DAVID FORTNEY I agree with both of you guys that we need smaller prototype steam. I would love smaller steam but the mfgs seem fixated that only large steam Sells. But there must be a reason they keep making, big boys, cab forwards, SD70Aces, es44's, etc. The only thing I can think off, it must sell and the bean counters love it.
I agree with both of you guys that we need smaller prototype steam. I would love smaller steam but the mfgs seem fixated that only large steam Sells.
But there must be a reason they keep making, big boys, cab forwards, SD70Aces, es44's, etc. The only thing I can think off, it must sell and the bean counters love it.
David, it is a known fact that production batches are much smaller than a decade or two ago. The question is not if big locos sell, the question is what additional variety would sell if produced.
Increased variety expands long term interest in the hobby, growing the future markets. What happens when everybody has a Big Boy and only Big Boys are produced? That is obviously taking it to the extreem, but we are headed in that sort of direction.
I have no problem with those who just want to collect/run famous and flashy locos, but my modeling interest is about capturing a specific realistic time, place, and image. I have little interest in spending money outside that goal.
I do not and will not buy stuff just because they make it. I have never owned a Big Boy or an SD70, both are completely outside my interests.
I know a great many modelers just like myself in this regard.
But I have 135 locomotives, 1000 freight cars, 200 passenger cars, and would buy more if the right items are produced. And not just one. If someone made a B&O B18 10 wheeler that was DCC ready for $200, I would buy 3 or 4, maybe more.
Look at my partial loco list in my earlier post, I am creating a realistic working roster, not a museum collection........
Sheldon
ATLANTIC CENTRAL DAVID FORTNEY I agree with both of you guys that we need smaller prototype steam. I would love smaller steam but the mfgs seem fixated that only large steam Sells. But there must be a reason they keep making, big boys, cab forwards, SD70Aces, es44's, etc. The only thing I can think off, it must sell and the bean counters love it. David, it is a known fact that production batches are much smaller than a decade or two ago. The question is not if big locos sell, the question is what additional variety would sell if produced. Increased variety expands long term interest in the hobby, growing the future markets. What happens when everybody has a Big Boy and only Big Boys are produced? That is obviously taking it to the extreem, but we are headed in that sort of direction. I have no problem with those who just want to collect/run famous and flashy locos, but my modeling interest is about capturing a specific realistic time, place, and image. I have little interest in spending money outside that goal. I do not and will not buy stuff just because they make it. I have never owned a Big Boy or an SD70, both are completely outside my interests. I know a great many modelers just like myself in this regard. But I have 135 locomotives, 1000 freight cars, 200 passenger cars, and would buy more if the right items are produced. And not just one. If someone made a B&O B18 10 wheeler that was DCC ready for $200, I would buy 3 or 4, maybe more. Look at my partial loco list in my earlier post, I am creating a realistic working roster, not a museum collection........ Sheldon
https://www.brasstrains.com/BrassGuide/PDG/List/Baltimore-Ohio-4-6-0/d411.20
You can set up email alerts if they come in stock. The price ranges shown when logged in are $200-350.
To be fair, most of the F units are toy grade (Sorry Athearn, your Globe F units are no longer modeler's grade now that 67 years have passed)
...but I still can't get a nice set of "Final Four" era WP F-units for my HO layout.
Julian
Modeling Pre-WP merger UP (1974-81)
fieryturboTo be fair, most of the F units are toy grade (Sorry Athearn, your Globe F units are no longer modeler's grade now that 67 years have passed)
I always thought that the Genesis F units looked pretty good.
BMMECNYC fieryturbo To be fair, most of the F units are toy grade (Sorry Athearn, your Globe F units are no longer modeler's grade now that 67 years have passed) I always thought that the Genesis F units looked pretty good.
fieryturbo To be fair, most of the F units are toy grade (Sorry Athearn, your Globe F units are no longer modeler's grade now that 67 years have passed)
Turbo is refering the old "blue Box" Athearn F unit, now sold under the Roundhouse name, not the Genesis F unit.
ATLANTIC CENTRAL BMMECNYC fieryturbo To be fair, most of the F units are toy grade (Sorry Athearn, your Globe F units are no longer modeler's grade now that 67 years have passed) I always thought that the Genesis F units looked pretty good. Turbo is refering the old "blue Box" Athearn F unit, now sold under the Roundhouse name, not the Genesis F unit. Sheldon
Ah,
Wasnt planning on purchasing one of those anyway. But to say most are toy grade? If you ignore Bachmann and Roundhouse by default, that leaves Rapido, Genesis, and Intermountain. Not really toy grade...
