I Need Roster Numbering Help!!!!

[Morpar]

I am in the process of trying to get ready for custom decals for my equipment, and this brings up the necessity of numbering all that stuff. Now I wouldn't say that I am the most prototypical modeler, but I do want my work to at least be believable. To that end, any suggestions on how to devise a numbering scheme for cars and locos? I have been looking at various rosters (NS, UP, Conrail, NKP) and can't find any rhyme or reason to how locos are (were) numbered. I considered basing my system off of the Utah Belt system, (horsepower and # of axles) but that still leaves problems. How does a person decide, for example, how many SD60's this road has? And what about when there are 3 or 4 types of locos with the same horsepower and axles? (U30-C, C-630, SD40, C40-8, etc.) Oh, and lets not leave out when the numbers would start running into each other because of too many locomotives. For example, UP supposedly has about 1,250 SD70M units and about 800 SD40-2's! And this doesn't even get into the issues with cars! I am completely buried with the thought of a numbering system for 150+ coal hoppers and gondolas that could be real. Any and all suggestions are needed, as I am also thinking along the lines of different eras too! I have WAY too many interests for my own good!! I want to letter for late steam, 1st generation diesel, 2nd generation diesel, and present! Thanks for any help way in advance, and contributions for the hair replacement I will need after this will be welcome!

[arbfbe]

You might look at the BN roster developed right after the merger in 1970. It is pretty much horsepower based though there were some exceptions. EMD 6 axle units came in the 6000 series units, GE units were all in the 5000 series, and Alco units got the 4000 series with the middle digits horsepower specific. Switchers were three digit numbers. It served the BN for more than 20 years and a lot of different models. I think it was one of the most logical systems around until the ATSF guys came along and BNSF has been buying GE Dash 9s exclusively. I think you can find the roster somewhere on the internet or try to locate any of the BN annuals from Hol Wagner ro Bob Del Grosso up to the ANSF merger.

Freight cars present a different problem but you can use 6 digit numbers there so you might put flat cars in the 100,000 series, gondolas in the 200,000 series, boxcars in the 300,000 series, open hoppers in the 400,000 series, closed hoppers in the 500,000 series. That leaves you lots of series left over and lots of room to work in each series. In boxcars 40' cars could be 400,000 to 410,000, 50' cars would be 410,000 to 430,000, 60' cars 430,000 to 440,000 and so forth.

[Big_Boy_4005]

What an interesting question.

Maybe the place to start is figuring how many miles of track your railroad owns, not how much you are modeling. This will start to give you an idea how many engines should be on your roster. How much business does your railroad have, how many trains per day? What kind of terrain does it cover, mountains? What types of engines are you going to buy?

Railroads buy things in quantity. Cars are purchased hundreds at a time, and numbered consecutively. Locomotives tens at a time, also numbered consecutively. I'm not sure that there is any rhyme or reason as to which numbers are chosen for a particular lot of either.

Why not assign blocks of numbers to different types of engines in groups of 100. Start numbering them with the oldest ones having the lowest numbers. Say your railroad has some GP-9's (BNSF still does) start them at 1200. Of course there may not be many of those left, but originally they were 1200 - 1379. Your railroad had a bunch of GP-38-2's, they were 1600 - 1849. Maybe the switchers are done with 3 digit numbers.
Don't forget, if you plan to use DCC to not double up the last 2 digits between groups, so you don't have channel duplication. You want the last 2 digits to always be unique.

Cars, usually 6 digit numbers, same idea. That's what I would do if I was painting my own. Make a long list first, then start picking numbers to use. By the way, most decal sheets have their numbers in a somewhat random order so you can just cut a block instead of each individual digit. For cars 2 blocks of 3 digits, for engines 2 blocks of 2 digits.

