Hobby Shops

[ericsp]

Out here in Central California the hobby shops have been decimated over the past few years. The only train shops that I can think of from south of Sacramento to the Tehachapi mountains are one in Fresno and one in Bakersfield. Looking through old issues of Model Railroad, over the past 12 years there have been the following hobby shops out here 2 in Stockton, 1 in Turlock (mainly trains with some airplanes), 1 in Merced, 2 in Fresno, and 2 in Bakersfield. That is 6 of 8 (75%) train shops that have closed. Furthermore, the remaining two are on the small side and have contracted.

The general hobby shops that carry trains have done one of three things. One, they have closed. Two, they carry very little trains whereas they used to have a large selection. Or, three, they have cut the train selection but not drastically. For example, there is one hobby shop that used to have a whole aisle (about 40' long) with only train stuff on both sides and a large locomotive selection behind a counter. Now they have a total of probably only a few dozen train related stuff, certainly less that one hundred.

Is this the situation where all of you live? Judging from thickness of the hobby shop directory in MR it appears so.

What does everyone think is the cause? How much are online shopping and fewer model railroaders each to blame?

[darth9x9]

Within 50 miles of my house (central Maryland), there are at least 12 better known LHS. Of which one is a great discounter and mail order store. Two others offer similar pricing and are much smaller shops. The rest all charge retail and one charges retail plus 10%. I am amazed that they stay in business at all. Someone must be buying from them to keep them in business.

[Anonymous]

within 12 miles ofmy house RailRoad Hobbies (which is an excellent LHS!) and HobbyTown USA which has a great selection of new releases locomotives

[ericsp]

QUOTE: Originally posted by AC44CTE

within 12 miles ofmy house RailRoad Hobbies (which is an excellent LHS!) and HobbyTown USA which has a great selection of new releases locomotives

I have been to Railroad Hobbies. Unfortunately, the is the closest hobby shop to me with much of a selection at all and it is a considerable distance away. I have not been to any of the train shops in Sacramento, so I do not know what they are like. The nearest Hobbytown USA does not have much of a selection. However to give you an idea of the size of the local trains shop, Hobbytown USA does have a larger selection of cars and locomotives than does the local train shop. Also, the local train shop does not give receipts.

There used to be a good train shop in Fresno, Fresno Model Railroad, which closed in February 2003. It was about 2/3 the size of Railroad Hobbies. It is too bad it is no longer around.

I have always received good customer service when I go into Railroad Hobbies. However, when I e-mail them to see if they have something in stock it almost always takes at least two e-mails before I get a reply.

By the way , what does LHS stand for? I am guessing HS means hobby shop.

[IRONROOSTER]

LHS - Local Hobby Shop

In northern Viginia, they have have been fading over the years. A couple have gone out of business in the last year or so. And there are only about 4 or 5 left with a reasonable selection - a couple have a good selection.

I suspect that part of the problem is that this is a high cost area and competing with mail order discounters is tough. Everyone buys based on price - this is the era of Walmart. Low volume businesses tend to get squeezed out. The number of general craft stores has also declined. I think what's new is that a lot of small dealers don't have a store anymore, but do all their selling at shows.

Enjoy
Paul

[CNJ831]

Much seems to depend on just where you live. From what I'm told, there are a far greater number of hobby shops currently in the mid western region of the country than on either coast. In the Northeast totally RR-oriented hobby shops have been in decline for quite some years now. Whereas I used to have at more than half a dozen within less than an hour's drive (outside NYC), now there is one, plus a one big mailorder dealer not generally open to walk-in business.

The story I hear from hobby shop owners is that while hobbyist spending has remained about the same, the money is going for far fewer purchases of higher priced items. Sale of these higher priced items go mainly to the big mailorder discounters, not LHS. At least on the two coasts, slowly but surely the little guys are being put out of business as this trend increases and the hobby itself shrinks in size.

CNJ831

[Anonymous]

Well 10-12 years ago there was a really nice one in Plano but its now gone.
I was a preferred customer there after throwing down tons of cash of course.
Bobbye Halls is now gone of course she didnt really have anything I wanted and i swear the same brass engines were in the counter ever since I was 12 I am now 33. There is a place that has tone of G guage and lionel with mabye one sholf of HO scale with stuff from ancient days of course they have brought the price up on those items to match the newer stuff.
Discount trains in Addison is the place I have been 3 times but I can only make it on saturday. I have thrown a large amount of cash at them also but they are an hour away. I ordered all of my track online due to a huge discount for such a large amount of product I know for a fact that a LHS would never do that gotta take advantage money wise anywhere I can. I wenr to discount to get the skinny on DCC and bought my zephyr there and a few odds and ends here and there. I will probalby go more often and spend more money as things progress
I need to find out if they have lay away that makes a huge difference in a train shop.

