Which is the better upgrade?

[wl_keller]

I am building my first layout and I am working on a budget so I only have a couple of Model Power RS-11 locomotives and the power supply that came with a train set.

When I make my next purchase, what is more important for smooth slow speed operation. A new locomotive or a new power supply?

I've read the claims by MRC and their power supplies, but would it really make a difference with the locomotives that I have? Or if I bought a new Atlas or some other named locomotive, would it perform properly with the power supply that I have.

I have tested the power supply with a voltmetet and I have verivied that it isn't very smooth when starting from 0 volts. It jumps quickly to about 4.5 - 6 volts and it makes the loco's lurch forward and if I try to get them to run slower, on most cases it causes them to stall.

In fact, it makes uncoupling and coupling cars almost impossible without stalling or backing into the cars too fast and causing them to derail.

Soooo, any suggestions? What should I buy first a loco or a power supply?

[joecool1212]

I would suggest a new locomotive first. The new loco will run better with the old power supply because all quality locos have flywheels in them and it will allow some coasting after the power is off. Also if you did'nt check the power supply with a load on it you will find the the starting voltage will be lower because of the load the motor puts on it. I would suggest Atlas, Kato, Athearn genisis Stewart Hobbies, or Broadway limited imports. All are fairly expensive compared to lesser brands but their consistency and smoothness are night and day difference. Good luck Joe A.

[CP5415]

As Joe stated, buy a locomotive first.
Since you are on a budget, I'd suggest, if you can find one, an Athearn Blue Box locomotive.
They're not as quiet or as detailed as the ones Joe's stated, but they're not as expensive either.
For the money, they're a great runner, even at slow speeds
I have 35 of these locomotives rangeing from a GP9 to an AC4400 & have not been disappointed yet.
If you can't find one of these, a Proto 1000 locomotive would be my next suggestion.

I hope this has helped

Gordon

[DSchmitt]

I disagree. Even a good loco needs a good power supply , and unless the loco you have is complete junk, a good power supply will improve its operation. One of the first things you should replace is the cheap train set power supply. As long as it works, you can keep it around to power lights and other accessories.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by CP5415
[b
If you can't find one of these, a Proto 1000 locomotive would be my next suggestion.

I hope this has helped

Gordon

I own four A-B sets of the P1K , F3(that's eight powered units) thru Trainworld at $20. bucks for each unit, $40 per set.. Doesn't get much cheaper and they are good runners.

For power packs go to http://www.modelrec.com click on the Icon pack, then tech 4.
Don't let the MSP alarm you. You can also get these at a discount .

The higher the Volt Amp rating(VA) listed on the pack, the greater the capacity to deliver.

I would go with the pack first. It in itself will improve current loco operations.

My discount nickel's worth.
W E L C O M E A B O A R D.

[AntonioFP45]

Hello WL_Keller and a hearty WELCOME ABOARD!

Actually, in my humble opinion, both the loco and the powerpack are the issue. I have a group of Athearn Blue Box locomotives, but for the price I would suggest looking into geting a Proto 1000 or Proto 2000 locomotive. They draw low current and run reasonably quiet! My Proto 2000 locos can crawl after I crack the throttle just a little.

For powerpacks MRC Tech series are the way to go. Get one that has a momentum switch. You will really enjoy some low speed control!

[wl_keller]

I've seen the momentum switch but I don't know exactly what it does.

Also, my track plan is designed to run two short trains at the same time. Eventually I will need two power supplies. Should I buy a dual power supply or spend a little more and buy one power supply and another later on?

The locomotives that I have are in very good shape. I bought them from an estate sale and they were still in their original packages along with some other accessaries. It even still had the original packing list on the box. It was something to just get me started into the hobby and to see if I really wanted to progress in the hobby.

Since then it has snowballed and I've started building a layout. Since my space is limited right now, I wanted to do quite a bit of switching and that's when the low speed problems came into play.

I thought about trying to regear the locos to run slower at higher voltages, but I haven't found any information on these particular trains. I do want to buy some better equipment but I have to do it a little at a time. Atlas and Kato have some great looking models!

It doesn't take long for costs to add up. I've already spent $180.00 on turn outs and my layout is only 4x6! My hat is off to all you guys who have basement sized layouts!

Thanks for all the advice guys!

[dharmon]

If I were in you position and starting out, I'd upgrade my locos and just get a couple, inexpensive Athearn blue boxes or P1K/ P2Ks. Bargains can be found on these if you shop around. The reason I say this, is the next upgrade you should do is go to DCC before you go much further. The market is shifting more and more to DCC support, and if you do it now at the beginning, you are not faced with it later like some of us who were DC for a long time. The Athearns or Protos will serve you well on DC until you jump and can be easily and rather inexpensively converted later. One of the basic DCC systems such as an MRC can be had for around $150 shopping around and bare bones decoders for $15, instead of buying a new DC power pack for $50-60. In the long run I think you might end up happier and with a better overall system with greater expansion potential, even if it has few locos on it for the short term.