Have fun.
[8D]

[GDRMCo]

My railroad which is the Queensland Belt uses a numbering system I call Legg Numerical Rostering. So here is my roster numbers, horsepower first, then series number, then type i.e. GP=12 SD=34, then division number, then numbers from 0-999. So a GP9=1891210, SD7=1973410. So the GP9 has 1800hp, series 9, its a Geep, division #1-8, 0-999. So the SD7 has 1900hp, series 7, its a SD, division #1-8, 0-999.

[Junctionfan]

You can find cars on line and pick up on number suquences. Go to Fallen Flags, Niagara Rails, Canadian Freightcar Gallery and Joe Shaw's Railroad page. The combination of rollingstock collection will allow you to get a good idea on what numbers of freight with UP logo there are. UP uses CAGY, MP, CNW,SP,WP, UPFE, SPFE, SSW, and a couple of others. They even use old rollingstock with different numbers. Look for ex Golden West Service, CE&I and Railbox box cars with SP reporting marks.

[Anonymous]

GOOD MORNING:

What works for me is: E-7's two digit; E-8's three digit; all steam (most of the locos) are wheel arraingment followed by when they were painted. IE: all of the Mikes are 282X; all of the Berks are 284X; all of the mountians are 482X. "X" is the order in which they were painted and added to the layout. So 2800 was the first Consolidated, and 2801 was the second. Box cars are in the 200 range; hoppers - 300; tanks - 400 and so on.


BIG_BOY_4005:
Length of my track has no bearing on the number of locos I need, it's strickly how much money do I have it my pocket when I walk into the hobby shop. If you've been around very long you know just what I mean.
The wife and I really enjoyed your wife's response to the KISS forum. I thought my wife was going to wet herself she laughed so hard. She has accused me of getting up in the middle of the night to go play trains, but it was just a trip to the bathroom.

Have blessed day and remember SANTA FE ALL THE WAY

Bob

[ClinchValleySD40]

Since I use four digit numbers and only have EMD and GE, I use horsepower as first two digits, second two are split 00 thru 49 for four axle, 50 thru 99 for six axle. That's for EMD, for GE's I just double the horsepower value. So an SD40 would be 3056 and a U30C would be 6056.

[ndbprr]

A really big railroad like the old PRR went from 1-9999 a couple of times during its existence and even they had trouble. The general rule of thumb in later years is to find a block of numbers equal to the number of engines being purchased and assign them to the engines. Subsequent engines may or may not be consecutive to the first block. They key on a model railroad is to make each class bigger than you intend to have. I agree with the previous post and have used the model designation as the starting number ie. GP35's are 35xx, E7's are 7xx or 7xxx if you want. IT breaks down a little with engines like PA's that have no numbers in them but don't consecutively number your engines unless you really want to. My GP35's were 3512 and 3520 which indicates there were at least 13 of them somewhere and probably 20

[dehusman]

You can number engines by class (which may or may not be the same as ).
You have to decide how many the railroad will have. How big is your railroad? You'll probably have about 1 locomotive for every 4-6 route miles so if your system is a 2000 mile long railroad, you'd have about 400 locomotives. That puts a cap on the number of numbers you need. Number the locomotives in blocks either by horsepower (GP38's 2000-2299, U23B's 2300-2350, B23-7's 2351-2399, SD40's 3000-3060, SD40-2 3061-3200, etc) or by sequence (RS1's 1000-1050, RS3's 1051-1100, GP7's 1101-1150, GP9's 1151-1175, C424's 1176-1200, GP38's 1201-1225, U30C 1226-1250, 2nd order of GP38's 1251-1300, etc) or by whatever sequence you want (switchers and 4 axles up to 3 digits, 4 digits for 6 axle locos, SD40's even numbers, SD40's with cab signals odd numbers, etc).

Railroads renumber locomotives relatively frequently and they mix and match numbers so there may be the same type of engine in several number series.

Dave H.