[BRAKIE]

Luckly here in Ohio one can still find train only hobby shops.Sadly the numbers seem to be declining.[:(] I can readily name 3 such shops one in Tiffin,one in Mansfield and one in Columbus(there may be more in Columbus-I only go to one) .For whats its worth I had one dealer to tell me if he had to depend on trains only he would have close his doors years ago.He has a 10% discount.On the down side he has begin to carry more NASCAR stuff and less train stuff except for RTR cars and engines.Still a fairly good shop..

[Eriediamond]

It's a shame the LHS are fadeing away, but we have to face reality also. This hobby is not what it used to be. The younger people won't remember, but years ago model railroading (electric trains) were just about every boys dream and all the big department stores and catalogs were full of Lionel and American Flyer and Marx trains. Just about every boy and some girls had an elecric train on their list to Santa and this hobby really took off back in the 40's and 50's. I think the big thing about trains back then was that they were something you had control of , just like the vidio games of twenty years ago, which brings us to the main reason (I feel anyway) of the decline of the hobby and the hobby shops. Certainly, there are other reasons for this, but back in the days I grew up in, we were a stay at home society and had time on or hands for hobbies, but now we are so caught up in haveing to have the best of everything right now, and both parents working and we just don't have the time or money for the hobby like we used to. I don't think the hobby will ever completely die out but it is, I believe, becomeing a hobby for the rich and famous so to speak. As a reflection on this, one only has to pay attention to this forum. It seems when a newbie comes on for advice on getting started, a vast majority recommend buying kits and starting big, versus a ready to run set with an oval of track, reasoning that one will tire of watching a train run in circles. I'll venture to say though, that most of us older "over the hill" guys got their start with just such a set, then added to it as time and skills progressed. Well, I'll get of the soap box. Sorry, sometimes I do get carried away. Thanks, Ken

[Anonymous]

Exactly none in my neck of the woods. Near Lake Placid, NY. Since, getting back into the hobby a few months ago, I haven't seen the inside of a hobby shop. Before I moved here from NY's Hudson Valley, I lived near some quality shops. Unfortunately I had strayed from the hobby for a few years.

Ordering online or through Ebay opens up selections but it's not the same. Picking up an odd strip of plastic in the shop often triggered modeling ideas. Or that N Scale coach that looked so great on the magazine ad, looked like a lump of coal when you held in your hands.

We don't have the population in this area to support a shop, unfortunately.

Wayne

[Anonymous]

I've got two shops within 15 miles of me. Both are part of a big cahin of hobby shops and probably won't go under. The big shops are nice, they usually have everything I need, but, I really like the smaller shops better. Lower prices, quality service. It's a shame that so many small LHS go under each year.

[mondotrains]

I'd like to jump on the soap box that Ken (Eriediamond) just got off of.

I think the hobby will do just fine, even though some of the LHS (local hobby shops) have closed. We live in changing times, especially with the Internet making so much available at our fingertips.

Ken, I too remember going to a majoy department store in Hartford, Connecticut back in the 1950's and watching those train layouts in the window. However, when you think about it, the hobby was very limited back then. I only remember one LHS and the choices were very limited compared to today. Heck, just in the ten years I've been back in the hobby, I can't believe all the great engines, rolling stock (kit and R-T-R) and sturctures that have been introduced, let alone the electronics.

As far as hobby shops succeeding or failing....it's like any other business. If you open up a small business thinking that you can sit on your butt and watch the money roll in.....it's going to fail. Most businesses today, even huge ones like Circuit City, are realizing that they MUST use the internet to its fullest. I read recently that Circuit City is using Ebay as an outlet, even though they have their own website and dozens of major store outlets. That's good thinking! They know that Ebay has a huge audience and they will try to figure out how to take advantage of that.

If I were to open a hobby shop, I'd create my own website and also use Ebay, probably to sell the rarer items that could command top prices with Ebay's auction process. I'd also use Ebay to sell off stock that isn't moving in my shop and where its taking up valuable shelf space. I've been telling one of our LHS owners for years to place dozens of kits that aren't selling in his shop on Ebay and sell them at a discount. Every foot of shelf space in a LHS is costing rent, heat, and electricity but this guy doesn't get it.
If nothing else, Ebay would get my name out there and draw people to my own website, however, with the ability to open an Ebay storefront, I'm not sure my own website would be necessary, but I'd sure try it.

Local hobby shops need to have people there who can answer questions and make sure that the supplies we modelers need are available. I'm not going to go to a mail order fella to buy a tube of glue or bottle of paint because the shipping is cost prohibitive. And, while I'm in the LHS buying supplies, I might buy a new piece of rolling stock or engine, just because it's there. Which brings up another point. One of our LHS is beginning to operate like a mail order business. Instead of stocking lots of stuff, they take orders and buy just what they need to fill those orders. Thus, they don't have the stock to get me to do an "impulse" buy. Well guess what....without those impulse purchases, they may fail. And, because they sell at full retail or with a 10% discount, they can't really compete with the mail order companies that sell at 20% off or more.

