubble wrap but to no avail pieces just started to break off soon after I bought it. As far as the tote system its only good if you have all 4 boxes in bag other than that the boxes move around. My club is in the basement so you have to go up and down stairs and that could have further contributed to the problem along.
I probably will go online and start buying the older BB cars for use. Even the older Athearn engines held up much better since they have the user installed metal handrails, gates, etc. They haven't sustained a scratch.
I leave my fancy, finely detailed, high dollar rtr stuff at home; and take Athearn BB and old MDC to the club and modular setups. I use Barkley's Better Boxes (a show vendor out of Houston) which work really well for my purposes.
Buy brass or change out the cheap plastic details with metal. The new RTRs are indeed fragile. I have detailed several cars and the end result was a lot more robust than what can be bought. This is because the details were metal. If it's too fragile to move than maybe it's too fragile period. Some are better than others, so I don't put them all in the same category.
Richard
I still say your main problem is having the taller cases when you didn;t need them. Between the foam along the bottom of each channel, pls the piece of foam that cradles each car, not to mention th blocks one th ends, none of my cars moves around much.
Forgot to mention the most fragile car I have - Kadee covered hopper. How they mold and then assemble plastic pieces as small as the corner and end grabs on the roof walks I'll never know. I broke one just getting it out of the original box when it was new. However, since I've been using the A-Line carrying case, nothing on that car has ever been damaged.
Things should be well packed in, too, not just a coupel of cars in each row. That also keeps them from moving. And similar cars should go together, so that you don;t have, say, a car that is a little wide in the middle of a couple smaller ones - the smaller oens will rattle around. I'd have to get them out to see how many I have in each row, but I did make a list and keep it in the top box which lists each box and how many of which cars go in each row. Partly so I avoid packing up and somehow not fitting everything back in - wait, they all came out of this many boxes, why can't they go back in? and also to make sure everything is packed right to avoid damage. So far so good, I like the product. The older ones I had, cheaper, that I picked up at the Timonium show one year - thsoe are definitely only suitable for BB level of detail, because everythign lays on its side. Even then I'd probably not to even a BB loco in them - my Proto 2000 locos with plastic handrails, they didn;t break, but on the side that was always down, they ended up bent into the body, took a piece of foam spacer and a long time to ge tthem back the way they should be. Probably bend the metal stanchions on a BB loco even.
Todays cars are a lot less fragile than you think, that being said sometimes you have to replace parts. Modern RTR stuff has metal for grabs ussually but not necisarily if same item bought as kit. I have had a few hit the concrete once because I picked up a carry box I thought was empty, boy was I happy that there was very little damage and these were Tichy based, very detailed.
Fortunately, our club has more than enough engines and cars
I like Plano plastic boxes for transporting stock. I use doubled paper towels to lift them in and out, and closed-cell foam to buffer the ends. Open cell foam can snag details. The Plano boxes are kind of limiting if you have a lot of long cars and engines, but are very durable and easy to handle.
I am in the process of building an old Branchline Blueprint Series box car kit, and given the teeny tiny details- some of which get damaged just looking at them-, I become increasing fond of the highly durable (though less accurately detailed) Athearn BB kits and old RTRs. The storage of my modern RTRs, both diesels and rolling stock has become problematic.
Can't use certain foam materials (such as styrofoam chips), as they are too stiff and can cause damage to delicate parts- and many of mine are in static storage, to be rotated out for use only on a quarterly basis on the layout.
My best solution has been a simple one- wrap each car in three full sheets of Bounty paper towels in a diagonal manner, then fold the ends together over the rolled item and secure with masking tape. This seems to stabilize the car within a protective "shell" that provides end protection on each model. I store 25-40 in one of those plastic file-folder type hinged file boxes (Sterilite) I buy at Wal-Mart. If I need to transport them, holding th box by the carrying handle minimizes any movement, so long as I have nested and packed each model well.
Cedarwoodron
I use SMD boxes with their special-designed tote bag. Carry them in my trunk (since that's the only place they can easily fit in my small car), zero damage so far...
-Ken in Maryland (B&O modeler, former CSX modeler)
I use both the Proto and A Line boxes without much trouble. As many have stated, the engines nestled in one box and like rolling stock in another. I do keep them as flat as possible and avoid any unwanted jarring/ movement. My quite fragile, highly detailed stock stays on the layout or is transported in it's original box, whenever possible. I will keep a stock odd cut blocks of foam on hand for filler for any empty slots or just throw in a random BB 40 footer to fill the tray. There's really no sure fire way/ method, as my new Spring Mills depot B&O I-12 was damaged from a minor drop. Those delicate detail parts just really can't be reproduced as well scratched built in brass/ wire. I do replace many broken grabs, sunshades pilot details etc w/ more durable brass whenever possible. Just need to use care in handling.
