Rolling stock frustration

[Anonymous]

I am back in the hobby after a too long absence, but I may not be back for long. Granted there are a heck of a lot of great new products out there, but my frustration level is at overload because manufactures (in most cases) either can't or won't put the era of their offering on the outside of the box! Some makers, Branckline comes to mind, are right on top of the issue. If I'm looking for a late 50's gon, Branchline tells me. But what about the rest? You would think that the NMRA, with all its standards and "warrants", could do something about it. Or don't most modelers these days care what they are running?
Just asking.

[Anonymous]

The trend seems to be that the manufactures expect the modelers to be on a level such that they have reasearched the topic to the point the know what rolling stock was in their era. I model GN in the Big Sky Blue era. So Alot of what is out there will work on my layout, But I still have to do alot of custom painting becasue not much of it is geared for the late 60s. the selection seems split right down the middle of Mid 1950s. the skips to the 1980s to the present. Alot of what is avialable in both selections will work. But I need to repaint alot to get the late 1960s look.

James

[Roadtrp]

I had just this problem and posted about it back in March. Orsonroy was kind enough to help me out with the following information:

40' box car: 1900-1980, with the peak years being 1918-1965
50' plug door box car: 1950-1980
50' single door boxcar: 1918-1990
50' double door box car: 1918-1990

40' quad hopper: 1918-1990
3 bay 100 ton hopper: 1925-1990
56' center flow covered hopper: 1956-2000

11,000 gallon tank car: 1940-1990
23,500 gallon tank car: 1960-2000

36' reefer: 1890-1960
50' steel reefer: 1940-1970

50' gondola: 1918-1990
Coalveyor gondola: 1970-2000

Trailer flat cars: 1935-2000
Husky stack well cars: 1975-2000

I don't know if the thread is still around some where, but it would be worth looking for. Several others also gave me good information, including nfmisso giving me a very good rundown on the specific years I am modeling. The initial post was on March 13, 2004. I printed out the thread, which is how I was able to come up with the information I posted above. [:)]

[ericsp]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Roadtrp

I had just this problem and posted about it back in March. Orsonroy was kind enough to help me out with the following information:

40' box car: 1900-1980, with the peak years being 1918-1965
50' plug door box car: 1950-1980
50' single door boxcar: 1918-1990
50' double door box car: 1918-1990

40' quad hopper: 1918-1990
3 bay 100 ton hopper: 1925-1990
56' center flow covered hopper: 1956-2000

11,000 gallon tank car: 1940-1990
23,500 gallon tank car: 1960-2000

36' reefer: 1890-1960
50' steel reefer: 1940-1970

50' gondola: 1918-1990
Coalveyor gondola: 1970-2000

Trailer flat cars: 1935-2000
Husky stack well cars: 1975-2000

I don't know if the thread is still around some where, but it would be worth looking for. Several others also gave me good information, including nfmisso giving me a very good rundown on the specific years I am modeling. The initial post was on March 13, 2004. I printed out the thread, which is how I was able to come up with the information I posted above. [:)]

It would probably be more accurate to replace the 1990 and 2000 with current.

Also, here a a couple of other tips. Starting in the 1960s most new tankcars did not have underframes. Some still do. Every carbon dioxide tankcar I have seen (even ones built recently) have underframes. Boxcars starting losing their roofwalks in the mid 1960s. I think that boxcars in interchange service were required to have not roofwalk starting in the 1970s or 1980s (I am not sure about that).

Also, there are still plenty of single plug door boxcars out there. Many frequent the tomato processing plants around here. The same is true about reefers (except the processing plants part). In fact Trinity Rail Group has been making a brand new type of reefer. It is somewhere about 72' long and made of fiberglass. I seen large quantities of these every day (BNSF 793000 series and ARMN 110000 series).

FInally, there is also 33,000 gallon high pressure tankcars, 1960s to current.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Roadtrp

I had just this problem and posted about it back in March. Orsonroy was kind enough to help me out with the following information:

I must have been a-sleep at the switch back in March . Excellent historical data.

[IRONROOSTER]

QUOTE: Originally posted by ken1047


... You would think that the NMRA, with all its standards and "warrants", could do something about it. Or don't most modelers these days care what they are running?
Just asking.

The NMRA's warrants are for conformance to standards and recommended practices. In turn the standards and rp's are to ensure interoperability of equipment. Labeling doesn't really fall into that. Several manufacturers are starting to include information about the prototype their models are based on - either in the box or on their website. MR's product reviews usually address this as well.

But to a large extent you will need to research it, especially for paint schemes. There are lists floating around in general terms such as above covering the period of production and operation. Some websites exist for specific roads with information. There are also numerous books and RMC has been running a series on freight cars.

Also, at your LHS you can look at the model and see the built date - which is usually accurate - at least enough for era.