Anyway, that's my two cents and I'll pass the soap box to someone else.
Mondo

[Anonymous]

RailRoad Hobbies is a fine LHS, but if you want an answer on any questions you better call then email, Mike (the owner) is kinda old fashion anddoesnt like internet that much.

[Anonymous]

There's atleast three shops within 20 miles of me. I live in Connecticut so traveling is not a big deal. Even though they're small shops, they have everything and don't mind ordering from Walthers.

[bcammack]

A few really good ones in the central Houston metro area. I thing the economic geography of the hobby industry is changing and the Internet economy is culling the weaker stores from the field.

The recurrent theme I seem to hear is "The hobby isn't what it used to be, and it never was!" :)

[Anonymous]

My LHS, George's Trains, is doing pretty well.

Of course, they do a lot of custom runs of Canadian Prototypes, often exclusive ones (Like the Kaslo F59PH shells) and are one of the big sources for non-exclusive Canadian runs, so they draw in a lot of business from all over.

[Anonymous]

We did have one here, I think they're still in business, not sure though. The last time I was there, they seemed to focus on large scale. This after a change of mgt or ownership. A dark, dusty old place, it was. Up till 4-5 years ago, they seemed to be "train people", then they became "money people", stocking mainly items that sold well. Nothing wrong with making a profit, but I need what I need, not what they want to sell. Then there's the "full retail price no matter what" issue, and a 7% tax on everything. Is that any worse than shipping charges? The internet is no panacea, either. For a bottle of paint or a piece of sandpaper, it's not at all convenient. I've had a re-painting project held up for months waiting for decals and paint. I even spent two years with Train Sim in an effort to enjoy railroding with out having to buy stuff constantly. In my case, I can't just keep buying stuff. $30 here, $50 there..jeez. Anyway, I found 3D railroading more satisfying than TrainSim, and much less crash-prone, too. Now I feel damned if I do and damned if I don't.

We had a another train-oriented store a while back that never (it seems) re-stocked. Same stuff for sale for YEARS! At full retail. As the post above implied, he wanted to sit back and make millions, when that didn't happen he went under and blamed the hobbyists for not shopping there!

smyers

[brothaslide]

QUOTE: Originally posted by ericsp

Out here in Central California the hobby shops have been decimated over the past few years.

If you ever get over to Atascadero, go over to Central Coast Trains. There is a really great HS in Santa Clara (next to San Jose) called the Train Shop. The prices are great and they have a huge selection (kits, RTR, brass, books, etc.).

[Noah Hofrichter]

The best hobby shop for about 60 miles around closed in april, much to my dismay. Being only thirteen, I need a Good hobby shop That provides good personal service to ask more "you have to see it" questions. There is one about 30 miles away that's still fairly good, but it's in the wrong direction so we never go there. I hate haveing to pay the $5.00 shipping fee from walthers, but there's no LHS that'll order it around since that one closed. I'm really in dismay about it, as right now i'm "shopless" somethign i haven't been since I got in thi hobby 5 years ago. It really saddens me to see the LHS on the decline. I started a thread about it a few months ago, trying to get people to support there local hobby shop over always going to the internet to shop for things.

Noah

[jrbernier]

A lot of the LHS's are still there, but they do not advertise in MR anymore in the dealer listings pages. In the Mpls/st Paul area, the number of shops really hav not changes, just new ones replace old ones. What I have seen is more discounting in some LHS's - Something unheard of before. I am sure that the train show/internet dealers have made an impact, but over the past 2 years they have been raising their discount prices - I suspect the train show dealers are getting tired of long weekend's and low profits. Also several LHS's seem to be getting into web sites with order capability.

Jim Bernier

[AntonioFP45]

Seems like here on the Florida west coast model railroad shops are doing well. There is a large senior citizen population, quite a number of seniors are modelers.

My LHS, Happy Hobo Trains is doing well. Good service and has recently jumped onboard the "DCC Train."

NIce discounts on Proto 2000 locomotives.

[Anonymous]

I live in the Santa Cruz, CA area. The local train shop closed here about 5 years ago. He was a nice guy but was mainly into Lionel and had inconsistent service and expertise in HO and other scales. The local toy store had some items... paint , Woodland scenics and some limited rolling stock. They were put out of business by Toys R Us in a very ugly way a few years ago.

The bright spot is the Train Shop in Santa Clara. Good prices and a very complete selection of almost everything including tons of detail parts and scratchbuilding materials. Vern (the owner) pretty much supplies all of us train nuts in the south bay. Fortunately there are enough of us to keep him in business.

