I am new to the forum. I have two brass locomotives that will not run. One is a DMIR 2-8-2, the other is a DMIR 2-8-8-4 Yellowstone. I wondered if anyone knows of any books available on repairing brass locomotives.
Missabemodeler - Welcome to trains.com!
Darren (BLHS & CRRM Lifetime Member)
Delaware and Hudson Virtual Museum (DHVM), Railroad Adventures (RRAdventures)
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Missabe...
Try this. Put the following url into your browser. This is Mark Schutzer's page and it is super. I've seen him in clinics on the west coast about servicing old brass locos.
http://schutzer.net/Brass_Clinics/RebuildingBrass2006std.pdf
Allow me to add a few things......... If your loco has been sitting for a LONG time it may just be stuck it's own goo. Remove the superstructure and attempt to turn the motor manually. It may be stuck enough that applying current to it cannot move it. Also check for dirty wheels. It may be as simple and nothing is getting to the motor.
Resist dumping a ton of oil on it. It may need dis-assembly and cleaning and re-oiling. If you get brave and open it up............. these aren't that tough to get into......... if it resists turning in one direction, don't force it, try the other direction. It may be bound up on its side rods and linkages. Seldom are they bound up in both directions. These locos need only a microscopic amount of oil to keep them going. If the loco has never been run it is highly possible that is dried assembly grease from the manufacturer. That will require a major cleaning.
see ya
Bob
Welcome!
Be sure to check for loose and broken wires, short circuits, and anything else that could interfere with good electrical and mechanical operation. Also make sure the wheels are clean, because oxidation built up over years can completely stop electrical contact.
If your brass steam engines have the old open frame style motors, you may also want to replace the original magnets with neodymium. It's cheaper than replacing the motor, usually not too difficult, and can improve performance a LOT. I like to order my magnets from K&J Magnetics.
Hope this helps!
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As far as I know there is no real book that will take you step by step into repairing your locos. Brass locomotives are semi custom builds where no two will be the same. I mean your Yellowstone will be very different inside compared to your 2-8-2. This being said they are the simplest of mechanisms to work on and diagnose. Depending on when they were made and who was the builder more than likely you will find an open frame motor, some type of coupling either a rubber or plastic hose and a small gear box tied to one axle. The articulated will either have one or two motors. The single motor will have drive shafts and or auxiliary gear boxes. The simplest drive systems are just a motor and worm meshed to an worm gear on an axle. If your handy with a screw driver, soldering iron and multimeter you can diagnose and repair with little trouble. If they are made within the last decade they may contain a can motor if your lucky. Power is picked up from one rail on one side of the loco and the other rail from the tender. Some locos will have a wire that attaches to the tender frame while most will rely on the draw bar for current. Make sure the tender pin is clean and free of paint and the draw bar has either one or two contact wires that touch the pin. Take pictures before and during disassemble as you go and put the screws in the holes they came out of as you take it apart so they don't get lost or put in the wrong place.
Here are a couple of mine.
Brass Overland B6 with a can motor.
http://s1081.photobucket.com/albums/j348/locoi1sa/Brass%20B6/
Brass MB Austin 2-6-0 with a supped up open frame motor.
http://s1081.photobucket.com/albums/j348/locoi1sa/F3c%202-6-0/
Pete
I pray every day I break even, Cause I can really use the money!
I started with nothing and still have most of it left!
Missabemodler, First to the site!
Book, you don't need no stinking book! You have this site!
First Darth Santa Fe skill's are very good at making things work! Braden is one of the best!
Yellowstone's you say, hum anyone besides me thinking of T White? Tom has a small fleet of Brass Yellowstone's. Tom is a big Brass Man, has more than the Yellowstone's.
If you change your tile to Repair Brass Yellowstone's I bet he be on the topic quick!
Cuda Ken
I hate Rust
missabemodeler:
Just caught this thread--courtesy of my buddy Cuda Ken--and have a question. Do you know the make of your M3/4 Yellowstone? Reason I ask is that the loco has been imported by several brass manufacturers--the earliest were Akanes from the 1960's, and then both PFM and Division Point have imported models of them, and all are with different levels of detail and drive mechanisms.