One thought to keep in mind is that freight cars last a long time, but a given class is fewer in number as time goes by. This makes era labeling tough. 40ft steel boxcars starting in the 20's (a few even earlier) were probably at their peak and most typical in the 40's and 50's, but still common in the 60's and 70's and fading after that. But a few were still around into the 80's and beyond - usually rusting away somewhere. So what's their era?

Enjoy
Paul

[DSchmitt]

A lot of the fun in model railroading can be doing the research to determine if a specific car is appropriate.

Some modelers even go to the extreme of modeling a specific location, finding the paperwork (consists) for all the trains that ran through that location on a specific day and modeling them as exactly as the information allows. ( "Oh Oh, there should be 3 John Deere tractors loaded on flatcar ABC 4003 and those 2 SERX hoppers should be empty ")

I once was told I couldn't run a 85' box car during an operating session because it was too modern. The next time I brought doccumentation that it had been delivered to the railroad at least a year before the cut off date.

[orsonroy]

Chuck, glad to be of help. Keep in mind that this is only a VERY basic and rough guide, but one that I always keep in mind whenever I look at a new freight car kit.

Ken, you're sweating the small stuff. No, many of the more mainstream manufacturers don't have the car build or repaint date on the box, but Branchline was the first. Since you have access to the internet, you can easily look up the car date on the Accurail and Red Caboose websites. There are also MANY good websites out there that make educating yourself on car build dates and railroad paint schemes MUCH easier than in the bad old days of the hobby (and the information is MUCH more accurate than the old three standbys for quick reference: the Champ, Walthers or NMRA painting guides, which were mostly flat out WRONG).

It's fairly simple to track down basic paint scheme information. The Pennsy went from the circle keystone to the shadow keystone around 1954. The NYC went from "Lines" to "system" in the mid-1920s. The CB&Q introduced Chinese Red in 1958. PS-1 boxcars were built as early as 1946, but didn't start gaining popularity until after 1951. It's simplest to work on one theme at a time (car type or railroad) and then research it enough to know what should be correct and what shouldn't. Probably the single best (but nowhere near complete) website for this is the NEB&W's freight car website:

http://railroad.union.rpi.edu/

Yes, this is a pay site, but for $5 a month you get access to some fantastic information, which can save you hundreds (or more) in the long run. Plus, you'll be supporting a great resource for the entire modeling community.

And don't be too hard on the manufacturers. I don't know of a single modeling hobby that DOES have the exact (or correct) build dates on their kits. Every armor and aircraft modeler I know has a reference library better than any city library in the country, at least for his area of interest. Research isn't a four letter word.

[Big_Boy_4005]

I'm not sure how much gonodlas have changed in the last 50 years. They certainly aren't the most common cars on the rails. Tank cars have changed a lot for safety reasons. Auto racks and flat cars have evolved and there are a lot of specialty cars out there. Hoppers have gotten bigger, and most are covered except for the specialty coal carriers. Box cars no longer have roof walks or high brake wheels.

The railroads still use and need gondolas, but there really isn't anything different about them. They tend to carry odd loads like scrap metal, and things that are heavy and can be loaded with a crane. I recently saw a string of cars loaded with boulders. Gondolas are perhaps the most abused cars on the rails.

[orsonroy]

Believe it or not, there are more gondolas on the rails today than there are box cars! Even during the steam-era, gondolas were car type #2, next to box cars. Hoppers were #3.

Gondolas are the perfect car for railroads. They can carry absolutely anything if they have to. True, they're mostly used for scrap and bulk loads, but you can throw lumber in them if you have to, or dimensional steel. Heck, I've seen a new bus in a gondola! During the steam-era, most railroads west of the Mississippi used gondolas instead of hoppers, for carrying coal and other mineral loads. They were also the default pulpwood car until recently.

And gons HAVE changed over the past 50 years, mostly in length. 42' gons were very common in 1954, but I defy you to find one today. Many, many gons also had drop doors in 1954. I've only EVER seen one outside a museum or scrap line, and that was a 1956-built ATSF GS gon, in a MOW string two years ago.

[Anonymous]

Note that while Gondolas are quite common, many, if not most of them are mistakenly called hoppers, as most coal today moves in Gondolas, as does ore. Your typical 52'6" Steel gondola is less common than it once was, but still reasonably common.

Unit trains with Coalveyors are probably the most common way to find gondolas today.

[Anonymous]

Good thread here!

Technically, couldn't you just look at the built date on the model? If so, then I guess the mfg doesn't really need to state the era on the box. That won't tell you the range of era's the car could operate in, only it's starting point. But then again stating "1950's Era" on the box doesn't either, rather it's more like the built date.

Are the model mfg's very accurate with their blt dates? If not, then you could have a car that could be historically accurate and appropriate for a 1950's era club layout, yet technically could be disqualified because of an erroneous (later) blt date. Or visa versa, you could have a car that could be erroneously pre-dated, thus historically inaccurate yet "technically" accurate. How would the club treat that case? How should it? I would side towards historical accuracy myself or perhaps disallow the car until it is both historically and technically accurate (ie has the built date corrected.)

