Rejuvenating Turnouts

[jeep35]

Folks, I'm sure this question has been answered before so please forgive me for asking again. I have salvaged a number of Shinohara turnouts from a layout and I would like to reuse them. I think they need a bit of tuning up. They have some electrical problems (the train stops when it enters the turnout), I think there is something wrong with that little piece of metal that conducts current through the rails. Is there a way to repair this or modify the turnout to eliminate this problem? Mechanically they function fine so I would hate to scrap them.
Anybody got an idea?

Thanks
Jim

[Anonymous]

Jim,

Don't scrap em'. The Shinohara are power routing turnouts. These are famous for losing contact when the points don't make clean contact against the stock rails. There are a variety of fixes. One of the most reliable is to electrically insulate the points from each other, then hard wire each point rail to its respective stock rail. Then you need to gap both sides of the frog. You can leave the frog un powered or power it with a switch mounted to the switch machine. Search the forums for more complete threads on this topic. MR has done numerous articles on this topic as well. While this fix can take a while for each turnout they do work very well after the modification is done. I'm sure some of the other guys have some ideas...

Guy

[jeep35]

How would I insolate the rails? It looks like they are soldered to a metal strip.

Jim

[Anonymous]

Jim,

Isolating the points??? There are several ways to do this. One is to unsolder the points and replace the strip with a piece of copper clad circuit board that has the copper cut in the middle to insulate the points. The points are soldered to the board and it becomes the throwbar. Another method is to cut the metal strip with a moto tool and re-attach the points to the plastic throwbar underneath by mecanical means, some guys use small screws directly through holes they drill in the metal into the plastic. One friend I have replaces the the throwbar with plastic twist tie material and uses small bolts to hold on the points.

You are probably thinking that this is a lot of hassle. I agree, but having reliable switches in the end is worth it. I have seen all the modifications work, though I have only modified Pecos myself and they have insulated points to begin with. I will be doing these modifications to Micro-engineering and Shinohara switches when I get out of the staging and helix part of my layout construction.

I have also bought some BK and Railway engineering switches that come assembled without ties. You have to spike them down to ties you lay yourself.....I have high hopes for these.

Guy

[Don Gibson]

most common PROBLEM is point to rail contact. In time you lose continuity due to contamination.
Easiest SOLUTION is to use switch machines with electrical contacts and route the power past the points - to the frog end. All it takes is SPDT contacts - available on most switch machines: Tortoise, Rix, NJ, Tenshodo.

[CBQ_Guy]

QUOTE: Originally posted by jeep35

Folks, I'm sure this question has been answered before so please forgive me for asking again. I have salvaged a number of Shinohara turnouts from a layout and I would like to reuse them. I think they need a bit of tuning up. They have some electrical problems (the train stops when it enters the turnout), I think there is something wrong with that little piece of metal that conducts current through the rails. Is there a way to repair this or modify the turnout to eliminate this problem? Mechanically they function fine so I would hate to scrap them.
Anybody got an idea?

Thanks
Jim

Don't feel bad. From what I've heard, the Shi%#yhara turnouts usually need a bit of tuning up when they're new, too!

[Don Gibson]

CBQ-Guy: I must have missed something:

Since ALL PRE-FAB turnouts are set in 'stone' (plastic), I'm wondering how one "tunes" them? There is not a lot one can do. Insert shims between the guard rails?(Shinohara doesn't need them) .. I've used most of the brands out there (Atlas Snap, Custom Line, True Scale, Shinohara, Walthers, Anderson, BK) and I've now replaced everthing with Shinohara made products. I get less derailments.

DERAILMENTS are my criterea for turnouts. The ONLY thing I find better is the Anderson designed BK, with continuous point rails, which one 'spikes' into place with an NMRA guage. Derailments disappear (turnouts are where most derailments start).

Peco is (for me) an 'improved' Snap switch... plastic frog with imbedded rails and curved frog, Note I said "Improved". (It comes in wider radii).

[CBQ_Guy]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Don Gibson

CBQ-Guy: I must have missed something:

Since ALL PRE-FAB turnouts are set in 'stone' (plastic), I'm wondering how one "tunes" them? There is not a lot one can do. Insert shims between the guard rails?(Shinohara doesn't need them) .. I've used most of the brands out there (Atlas Snap, Custom Line, True Scale, Shinohara, Walthers, Anderson, BK) and I've now replaced everthing with Shinohara made products. I get less derailments.

DERAILMENTS are my criterea for turnouts. The ONLY thing I find better is the Anderson designed BK, with continuous point rails, which one 'spikes' into place with an NMRA guage. Derailments disappear (turnouts are where most derailments start).

Peco is (for me) an 'improved' Snap switch... plastic frog with imbedded rails and curved frog, Note I said "Improved". (It comes in wider radii).

QUOTE: Originally posted by Don Gibson

CBQ-Guy: I must have missed something:

Since ALL PRE-FAB turnouts are set in 'stone' (plastic), I'm wondering how one "tunes" them? There is not a lot one can do. Insert shims between the guard rails?(Shinohara doesn't need them) .. I've used most of the brands out there (Atlas Snap, Custom Line, True Scale, Shinohara, Walthers, Anderson, BK) and I've now replaced everthing with Shinohara made products. I get less derailments.

DERAILMENTS are my criterea for turnouts. The ONLY thing I find better is the Anderson designed BK, with continuous point rails, which one 'spikes' into place with an NMRA guage. Derailments disappear (turnouts are where most derailments start).

Peco is (for me) an 'improved' Snap switch... plastic frog with imbedded rails and curved frog, Note I said "Improved". (It comes in wider radii).

Don, et al,

I dunno what you have to actually do, or can do with them. The original poster of this thread mentioned he thought they needed some sort of tune up. Ask him.

My experience and resulting comments come from the warnings of other long term modelers in the area who have used a couple of the Shinny's to fit a particular application, and advised against them, and in my operations on their layouts. Whenever they have had a problem with, or derailment at, a turnout location over the years, it has always been the Shinoharas, when Peco was the only other brand of turnout in use, and mostly with the Shinny's when other brands were used as well.

A couple they had to play around with right out of the box to get them close to working somewhat reliably. I don't know their particulars, but one guy described them as "very finicky". Their decades of experience in the hobby are enough for me to trust. A word to the wise should be sufficient, and all that.

Many in this area use the Peco's and are GREATLY satisfied with their quality and rock sold performance and dependability. If something goes wrong on a turnout, especially a derailment on any of these layouts, it's NEVER with the Peco's, and many times on the Shinny's.

That's the info and operational experiences I've had. I'm glad that you seem to have had better luck in your experiences with them over the years.