Guy

[Anonymous]

The LHS around me seem to be cutting stock more and more. They stock there shelfs with top sellers. My favorite one has also letts you order straight out of the Walthers catolog. When he does his monthly he adds what you want. You may have to wait little longer but you don't have to pay shipping. This helps him because a model on a shelf isn't making him money. The same way an empty car in a yard isn't making the Railroads money. He's able to make money and we get the cars we want. Works great.
Andrew

[Anonymous]

Ten years ago there were three train hobby shops within 25 miles. Now the nearest one is 40 miles away and doesn't have much of a selection.

[Jetrock]

I live in Sacramento and can speak for the hobbyshops here--there are two really good ones (both are listed in Model Railroader) and one so-so one. Bruce's Trains (in Sacramento) and Railroad Hobbies (in Roseville) are both trains-only, full-sized and well-stocked stores. Riverside Hobbies is more scattershot, but sometimes has interesting items. There is an RC Country Hobbies store but they only carry garden railroad items.

If you were planning on coming up to Sacramento sometime, plan on hitting both stores--they're both worth the trip. If you can make it the same weekend that the Roseville model railroad club has their annual train show--it beats the GATS show hands down! While you're at it you can stop by the Roseville Yards and the CSRM...Sacramento's a good town for train buffs. Maybe that's why there are still a couple full-strength hobby shops here...

[randybc2003]

I live in Eastern Washington State. 30 (+/-) years ago this town had 2 modest hoby shops, a surplus store that carried a lot (at least this kid thought so), & I can rember "another" one starting up. The 3 LHS all advertised in the MR index. Now-a-days, LHS No. 1 is long ka-kput, LHS No. 2 expanded, and shurnk back, and LHS No. 3 has grown to the primary MRR shop around here. Two other LHS rose and receeded. A branch of a national chain - HOBYTOWN - just opened up. The surplus store is as vigorus as ever, with a 2nd branch. There is another small LHS - mostly w/ radio planes and crafts - where MRR is almost an afterthought; though sometimes they have what you might want.

I try to spread my money around, or they might all go out of business. This town is a big retirement town, with both BIG YELLOW and BIG PUMPKIN having A division point. Several "Fallen Flags" also had division points here too. Although I do notice "kids" comming in also.

I think this place has been luck to be "stable" over the long run.

[randybc2003]

I live in Eastern Washington State. 30 (+/-) years ago this town had 2 modest hoby shops, a surplus store that carried a lot (at least this kid thought so), & I can rember "another" one starting up. The 3 LHS all advertised in the MR index. Now-a-days, LHS No. 1 is long ka-kput, LHS No. 2 expanded, and shurnk back, and LHS No. 3 has grown to the primary MRR shop around here. Two other LHS rose and receeded. A branch of a national chain - HOBYTOWN - just opened up. The surplus store is as vigorus as ever, with a 2nd branch. There is another small LHS - mostly w/ radio planes and crafts - where MRR is almost an afterthought; though sometimes they have what you might want.

I try to spread my money around, or they might all go out of business. This town is a big retirement town, with both BIG YELLOW and BIG PUMPKIN having A division point. Several "Fallen Flags" also had division points here too. Although I do notice "kids" comming in also.

I think this place has been luck to be "stable" over the long run.

[wd45]

We're pretty lucky. We have a good one on the east side of Indy (Trains Central), plus the Hobbytown in the Castleton area is a good source, as well. We have another one just down the road from Trains Central (Train Yard? I think?), but it caters mainly to Lionel, but a great selection of them if you're doing Lionel.
Mike

[ericsp]

There is a HobbyTown USA here also. It is closer to my home, has a better selection, and better customer service than the train shop in town. Therefore I go mainly the the HobbyTown USA (I am fortunate that a model railroader works there and knows what I am talking about), however the train shop is close to where I work has more details and decals, so I go there sometimes also.

I could not even get the guy at the train shop to order something. I kept going in to see if he had ordered it and he would say not yet, finally he said that the company was not currently making the part . I went to Hobbytown the next day and had the part in one and a half weeks. The part was from Branchline Trains, so I could not order it from Walthers or the manufacturer. The amazing thing is that this train shop has outlasted all of the other train shops in the area that had a larger selection and better service.

Occasionally I do go up to Roseville to see what is in the yard and go to Railroad Hobbies. It makes me think about moving up there (there are also more companies in line with my career up there).

[Anonymous]

I have to travel a minimum of 35 miles to find two trains stores I visit. There was one hobby store locally. The owners retired and sold the shop. The new owners couldn't run a """" House so it went under. It was for this area a very large train shop specializing in HO. Many of us miss it.