BMMECNYC ATLANTIC CENTRAL BMMECNYC fieryturbo To be fair, most of the F units are toy grade (Sorry Athearn, your Globe F units are no longer modeler's grade now that 67 years have passed) I always thought that the Genesis F units looked pretty good. Turbo is refering the old "blue Box" Athearn F unit, now sold under the Roundhouse name, not the Genesis F unit. Sheldon Ah, Wasnt planning on purchasing one of those anyway. But to say most are toy grade? If you ignore Bachmann and Roundhouse by default, that leaves Rapido, Genesis, and Intermountain. Not really toy grade...
Agreed.
Of course a Blue Box Athearn F7 set with diesel dressup kits, GSB cab interiors, American Limited close coupling and diaphrams, and a replacement can motor makes a pretty nice model......even if its not "perfect".
And lets not forget Stewart/Bowser - another very nice version.
My favorites are Intermountain and Genesis as the best balance of detail and running quality.
emdmikethe wonders of Blackstone have chosen to pretty much ignoir anything outside of DRGW, where as I am a C&S and SPNG fan.
I'm pretty sure Blackstone's goal was to do D&RGW stuff first and then move on, of course that will probably take a long time but hopefully they will do something like C-16s and C-18s after the new Mikes so they can cover something other than just the D&RGW and RGS, with 16 and 18s they could pretty much do every major NG railroad in Colorado other than the C&S.
I'm sure as has been mentioned before, the manufacturers base their product line on public demand. As younger modelers get into the hobby, they model what they're familiar with; modern railroads with modern equipment. There are fewer modelers that grew up with steam. I wonder what the current demographics of modelers are.
Marlon
See pictures of the Clinton-Golden Valley RR
Medina1128 I'm sure as has been mentioned before, the manufacturers base their product line on public demand. As younger modelers get into the hobby, they model what they're familiar with; modern railroads with modern equipment. There are fewer modelers that grew up with steam. I wonder what the current demographics of modelers are.
The question is how does the public express to them this "demand"?
Has a manufacturer ever asked you what models you would like to see made?
Or, do the manufacturers simply say, "we think Big Boys will be popular, so lets make some", or, "the other guy made Big Boys and he did not go broke, maybe we should make some?". If they sell, they make more.
So there may well be a long list of stuff that would sell, that no one has made......
ATLANTIC CENTRALThe question is how does the public express to them this "demand"? Has a manufacturer ever asked you what models you would like to see made? Or, do the manufacturers simply say, "we think Big Boys will be popular, so lets make some", or, "the other guy made Big Boys and he did not go broke, maybe we should make some?". If they sell, they make more. So there may well be a long list of stuff that would sell, that no one has made......
How the public expresses the demand is a good question, and I have not seen an answer to this here, yet.
No, no one has asked me personally what I'd like to see made. And I'm not certain that this would even be a worthwhile task. I envision that for every 100 people surveyed there would almost be that many different answers. One of the now extinct model railroad publications used to have a rolling stock survey where people were asked which type model, tank car for example, they'd like to see and periodically those models would be manufactured.
In the case of the Big Boys, I don't know the logic of that manufacturing decision. I certainly don't want one. However, it seems that there are several vendors of them, and that there are multiple runs. And I don't think the produced models are languishing on the dealers shelves. So until that happens I think that some manufacturers will continue to produce them.
Concerning the long list of potential models, for example the Pacifics/mikes/consolidations/ten wheelers you would buy, well that's nice, but how many are you going to buy? You may buy two or three, but who is going to buy the other 997 from the lot of 1000 that is produced? And with steam engines the problem I see is that there are too many variations to come up with any standard model that would satisfy the masses. In the case of the Pacific there is the USRA light Pacific, the USRA heavy Pacific, plus whatever number of different prototype railroad Pacifics that might be out there. And obviously a generic Pacific will satisfy no one. (I believe that one vendor had a Paciific model that was roundly criticized here because it had something on it that "wasn't right".)
And this potential model thing is not limited to steam. I would like to see a GE C32 dash 8 model. If "they" produced these I would buy two. But again, because only Conrail originally had these, who is going to buy the other 998?
So, the only way any of these wish list models will get produced would be for someone to step up with their own money to fund the project and be responsible for the involved risk. All I see here is criticism of the existing vendors for not spending their money and assuming their risk to manufacture something that I maybe might want. Somehow I don't see that happening.
steemtrayn If we can have this, why not this:
If we can have this,
why not this:
Almost three years now, and still no BP20.
