I'd like to include a model of this loader on my layout, but I'm tight on space (surprise). How big would I need to make it for it to convincingly represent the prototype?
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How big of a space do you have?
I would try and do just the main body of the tipple area (the 4 spots under the tipple) if that was the minimum amount of room available.
You could fudge the width under the tipple where the tracks go by minimizing the area at the tracks and narrow up the 2 slots that do not have tracks to just the width of the wheel loader.
You would need to draw out the design on paper a bit to figure out how wide the building would need to be.
If you have any room left build part of the conveyor ramp.
Painting it to match the photo will go a long way in making other believe what you build is this tipple if they are any at all familiar with it!
BOB H - Clarion, PA
cmrproductsPainting it to match the photo will go a long way in making other believe what you build is this tipple if they are any at all familiar with it!
Funny you should mention that. I was thinking the same thing.
I have room for the conveyor and truck dump if I take it off at a 90 degree angle instead of going perpendicular to the tracks. I'm also cutting it down to a single track under the tipple.
I think I could fit a 10x5 tipple with a 12" conveyor coming off parallel to the tracks to a 3x5 truck dump in the space I have available.
I think that it would be easier to offer suggestions if we had a little more information.I'm not all that familiar with coal tipples, but it appears that rail cars can be loaded either from the tipple itself or directly from the conveyor, and that a similar situation exists for trucks. How would this sit on your layout - where is the backdrop on your layout in relation to the picture, and, for that matter, the aisle? And what era are you modelling - is the wheeled loader necessary or desired? What about the tracks - are they through tracks or dead-end sidings?Repositioning the conveyor will give you some leeway, but if the backdrop is to the left, it could remain as-is, but disappear rather quickly, either down into the ground or up and into a background hillside.
I'd keep both tracks, but narrow the bays to the minimum necessary for clearance. For truck loading, I'd combine the tipple- and conveyor-loading options into a single bay, again as narrow as possible. These changes will require modifications to the rest of the structure if it's to remain a recognisable model of this particular prototype. First, I'd shorten the legs somewhat - selective compression means that you select the elements needing to be compressed in order for the overall look to remain in proportion - the same way that food processors shrink a soup can both in height and diameter - it still looks right on the shelf, so you don't realise the trickery, and can't figure out why you're still hungry after consuming the contents. This will help compensate for the narrowed/missing loading bays, but now your conveyor will be at a slightly different angle - this requires that you also change the slope of the roof to more-or-less match (as it does in the photo), but I would also suggest that the peak of the roof be relocated somewhat to the left. It may also require that you decrease the height of the enclosed walls - not by much, perhaps 2'-4'.
If you simply remove portions of the prototype, what remains may bear little ressemblance to the original. Oh, yeah, by all means duplicate the paint colours and layout.
Wayne
Carl425
One has to remember that this tipple was probably back in the Steam days as the reason for multiple bays (for lack of a better term) under the Tipple as they usually produced different sizes of coal.
If you are in the Steam transition days then more than one bay would be better to represent that time period.
If you are in the Diesel era - then shortining the tipple to one bay would be somewhat realistic but usually the company would be using a more modern steel tipple designed for ONE track.
Only reason I am familiar with this is I worked as a Electrical Trouble shooter for some of our local Coal companies and repaired electrical systems on the Draglines and heavy equipment!
I also model this same area I worked in on my current layout and have talked extensively with the tipple operators to understand the Hows and Whys of the way these tipples were built - although every tipple is way different than most any other as these companies cobbled up junk to build most of the older tipples - as they didn't have any money or the mine would play out and no sense in putting a lot of money into an expensive tipple to sit unused.
Most tipples were able to crush the Coal to certain sizes but usually only the very large tipples (larger than the one pictured) made more than 2 grades/sizes of coal.
When they were that big (at least in our area) the coal had to be wash to remove the high sulfur content so this would be the reason for the larger sizes of the tipples.
From your picture it appears that they might have only had 2 sizes available as the 2 bays where the tracks are at are wider than the 2 bays next to the conveyor.