I have 3 of the older Akane M3/4's, dating from about 1964, and they are extremely easy to get into and repair, as they have perhaps the simplest of all the drive mechanisms. There are 4 screws to lift the superstructure from the chassis--two under the cab and two right above the second set of cylinders. The boiler and cab lifts right off and the mechanism is very simply connected to the open frame motor. The chances are that if they're not running, the grease on the worm gears has solidified. I had this with one that I acquired a couple of years ago, and a toothbrush and warm soapy water cleaned the gears up just fine. Then I used Labelle gear grease--VERY sparingly--on the gears, a little Labelle #8 thin oil on the bearings, drive rods and eccentric gears and the loco fired up without a problem. One thing I would do is replacing the tubing between the first and second set of drivers with NWSL Universals. The tubing is extremely hard on the motor when the loco is rounding curves.
If you're still getting no power after cleaning the gears, check to see that the lead from the drawbar is connected to the motor, or check to see that the wire hasn't become loose from the drawbar itself. The drawbar has a thin, sturdy wire down the length that rubs against the tender pin when the loco and tender are connected. Sometimes on older brass, the solder has become loose and the wire loses its tension, resulting in intermittent pickup between loco and tender. Re-soldering the wire is pretty simple.
Also, wheel cleaning is ESSENTIAL for good brass running. I clean my loco and tender wheels with a Q-tip and rubbing alcohol. Turn the locomotive upside down in a cradle, connect it to your power-pack, turn it on and run the alcohol-soaked Q-tip along the wheel treads until bright and shiny.
This is assuming that your Yellowstone is an Akane, of course (they seem to show up most frequently of all the Yellowstone models and are still probably the most affordable of all brass Yellowstones). However, whichever make you have, cleaning the gears, checking the motor and drawbar leads for loose wiring is pretty essential. Brass is very forgiving to work with and most brass locos are extremely easy to repair once you've spotted the problem.
One thing I will tell you--a brass loco is like its prototypical steam counterpart, it needs fairly frequent tinkering and shopping in order to run at its best. It's not like a contemporary plastic diesel where you can put it on the tracks and let it run for days, LOL! Brass takes a lot of TLC sometimes, but for me, the results are worth it. There's something very sturdy about brass steam--and for the most part, you don't need traction tires to pull fairly prototypical loads with them--a well-balanced, well-weighted brass loco will pull almost as many cars as it's actual prototype. Which means that once you get that brass Yellowstone of yours running smoothly, it will probably pull the walls off the room!
Tom
Tom View my layout photos! http://s299.photobucket.com/albums/mm310/TWhite-014/Rio%20Grande%20Yuba%20River%20Sub One can NEVER have too many Articulateds!
Darth Santa Fe
Missabemodeler
Thanks a lot for the information, especially the magnets. Both locomotives are 40 years old+. I'm actually feeling confident enough to start work on them. I appreciate all the help I got from the people who answered my request. Hopefully some day I will be experienced enough to be able to help another modeler.
locoi1sa
Thank you very much for the information, especially taking photos. I was going to draw pictures. I'm feeling pretty confident that I'll be able to get both locomotives operating properly. I got a lots of information from you and other modelers. It is greatly appreciated.
Jim
Simple testing to make sure all the electricals are in order -- does the drawbar properly convey electricity from tender pickup to motor for example, and are all the pickup wheels in both the locomotive and tender on the correct sides? Often guys get this wrong when reassembling an engine, intend to address the problem some day but now the engine has become a project and might well be sold off.
Assuming the elecrical stuff is all in order, two quick things I do when confronted with a steam locomotive that just does not run at all.
I remove the motor and see if the engine can be handpushed on the track. Sometimes the combination of side rods and valve gear and bearings just gets out of whack and tightens up. it is not uncommon for motors to burn out under those circumstances. But sometimes just removing the binding can make the engine run again (although if it happened once it may well happen again and there is presumably some cause).
With the motor removed and hooked up to the old reliable MRC Ampack I test it to see if it even turns. But just turning is not enough -- if the magnets are weakened the thing will turn but has minimal power.
Those are all things I would characterize as unskilled tinkering. Everything beyond those simple steps requires skilled tinkering and the advice given in prior postings is involved.
Dave Nelson
Great advice here. Recently purchased an Akane AC-9 from ebay. When it arrived it would not run even though the sender assured me it had been recently tested. On the off chance it was a loose wire or gummed up mechanisms I decided to open it up. A bit nervous as I'd never worked on a brass locomotive and had a mental pictured parts everywhere. The reference to the four screws was very helpful. Got the body off and was able to get the drive train running with a bit of cleaning and encouragement to free up the movement. Thanks for the insight on Akane. Next step is to equip it with new motor and DCC.
WillH