I'm in the process of collecting various tools for use on the trains for lighting, modifying, detailing, etc.
I'm looking for a set of the tap, drill bit and tap wrench to tap holes for 2-56 screws..as 2-56 screws are so common for coupler and wheel set mounting..
Anyone have any experience tapping holes? Just looking for some recommendations for mfg's that might have the 3 items in a set? I want to buy something that isn't junk.
thanks
Micro Mark has the tap wrench as well as the tap and drill bits, bit the tap wrench is sold separately from the tap and drill bits. Micro Mark makes high quality taps, drill bits and tap wrench.
Rich
Alton Junction
Kadee offers a 2-56 tap, #50 tap drill and #43 clearance drill.This is set #246
http://kadee.com/htmbord/page246.htm
I use a General Tools pin vise. A tap handle is not nec most work is styrene, For diecast, drill w/ dremel and tap slowly w/ the pin vise.
I would also suggest that you purchase a 2-56 bottoming tap. This is useful where coupler/ truck screws have limited depth (flats or bulkheads) and a few no. of threads into the frame/ floor of car.
Kadee Delrin 2-56 screws also come in handy. They are easily cut/ trimmed to any size for an exact and proper fit. http://kadee.com/htmbord/page256.htm
Modeling B&O- Chessie Bob K. www.ssmrc.org
For many years I have had 00-90, 0-80, 1-72- and 2-56 tap sets which took care of all my model train needs.
The 00-90 were great for attaching Kadee coupler springs fo wipers to trucks for added pickup.
The bottoming taps are also a good idea.
The nylon screws are a good idea if you ever need to isolate a motor that has the brushes electrically connected to each motor frame half.
Get the Aluminum Storage Case with 20 Containers for screws, nuts, washers.
If you ever fall over in public, pick yourself up and say “sorry it’s been a while since I inhabited a body.” And just walk away.
Penn,
You might want to check Micro-Mark. They generally have decent tools. The other option is to go to a production tool store in your town. If you want real quality, look for Starrett for your tap wrench. I generally like the T-handles for hand tapping because they fit in the palm of my hand and gives me better control and "feel" for what I'm tapping into:
For smallish taps like 2-56 and <, look for a smaller T-handle.
For what you're tapping, Penn, your tap doesn't have to be a top quality one. What you do want is a tapering tap that has gradually deeper and deeper cutting teeth. Mostly what you'll be tapping into is plastic and zinc-metal (chassis). A standard tap should do you just fine. For drilling, I would get a good quality coated (e.g. titanium nitride or TiN) drill bit. They cost a little bit more but will last longer for you.
When tapping, always keep the tap perpendicular to the surface you are tapping into. What you don't want to do is to come in at a angle because you'll stress the tap and it will be more likely to snap off.
[Side comment: Extracting a broken tap from a hole isn't the end of the world. It is possible to remove with an tap extraction tool. However, you want to avoid doing that. Rest assured, Penn, that what you'll be tapping into is plastic and fairly soft metal. With those materials and the depths you'll be tapping, you'd really have to work at it to snap a tap.]
Use only slight pressure and allow the tap to cut into the material you are tapping. For plastic and soft metals, rotate the T-handle CW 1/8 to a 1/4 turn at a time then back off the same amount CCW. Before cutting into the material further, rotate the T-handle back-and-forth CW then CCW. This will break up any chips that could clog the tap as it's cutting and, thereby, stress it and break it.
Again, let the tap do the cutting. You don't need to brute force it. When you feel the tap start to bit into the material and you feel some resistance, back off, rotate the tap back-and-forth in the hole a couple of times and continue tapping in the same manner.
Lastly, Penn, you really won't need any coolants or lubricants (i.e. tapping oils) for what you'll be tapping. Given the material and depths, the tap is much harder than either the plastic or zinc-metal.
Hope that helps...
Tom
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
bogp40 I use a General Tools pin vise. A tap handle is not nec most work is styrene, For diecast, drill w/ dremel and tap slowly w/ the pin vise.
I respectfully disagree, Bob. While a pin vise might work for some circumstance, a small T-handle will give you much better control and "feel" for cutting into either styrene or diecast (zinc) metal.
Thanks Bob,
The die cast metal is what I failed to mention in my post and that is exactly what I was interested in. (A bit early for me) Tapping the styrene is no problem. I like the Dremel idea for the die cast. I'm using 2-56 screws from Radio Shack as they are cheap and convenient to get. They are like machine screws. Flat at the tip so would the tap set from Kadee you mention be the right taps? I assume they would as Kadee screws are about the same as the ones I'm using I believe.
Does the drill bit fit directly in the Dremel? Or do I need the special attachment fitted in there?
Sorry for these dumb questions..I could probably figure it out myself but....appreciate your humoring me. I just want to get the right thing the first time if possible. And as ordering this off the Internet and waiting a few days and then discovering I need something else to proceed..well I'm sure you know.
Thx and all the best
Paul
PennStation Does the drill bit fit directly in the Dremel? Or do I need the special attachment fitted in there?