[Big_Boy_4005]

QUOTE: Originally posted by TEFFY

GOOD MORNING:

What works for me is: E-7's two digit; E-8's three digit; all steam (most of the locos) are wheel arraingment followed by when they were painted. IE: all of the Mikes are 282X; all of the Berks are 284X; all of the mountians are 482X. "X" is the order in which they were painted and added to the layout. So 2800 was the first Consolidated, and 2801 was the second. Box cars are in the 200 range; hoppers - 300; tanks - 400 and so on.


BIG_BOY_4005:
Length of my track has no bearing on the number of locos I need, it's strickly how much money do I have it my pocket when I walk into the hobby shop. If you've been around very long you know just what I mean.
The wife and I really enjoyed your wife's response to the KISS forum. I thought my wife was going to wet herself she laughed so hard. She has accused me of getting up in the middle of the night to go play trains, but it was just a trip to the bathroom.

Have blessed day and remember SANTA FE ALL THE WAY

Bob

Good morning Bob. Actually that whole business about size of railroad was aimed more at the concept of creating a plausable background story for a freelance or ficticious layout. Reality is always based on the depth of one's pockets. When we get down to it, we as modelers are really no different from the real railroads. Their pockets may seem deeper, but their engines are a lot more expensive. This gives new meaning to the term

Economy of scale.[swg]

By the way, Big Girl isn't my wife (yet), we just share the roundhouse. [:0][;)][:D][:p][:X] I'll show this to her when she gets up, it will make her day.[^]

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: BIG_BOY_4005:
The wife and I really enjoyed your wife's response to the KISS forum. I thought my wife was going to wet herself she laughed so hard. She has accused me of getting up in the middle of the night to go play trains, but it was just a trip to the bathroom.

Have blessed day and remember SANTA FE ALL THE WAY

Bob

When Big_Boy told me to come read this topic I found it very interesting but was kind of unsure why he specifically had me look. [%-)] Then I found this post. I laughed until I cried. [(-D][(-D]

What makes it even funnier is that Elliot wasn't even sure I should post it--but I knew that I was not the only one with a guy like this(and I wouldn't trade him for the world)[:p][:D]

Maybe your wife and I should have a train widows anonymous group---"Hello, my name it Tammy, and my man "KISSES" trains----HIIIIIIIII TAMMYYYYYYYY[:-,][;)][:P]

[AltonFan]

There was an article on this subject in Railroad Model Craftsman in the mid-1970s.

[johncolley]

Sounds like some folks have either too much money or waaaay to much time on their hands! I can't come close to imagining having either of those kinds of problems.

[locomutt]

I use a 3 digit numbering system.
There is not too much room for varation.
100-engines(diesel)
200-box cars,etc.
Cabeese are in the 500 series.
All foreign road cars are their actual number.[:)]

[Morpar]

Thanks for all the input, I've got some really good, useful ideas going now, and my hair isn't thinning as quickly from being pulled out! I particularly like the suggestions from clinchvalley and arbfbe. These seem to be most useful to my situation right now. As for the road's background, the Great Lake Central is in theory the size of the Union Pacific and Norfolk Southern combined. The only true transcontinental railroad in the U.S. This way I can cover most all of the locomotives that I admire and can afford! In the real world my current loco count is 34 diesel, 4 electric, and 18 steam, all in various states of building and rebuilding. I just feel that when I can build a layout again, it should appear to exist beyond the layout, therefore having a numbering system in place that encompasses many more locos than I have should seem more realistic. Then again, maybe I am just insane and I am creating problems that don't exist. As for too much time on my hands, this is what I do when the equipment is running at work. I don't have to hide this kind of work if anyone important comes up, (unlike Freecell or Solitare on the laptop!) and I can keep from falling asleep while the line is running. As long as I can fit the files on a memory stick, I can work on my roster, decals, inventory, paint schemes, etc. at work with no problems. I think my next step will be to try and get information on when certain locos were produced by Alco, EMD, and GE, then figure out how many of each and when I would have had them. This will keep me out of trouble for quite a while! Thanks again to everyone for all the help.