Although those bays probably were for hauling bony (slate and other non coal rock) back to the strip cut (if this pic was that new) or to a dump site elsewhare out of the picture via truck.
As far as changing the position of the conveyor to get the tipple in would be a good way of compress the scene!
cmrproductsOne has to remember that this tipple was probably back in the Steam days as the reason for multiple bays (for lack of a better term) under the Tipple as they usually produced different sizes of coal.
Thanks for the help Bob.
This photo is from 1998. It is the Spring Colliers tipple at Tacoma, VA on the N&W's Clinch Valley Line. It was built somewhere around 1970 on a site that had been occupied by other tipples in years prior. My layout is set in 1975.
Doh! Thanks for reminding me why we have tipples vs plain loaders. I guess my desire to fit this in more easily caused an episode of selective memory. I actually had the second track in an earlier plan. I'll go back and figure out how to fit it in.
Just out of curiosity, are you going to scratch build the loader or is a model of one available?
Rich
Alton Junction
richhotrain Just out of curiosity, are you going to scratch build the loader or is a model of one available? Rich
With the control I require over the dimensions I expect I'll have to scratch build it. There's probably some kitbash fodder that can use. I've seen several varieties of the beam structure the tipple sits on. The "funnel" that is used for the truck dump is actually made from an offset side hopper. I know where I can get one of those.
carl425 richhotrain Just out of curiosity, are you going to scratch build the loader or is a model of one available? Rich With the control I require over the dimensions I expect I'll have to scratch build it. There's probably some kitbash fodder that can use. I've seen several varieties of the beam structure the tipple sits on. The "funnel" that is used for the truck dump is actually made from an offset side hopper. I know where I can get one of those.
Do you have any other PICs of the tipple?
I have scratch built a lot of tipples for my current layout and had to work off pictures alone as the area has NO Tracks and all of the tipple areas have had the land reclaimed - so one would never know they were ever there!
I used sheet styrene and built the main body - I then covered the outside with the corrugated metal that Keystone Locomotive Works (Walthers #395-17) sells and it comes in a roll - there are others - usually in sheets.
For the legs - my one tipple was made out of pipe and the other had H columns. Both I used Plastruct shapes.
For windows - I used Grandt Line - a close match was all I needed as the tipples were gone and NO ONE could argue the window types! ;-)
cmrproductsDo you have any other PICs of the tipple?
Yes, I have a couple books with multiple pictures and there are several on the rail photo sites as well as http://appalachianrailroadmodeling.com where this one is linked from. This one is still standing so I plan to get some more when I make my next road trip out there.
https://maps.google.com/maps?q=Norton,+VA&ll=36.93655,-82.533973&spn=0.000939,0.001609&t=h&cid=1114856707270410568&hnear=Norton,+Virginia&z=20
When I scratch build a structure and need to compress it to fit a particular space, I design the structure using a CAD program I own (you can use paper and pencil, too) using dimensions taken from photographs or the actual building. I then print the design on cardstock, cut it out and tape a 3D mock-up together that I can place on the layout. The mock-up allows me to view the structure in context to the scene and decide where I can compress the structure while maintaining the overall "look" of the prototype. Keep in mind that reducing wall lengths might also require reducing roof heights/slopes to maintian proper proportions. I had to do this to build a model of the old Santa Fe depot and freight house in Santa Ana, California. Even though these were already relatively compact buildings, there was no way I could fit full size replicas of both the depot and the freight house in the available space on my layout. Most of the compression was in the length of the buidlings but I also had to compress the width of the buildings to fit between a pair of parallel tracks. The cardstock mock-ups showed me that I would also have to reduce the roof heights if I wanted to keep to the overall proportions seen in the few photos I had of these buildings. When the final revised cardstock mock-up looked right, I used the final mock-up dimensions to build the final models using styrene. The extra effort proved worthwhile because a former mayor of Santa Ana (and fellow train nut) almost messed his pants when he saw the finished model!
Hornblower