With every Dremel set that I've seen, they have different sized collets (the part of the Dremel that holds the bits or attachments) to handle different sized bits. Most of the Dremel tools all fit the standard collet.
Marlon
See pictures of the Clinton-Golden Valley RR
PennStation Thanks Bob,
Hmmm, so much for the rest of us - - - LOL
Rich et. al
PennStation I'm using 2-56 screws from Radio Shack as they are cheap and convenient to get. They are like machine screws. Flat at the tip so would the tap set from Kadee you mention be the right taps? I assume they would as Kadee screws are about the same as the ones I'm using I believe.
I'm using 2-56 screws from Radio Shack as they are cheap and convenient to get. They are like machine screws. Flat at the tip so would the tap set from Kadee you mention be the right taps? I assume they would as Kadee screws are about the same as the ones I'm using I believe.
Paul,
They could be chassis or tapping screws (NOT the same as machineing screws), which means that they would have much coarser threads and be tapered. The "56" in 2-56 means that that is how many threads there are per inch. What you want is machineing screws for taps.
If the Radio Shack screws aren't true 2-56 machineing screws, Micro-Mark has them or check you local LHS for the Kadee or Walthers packets. I get 2-56 screws at my local Ace Hardware store because one of the workers is a MRRer.
Thanks for your excellent tutorial..previous post. And the education on the variety of screws. I honestly don't know what the Radio Shack screws are. Ill verify that. I have an Ace close by so ill check them out and see if they carry the correct version. South Florida is pitiful as far as Hobby Shops that carry RR related items. There is one but I'm not a fan..so the Web is my main supplier.
I've been shopping around on the Internet for a good tap wrench...I did look at the stuff Kadee has. Came across Starrett which I believe is top of the line and probably overkill for my applications, amongst others. But from what you and some of the other folks have said it seems a moderately well made tap wrench will suffice. Taps, and drill bits as well..Assumably Kadees products are reasonable. So if I end up going with the Kadee Ill also invest in a supply of their screws...which just seem ridiculously overpriced as compared to other suppliers....
Well, for the moment I have more than enough information to get into trouble.
thanks again for your time and thorough explanations. Much appreciated.
Got it and thanks
Thanks and appreciate all the input.
Best
Paul at Penn Station
V8Vega When tapping metal use oil on the tap, it really helps. There is special oil for this but just use automotive oil the thicker the better,
When tapping metal use oil on the tap, it really helps. There is special oil for this but just use automotive oil the thicker the better,
V8,
Generally speaking, when cutting metals, tap fluid or oil is best for keeping the tap cool and debris from clogging the cutting teeth of the tap. However, when cutting zinc, a good sharp tap will pretty much cut through it like butter. So, oil is superfluous in that particular situation and not really necessary. If the tap is getting dull, it's just better to replace the tap than chance it - even with oil.
I recently tapped threads in a 3/8" long thru-hole of a Bowser VO-660 chassis. I hardly needed to back off the tap at all before I was all the way through.
I've tapped a lot of holes in my life, usually on a paying job. I strongly recommend using a lubricant when tapping zinc alloys. Some, at least, tend to jam up unlubricated taps. Pretty much any old oil will do. This, unfortunately, adds the irritating step of de-greasing afterwards. but dealing with a broken tap is, how you say it?, a total bummer.
Before you try tapping metal, do some holes in plastic for practice--to get a feel for it.
Bought bottoming taps are a nice thing, but you can make your own from a regular tap by using a Dremel grinder. This would be my second choice, but I've done it. Also, once or twice, I needed the threads to go even deeper in the hole than the bottoming tap would allow. Again, you can modify a tap with a grinder.
Ed
7j43k I've tapped a lot of holes in my life, usually on a paying job. I strongly recommend using a lubricant when tapping zinc alloys. Some, at least, tend to jam up unlubricated taps. Pretty much any old oil will do. This, unfortunately, adds the irritating step of de-greasing afterwards. but dealing with a broken tap is, how you say it?, a total bummer. Before you try tapping metal, do some holes in plastic for practice--to get a feel for it. Bought bottoming taps are a nice thing, but you can make your own from a regular tap by using a Dremel grinder. This would be my second choice, but I've done it. Also, once or twice, I needed the threads to go even deeper in the hole than the bottoming tap would allow. Again, you can modify a tap with a grinder. Ed
Ed, great idea to modify a standard tap to bottom out. This would thread all the way better than the bottoming tap. Thanks
1. Radio Shack 2/56 screws are machine screws (not "machining").. I use them anytime I'm out of Walthers, Detail Associates, Micromark or Athearn screws - all cheaper than Kadee screws, (never buy them).
2. I use Wahl's Clpper Oil for lubrication when drilling zink, zamack and any soft white metals, many of which like to grab the bit when they get hot. Wahl's is meant for sharpening and cooling clipper blades and works very well for drilling, tapping and grinding/milling. It's not "greasy" and will wash off with soap and watter. Many hobby shops carry it or your local barber shop will also carry it, some hardware stores have it too.