My 2 cents

Dan

[wl_keller]

I hadn't really thought about that. My layout was so small that I hadn't even considered DCC. But when you consider the cost of buying two power supplies to run DC the DCC system is VERY appealing.

Also, I spent some time looking at the Athearn locos that you guys were talking about and I never knew they were so affordable. I could buy a GP38-2 and an SW1500 for less than $100.

Now if you guys could just explain all of this the my wife as easily as you explained it to me.......

[Don Gibson]

The Better engine, the smoother it will start up and run - with ANY power pak.

If you do switching, a Proto 2000 GP-9 will oudo Most Athearn's .

The best Athearn runnert to date is their RTR CF-7 which was originally a passenger road diesel rebuilt by the Santa Fe and re-geared for switching and Industrial work. BOTH of these cost less than $99. CF-7' should sell at $69 - $79 each..

QUOTE: I have tested the power supply with a voltmetet and I have verivied that it isn't very smooth when starting from 0 volts. It jumps quickly to about 4.5 - 6 volts and it makes the loco's lurch forward and if I try to get them to run slower, on most cases it causes them to stall.

I've got news for you. That's indicative of friction in the engine - until 5v-6v overcomes the friction. The term 'Jack Rabbit' starts and stops' fit's.

Re: Momentum - Worthless on anything but a long layout
Dual VS. 2 single supplies - are you going to run both at the same time - go Dual.
2 people running at the same time - like you and your wife - go separates.
Important:: the Volt Ampere rating. For 2 trains 24 VA - 30VA.. More is better.

You may find things that run as good, but not better. Most beginner's buy on price, not running ability, but these two are real winner's in the mid-low end of pricing.

Re: Power Paks. All SS unit's today use 'nudging' circuits to overcome residual friction in cheap engines. (95% Athearn engines take 6 volts to get started without them). The CF-7 is not one of these.

Until you have a really good engine, and a good DC power supply ,you won't know what you are missing. Whoever said "Ignorance is bliss" was right.

signed: Alfred E. Nuemann.

[dharmon]

QUOTE: Originally posted by wl_keller

I hadn't really thought about that. My layout was so small that I hadn't even considered DCC. But when you consider the cost of buying two power supplies to run DC the DCC system is VERY appealing.

Also, I spent some time looking at the Athearn locos that you guys were talking about and I never knew they were so affordable. I could buy a GP38-2 and an SW1500 for less than $100.

Now if you guys could just explain all of this the my wife as easily as you explained it to me.......

IMHO, if you start with a simple DCC system, that has room for some growth like a MRC Prodigy or Digitrax Zephryr, you really aren't going to be out much more than the cost of two good power power packs....they are relatively easy to set up and use, and basic DCC wiring can be alot simpler than blocks, that you will move into later. With DCC you don't have to worry as about "momentum" and pulse, etc...and such. For 150 -170 or so you can have a DCC system, and for less than 100 you can get a decoder equipped Atlas loco to start. You don't even have to put in your first decoder. As it grows and you feel more comfortable, P2Ks/Athearns/Atlas whatever you like and drop a decoder in them, and your off. I think in the long run, you will get more enjoyment. Plus if you ever decide to get a sound equipped loco, the DCC is already in place to my her sing...

[nfmisso]

The MP RS11 that you have are not bad locomotives. They have eight wheel drive, but check on the electrical pickup. Some had eight wheel electrical pickup, some only four wheel. It is not too difficult to take some phosphor bronze wire and make additional pickups.

Being in storage for so long, the motor bearings probably need a tiny drop of oil (LaBelle or similar plastic compatible hobby oil), and the trucks should be torn down, cleaned with 70% IsoPropyl Alcohol, then re-assembled, using a little plastic compatible hobby grease.

Then the locomotives should be run in, 30 minutes, 1/2 throttle in each direction. If you are just running around a loop, stop every 15 minutes; pick up a turn the locomotive around.

That should improve the operating characteristics of your locomotives.

The power pack is in much need of improvement. I would suggest jumping directly to the new Bachmann EZ Command DCC, which is made by Lenz, the inventor of DCC. It can be had for much less than $100.

It is very easy to install a DCC decoder in a MP RS11, the motor is isolated already, one of the benifits of a plastic chassis.

Years ago, I had three MP RS11 (paid $4.99 each [:D]) They ran pretty well after improving the electrical pickup, as well as any Athearn. Their operation can be further improved by adding flywheels to the motor.