For your own/personal layout run it anyway you see fit - afterall, you're the boss! If you want to run NFL cars or the Proto Popsicle cars, have at it!! Enjoy the hobby,

Greg

[orsonroy]

Greg,

I'm usually more interested in the correct paint scheme on the right car for my era, than I am in what most modelers call the "new" date. This date changed every 12-48 months, depending on the car type, so most manufacturers get it wrong anyway. That's why Champ and Sunshine make decals for reweigh dates. For ten minute's worth of work and two decals, I'll have a car exactly right for my cutoff date of 1950, so long as I didn't screw up and buy a car with the wrong paint scheme. It's a smallish detail, but one that makes my world go 'round.

[CBQ_Guy]

This happens a lot with trucks and vehicles, too. Tony Koester addressed it in one of his columns a few years back, IIRC. Guess the manufacturers didn't get the hint (won't be the first time...).

[Anonymous]

Ray,

Sometime I'll try those reweigh date decals, BTW I have the IM tank car I got off of you weighted and half-assembled, however the Adair Shops weights I put in it seem like a lot more than 2 1/2 ounces.

Anyways, Is there anything besides using Micro-Sol to remove the old lettering? I tried this on one of my Red Caboose kits and it took the paint off but didn't touch the re-weigh date!

[nfmisso]

Christopher;

Just do what the real railroads do: paint over the old date, and apply the new date - which works until they repaint the whole car.

[orsonroy]

Nigel's right, Chris. I don't bother stripping lettering as small as the reweigh date, I just paint over it. Heck, I'll sometimes just take a fineline Sharpie and cover the reweigh date that way (railroads weren't too picky about what paint they used to cover the old RW date; you'd see black on a boxcar red car all the time).

If you do want to try to strip the lettering, I'd try 91% rubbing alcohol and a Q-tip. A little scrubbing, and the lettering should come right off.

[tstage]

Personally, just having the "BLT" (and/or "NEW" or repainted) date on the outside of the box would be a help. What I end up having to do is to open up box after box of rolling stock kits, in hopes of locating the almost ledgible built dates. (Actuallly, one of the local hobby shops that I frequent already has the kits open on the shelves, which makes it a little easier to browse through qucikly.)

I don't mind doing some research to find out about the rolling stock. I just got into the hobby in May and one of my first complaints was this very subject. I asked one of the train buffs at another hobby store why the manufactures don't put the built dates on the labeling. He just shrugged his shoulders.

To me: built date + label = smart manufacturing. It shows me that manufacturer cares not only about the customer but also the hobby.

I can't imagine that it would cost the manufacturers a whole lot more to include this on their packaging. I've been known to be wrong before.. Actually I thought I was wrong once, but I was mistaken.

Tom

[michealfarley]

One of the best investments to help with this problem would be to purchase the freight car book for your particualr railroad(s) from Morning Sun. You can usually pick these up for $35-$40 and the photos include car delivery dates, number series, builder, etc. for a large chunk, if not every series of freight car your railroad owned. They are also a big benefit when decaling, as you have actual prototype photos in addition to the drawings.

The other manufacturers have not followed Branchline's lead, and it doesn't look like they will. You may have to spend a little time in your favorite armchair.

[Anonymous]

Ray and Nigel, I just tried that, after I weathered the ITC flatcar, it doesn't look too bad, save for the fact that since this was my first weathering job ever, I think I kind of over-did it.

[nfmisso]

Guys;

I like this dealer for many reasons, one major one being what he includes in his listings:
http://cgi6.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?MfcISAPICommand=ViewListedItems&userid=bzorncvn&include=0&since=-1&sort=3&rows=0

A typical HO listing:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=484&item=5914574676

[darth9x9]

Consider this... let's say the NMRA had an RP to state the era/time period of a car on the outside of the packaging. What would MTH do when it came to their Western Maryland red, white, and black striped (circus scheme) 33,000 gallon tank car? Or the Chessie version? They would have to put FICTITIOUS on the box....and that, IMHO, would detract sales. If being accurate is very important to you, you will have to do your homework so that you are educated enough to choose what is appropriate for you. Heck, even Overland has released brass covered hoppers in the past with road numbers that never existed. You would think with all the money you pay for a brass car and a factory paint job, the road number would be accurate. You can't always assume so.

[Don Gibson]

QUOTE: "my frustration level is at overload because manufactures (in most cases) either can't or won't put the era of their offering on the outside of the box! - Kent 1047

Too many cars transend their 'Era's" with upfrades, plus too many 'beginners would pass up a car just because of the so called "era - or possibly any other disclaimers

"This coupler may not couple on 18" curves"
"This engine may stall on insulated frogs"
" This product may be injurious to your wallet"

HOW ABOUT "This pair of pants may not fit as you get older" ??

Certain products are made for certain Era's - MDC's 'Old Time' 36' cars.They are great cars. and How many get sold? Today's 'Modern Era' will eventually become obsolescent..

Part of a hobby is doing your homework - if one has enough interest