Dave
Just be glad you don't have to press "2" for English.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQ_ALEdDUB8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6hqFS1GZL4s
http://s73.photobucket.com/user/steemtrayn/media/MovingcoalontheDCM.mp4.html?sort=3&o=27
maxman ATLANTIC CENTRAL The question is how does the public express to them this "demand"? Has a manufacturer ever asked you what models you would like to see made? Or, do the manufacturers simply say, "we think Big Boys will be popular, so lets make some", or, "the other guy made Big Boys and he did not go broke, maybe we should make some?". If they sell, they make more. So there may well be a long list of stuff that would sell, that no one has made...... How the public expresses the demand is a good question, and I have not seen an answer to this here, yet. No, no one has asked me personally what I'd like to see made. And I'm not certain that this would even be a worthwhile task. I envision that for every 100 people surveyed there would almost be that many different answers. One of the now extinct model railroad publications used to have a rolling stock survey where people were asked which type model, tank car for example, they'd like to see and periodically those models would be manufactured. In the case of the Big Boys, I don't know the logic of that manufacturing decision. I certainly don't want one. However, it seems that there are several vendors of them, and that there are multiple runs. And I don't think the produced models are languishing on the dealers shelves. So until that happens I think that some manufacturers will continue to produce them. Concerning the long list of potential models, for example the Pacifics/mikes/consolidations/ten wheelers you would buy, well that's nice, but how many are you going to buy? You may buy two or three, but who is going to buy the other 997 from the lot of 1000 that is produced? And with steam engines the problem I see is that there are too many variations to come up with any standard model that would satisfy the masses. In the case of the Pacific there is the USRA light Pacific, the USRA heavy Pacific, plus whatever number of different prototype railroad Pacifics that might be out there. And obviously a generic Pacific will satisfy no one. (I believe that one vendor had a Paciific model that was roundly criticized here because it had something on it that "wasn't right".) And this potential model thing is not limited to steam. I would like to see a GE C32 dash 8 model. If "they" produced these I would buy two. But again, because only Conrail originally had these, who is going to buy the other 998? So, the only way any of these wish list models will get produced would be for someone to step up with their own money to fund the project and be responsible for the involved risk. All I see here is criticism of the existing vendors for not spending their money and assuming their risk to manufacture something that I maybe might want. Somehow I don't see that happening.
ATLANTIC CENTRAL The question is how does the public express to them this "demand"? Has a manufacturer ever asked you what models you would like to see made? Or, do the manufacturers simply say, "we think Big Boys will be popular, so lets make some", or, "the other guy made Big Boys and he did not go broke, maybe we should make some?". If they sell, they make more. So there may well be a long list of stuff that would sell, that no one has made......
Agreed to a large degree, but a few points.
There is no reasonably accurate, reasonably well detailed plastic/diecast USRA Heavy Pacific on the market. The Generic BLI model is a USRA Light running gear, 73" drivers, outfitted with a USRA Heavy Mikado boiler - close but no cigar. The USRA Heavy had 79/80" drivers. By making just a few additional parts, BLI could make their Pacifics and Mikados much more accurate. Bachmann has done this with lots of their locos, including their new USRA Mike and Pacific.
As for asking me personally how many of some of those locos I would buy, well, if we base it on my existing fleet, it might be more than 2-3.
Spectrum USRA Heavy Mountains - 9 units
Spectrum Baldwin 2-8-0's - 8 units
Spectrum USRA 2-6-6-2's - 5 units
Bachmann LIMA 2-8-4's - 5 units
BLI USRA Heavy 2-8-2's - 2 units
Spectrum USRA Light 2-10-2's - 3 units
various brands USRA light 4-6-2's - 4 units
BLI N&W 2-6-6-4 - 2 units
Proto 2-8-8-2 - 2 units
etc, etc.
Some of these I plan to aquire a few more of.........
So I ask this question, how many people have nine Big Boys.........
The willingness of modelers like me to buy multiple copies to get that fleet feel has to at least partly make up for "famous loco collecting".
Look at my roster list above, who invested the least in tooling and sold me the most locos? The company that made more "ordinary" prototypes............
As a modeler who has moved from HO to N, after reading this thread I believe this speaks for all N modelers.
Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr! (and Sob!)
LensCapOn As a modeler who has moved from HO to N, after reading this thread I believe this speaks for all N modelers. Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr! (and Sob!)
Ken G Price My N-Scale Layout
Digitrax Super Empire Builder Radio System. South Valley Texas Railroad. SVTRR
N-Scale out west. 1996-1998 or so! UP, SP, Missouri Pacific, C&NW.