Modeling B&O- Chessie Bob K. www.ssmrc.org
This whole subject is exactly why I stray away from over priced, overdetailed model railroad equipment. I need stuff that works, runs, preforms. Sure, I like it to look nice too, who doesn't?....but do you REALLY need prototypically correct brake pipes & all the hand brake linkage or other "crazy level" details? You can't see half that stuff when the trains are running on the layout anyway. Does a new $35 freight car look good? Absolutley. But then you start to use it in operation & it drives you nuts. The trucks hit the simulated brake equipment & it derails, the air hoses interfere with the couplers, the details bust off every time you touch it or try to work on it. For me, they're a guilty pleasure. Most of my stuff is of the Athearn Blue Box or Roundhouse level of deatail, & although admittedly a little chuncky, this style of equipment, if weighted properly with proper coupler heights, are nearly 100 % bullet proof good runners that give little trouble & much satisfaction compared to a newer one that looks better but makes you insane with all it's "issues". There's an excellent variety of these older cars & since no one wants them anymore I can get 3 to 1 prices as compared to new items & I can litterally fill up my yards with them. Once they're weathered, they're just as nice, to me anyway.
The only problem I have ever had with the A-Line tote system was when I was active with the local modular group-- I couldn't walk away from the bags to work on other things during layout tear-down because some helpful person or another would invariably roll them over on their sides so that they would lay like the Axian trays and bags one of the other guys used. I heard "they stack better on the cart this way" as the explanation/excuse more than once.
This, despite my clearly having painted "This Side UP", with arrows in white paint on the sides, and the handles clearly not being set up for them to be transported "flat".
-Fritz Milhaupt, Publications Editor, Pere Marquette Historical Society, Inc.http://www.pmhistsoc.org
Railroaded says it well. This is why I enjoy flea markets/swap meets every several months- the old Atheran BB stuff can be rebuilt/repainted/redecaled to look quite nice and that stuff wears well. Not that we need to treat any of our models like a 4 year old playing with toys, but the durability of the old stuff serves decade after decade! I enjoy real-world fidelity, but not so much as longevity!
If you want to transport delicate rolling stock, just bubble wrap and put in tote, for real protection like in storage, use original boxes too.
I am amazed to hear how thoughtless some modelers are with other people's equipment. Why would you pick up anyone's equipment unless you were absolutely sure that you wouldn't damage it? And, if you did damage it, why would you not grovel for 10 minutes and then offer to fully replace the damaged item(s) which you now, obviously, own?
Oh, yeah. And being "absolutely sure" has to have a basis in fact--not your fantasy view of yourself.
And I would be thrilled to kick out of a club anyone who thought that the above concept didn't apply to them.
7j43kI am amazed to hear how thoughtless some modelers are with other people's equipment.
7j43kAnd I would be thrilled to kick out of a club anyone who thought that the above concept didn't apply to them.
Kicking someone out is easier said than done.
We have a club member who is prone to distraction, and is responsible for more than his share of collisions. Unfortunately, he seems to have the attitude that these are "just toys". I suppose that it would be better if some of the "toys" were his.
On the other hand, even though we would like to not have him run any of the control panels, we do need support to run the railroad during our open houses. And he is always available.
The other side of this coin is that I have watched all the other members, many of whom are vocal critics of the first individual, and there is not one amongst them, myself included, who has not had one incident or another.
My solution is to not bring any of my "toys" to the club during any group operation, blue box or otherwise. And if I were to bring them, they would resemble a wood 2 x 3 with trucks and Kadee couplers, and all the ladders, grabs, and other details would be painted on.
maxman 7j43k I am amazed to hear how thoughtless some modelers are with other people's equipment. 7j43k And I would be thrilled to kick out of a club anyone who thought that the above concept didn't apply to them. Kicking someone out is easier said than done. We have a club member who is prone to distraction, and is responsible for more than his share of collisions. Unfortunately, he seems to have the attitude that these are "just toys". I suppose that it would be better if some of the "toys" were his. On the other hand, even though we would like to not have him run any of the control panels, we do need support to run the railroad during our open houses. And he is always available. The other side of this coin is that I have watched all the other members, many of whom are vocal critics of the first individual, and there is not one amongst them, myself included, who has not had one incident or another. My solution is to not bring any of my "toys" to the club during any group operation, blue box or otherwise. And if I were to bring them, they would resemble a wood 2 x 3 with trucks and Kadee couplers, and all the ladders, grabs, and other details would be painted on.
7j43k I am amazed to hear how thoughtless some modelers are with other people's equipment.
7j43k And I would be thrilled to kick out of a club anyone who thought that the above concept didn't apply to them.
Sounds like you have "Gomaz Adams" at the operations
You guys just summed up why I also shy away from the club mentality. By the way, the "wood 2x3" comment, great.