Jay
C-415 Build: https://imageshack.com/a/tShC/1
Other builds: https://imageshack.com/my/albums
modelmaker51 1. Radio Shack 2/56 screws are machine screws (not "machining")...
1. Radio Shack 2/56 screws are machine screws (not "machining")...
Thanks, Jay. I had machining on the brain. LOL!
Jay Thx for clearing up the Radio Shack screw mystery. I have a load of them so glad they fit the bill.
and as it happens I also have some small bottle of Wahl oil for a beard trimmer I've never used...
Best rgds
Actually, if you chuck a drill bit or tap into a lathe instead of a drill, you would probably call it machining... lol.
As Wahl oil is electrically conductive, it is also a good lube for car and loco wheels.
modelmaker51 Actually, if you chuck a drill bit or tap into a lathe instead of a drill, you would probably call it machining... lol.
Uhhhh...That's what I must have meant, Jay.
tstage bogp40 I use a General Tools pin vise. A tap handle is not nec most work is styrene, For diecast, drill w/ dremel and tap slowly w/ the pin vise. I respectfully disagree, Bob. While a pin vise might work for some circumstance, a small T-handle will give you much better control and "feel" for cutting into either styrene or diecast (zinc) metal. Tom
I guess I disagree with you, Tom. I feel my Pin Vise is the best way to tap threads with taps 4-40 and smaller. I feel what the tap is doing extremely well with my Pin Vise and you are far less likely to put an asymmetrical load on tap which will easily break the tap. The Pin Vise keeps all the torsional force close to the center-line of the tap and if you haven't wrenched the chuck down to hard on the tap, allows the tap to slip if it start binding, also saving from breaking the tap. I use a light oil when tapping any metal, 3 in 1, Marvels etc.
Mark
NP 2626 "Northern Pacific, really terrific"
Northern Pacific Railway Historical Association: http://www.nprha.org/
We're allowed to disagree, Mark. For styrene, I could be persuaded to use a pin vise. However, that would might depend on the thickness of the material. For any metal tapping, a T-handle would still be my preference.
I'm glad the pin vise works for you for both...
tstage We're allowed to disagree, Mark. For styrene, I could be persuaded to use a pin vise. However, that would might depend on the thickness of the material. For any metal tapping, a T-handle would still be my preference. I'm glad the pin vise works for you for both... Tom
We certainly are allowed to disagree. My opinion is based on 33 years in the machine trades and 22 years as a tool & die maker. This is a pretty good base for my opinion. Still that doesn't mean that a tap handle isn't a better way for you to handle tapping with small taps, only that I have a valad opinion, also. There are many ways to skin a cat!
Mark,
Well, I can VERY much respect all those years of experience you have in machining. My experience is nowhere near that; nor did I do it on a day-in and day-out basis. My metal experience is pretty much limited to iron, aluminums, 304 & 316 SS, and titanium - both manual milling and CNC.
I may have to try tapping with a pin vise on a scrap piece of zinc sometime. And, should our paths ever cross, Mark, I would enjoy sitting down and talking "shop" with you in person with your experiences and background.
I'll butt right in here and say that I use a pin vise for smaller taps in "lighter" materials. It's a little easier (for me) to keep aligned when I'm holding everything in my hands, as happens a lot with small pieces.
As the tap size goes up and/or the material becomes fiercer, I find that the tap and collet will start to spin in the pin vise--ain't gonna work--time for a T-handle. By then, it often is the case that I'm using a vise and can use both hands to hold and guide the T-handle.
Couldn't agree with you more on using the pin vise. Like the feel I get from how the tap is working the metal. I've used the same General Tool 2-56 tap for almost a year. I've done over 60 MTH O scale cars and locos, cutting perfect threads in both plastic and die cast. The cutting edges on the flutes (2) are still sharp. Lubrication make's all the difference.
I guess I don't use any lubrication when cutting threads in plastic. Your taps should give long service if cared for and used with a lubricant in metals. Because these taps are so small, it is difficult to know when they are getting dull and all it takes is one broken tap in a part, to make you cuss the day you were born. Therefore, replacement is the best option, depending upon usage and materials used on. Because taps are in the process of cutting threads when they break, they are difficult to remove and it seems they always break off in the hole. If your lucky and some of the tap is extending from the hole, you maybe "In like Flynn"! However, line the jaws of your needle nose with wood or plastic as hard metal will likely continue the tap breaking process. If no tap sticks out from the hole, you can attempt to remove the tap by picking at it with a needle or common pin, trying to get the tap to rotate out of the hole. If the tap is pretty much locked in there your only real alternative is to see if you can glue the part you wanted held with a screw in position; or, move the tapped hole to a new location. Taps are hardened so you'll likely break a drill off attempting to drill the tap out and if you don't break the drill, you will most certainly bollix up the cutting edges of the drill!
Remember the adage: "Patience is a virtue"!