foam base?

[Anonymous]

Hello, my main base is a pice of plywood, but ive noticed that pplz are using foam as a main base, how do you nail track down to foaM?[:X]

[jwmurrayjr]

Tim,

I use Elmer's white glue to secure either cork roadbed or track to the foam. The track is held in place temporarily with pins while the glue dries. I use Elmer's to glue almost everything related to the track and "benchwork". You can see some examples in the link below.

[:)]

[orsonroy]

You don't nail anything to foam, it won't hold nails. So we who use foam (I love the stuff, and will probably never go back to traditional methods!) have to glue down track.

Basically any adhesive works, but some work better than others. While Glue, wood glue, tacky glue, rubber cement, Liquid Nails, and silicone caulk seem to be the favored glues to use. I prefer caulk, but have also used wood and white glues with good results.

Some people are using various tapes to lay track. Truck topper tape works OK, but only has adhesive on one side. I tried double sided carpet tape, but humidity defeated the bond (some have suggested laying the tape and track, and then using a heat gun to partially melt the adhesive for a stronger bond)

Using an adhesive to lay track is a bit more complex than nailing track down. You generally have to preassemble track components and then transfer them to the adhesive, meaning that you have to be confident in your tracklaying and planing abilities before you start spreading glues around. You also have to temporarily tack down the track until the adhesive dries (I use push pins). But adhesives do the job very nicely, and allow you to use what I consider the best material for buildig benchwork, terrain and roadbed: foam!

[nfmisso]

I have one item to add to Ray's explanation, that is in addition to push pins (~1½ to 2" long) I use weights to hold the roadbed and later track in place while the adhesive sets up. Cans of food and beverage work well, and don't got to waste.

[eng22]

Orsonroy,

Tell me more about foam and benchwork. I was planning on putting my foam on a plywood base board. Would you suggest no plywood under the foam, if yes, what then?

[orsonroy]

QUOTE: Originally posted by eng22

Orsonroy,

Tell me more about foam and benchwork. I was planning on putting my foam on a plywood base board. Would you suggest no plywood under the foam, if yes, what then?

Hi Craig,

I generally recommend a THIN plywood underlayment with 2" foam on top. My 12x25, three level layout is made up of 1/4" Lauan plywood with 2" foam on top, hung from the walls with metal shelf brackets. It works really well. Some modelers, like Bill Darnaby and his HUGE Maumee Route layout, use the 2" foam without plywood, glued to wood brackets. I like having some wood underneath, both for added strength and to use as an anchor point to attach things like lights, wires, and switch machines.

[Anonymous]

Hey Craig
Whatever you do I would stay away from the "beaded" type of foam board. Really difficult to work with; cutting, shaping, etc.
I made the mistake of covering my flat plywood tables with this beaded type of foam and have learned the hard way, it was a mistake.
George

[eng22]

Ray and George, thanks, good info from both. I have used foam in doing a small display and enjoyed working with it. I like the idea of using an 1/4 underlayment, if for nothing else, the security in knowing that the layout will have a little backbone.

[AggroJones]

I still use 1" white beaded foam as the base. There is no real problem with it. But it kinda messy cutting that crap! Have the vaccum handy.

My cork roadbed is held fine with 1" needle-like pins. No glue. This makes laying track easier cause it 's easy to pull up and shift about. The pins press through the cork and into the white foam. Deep enough to hold it secure, but not so deep it penitrates through the other side.

[Anonymous]

I would be affraid to see the foam give up on the sideway pressure of the pins, in curves, as the cork might try to take back a semi straight shape after the bending. No?

[michealfarley]

I'm sorry, but I don't get it.....

Why would you put foam under your track? Ever try and do some adjusting to track gauge with foam? Get out the super glue and hope for the best. With a plywood base, a little tap-tap with the hammer and nail set and your done. Ever try and remove a turnout to put a switch machine in? Might as well throw it out and get a new turnout. You can't get it off without ruining the ties. With plywood, a few nails, and out comes the turnout. Ever try and solder around foam? Huge melting factor. Plywood doesn't melt.

This is serious discouraging experience from a friend's layout speaking above. Use foam everywhere else, but NOT UNDER THE TRACK!!!

[orsonroy]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Neerie

I would be affraid to see the foam give up on the sideway pressure of the pins, in curves, as the cork might try to take back a semi straight shape after the bending. No?

I would think so, which is why I don't use pins to hold my track to my foam base. Mind you, I'm not saying pins don't work for anyone, I'm just saying they haven't ever worked in my experience. Maybe there's something I'm missing, but I'll stick to gluing track to foam.

[orsonroy]

QUOTE: Originally posted by michealfarley

I'm sorry, but I don't get it.....

Why would you put foam under your track? Ever try and do some adjusting to track gauge with foam? Get out the super glue and hope for the best. With a plywood base, a little tap-tap with the hammer and nail set and your done. Ever try and remove a turnout to put a switch machine in? Might as well throw it out and get a new turnout. You can't get it off without ruining the ties. With plywood, a few nails, and out comes the turnout. Ever try and solder around foam? Huge melting factor. Plywood doesn't melt.

This is serious discouraging experience from a friend's layout speaking above. Use foam everywhere else, but NOT UNDER THE TRACK!!!

Micheal,

I courteously disagree. Foam under track is a completely fine way to build a model railroad. Some of the best modelers in the country are using wholly foam layout construction, even handlaying track on it.

I use Peco, Atlas and Micro Engineering prebuilt track components. I've found that 99.9% of bad gauge issues come from either bad quality control at the time of manufacturer, or from storage damage (track getting hit). If you find a piece that's out of gauge (which takes seconds) don't use it. If you DO find a piece in the layout that's out of gauge, yes, by all means use superglue. Not only will it provide a fantastic hold on the track, but you won't have an unsightly nail head cluttering up the mainline. Gluing track down has the added advantage of not pushing the track out of gauge with nails being driven too far into the roadbed, which is a hugely common issue when using nails.

Removing switches is very simple when using adhesive to lay track: don't glue or solder in the switches! If you've smoothed the area under the switch properly, it'll be completely flat, and you won't have any problems with a switch that's only held in by gravity.

I solder all my track joints and drop feeders every three feet. I've yet to melt foam badly, and rarely melt ties. You must be using a soldering gun to solder track! All you need is a 30-40 watt pencil iron, 60-40 rosin core solder, and some flux. Heat the iron, flux the track, add the feeder, solder, and get out. The whole process should take around 10 seconds. I soldered the feeders on my second level in about an hour, on over 125 feet of track. There's no melting issues if you know how to solder.

Granted, using foam isn't for everyone. If you need to stand on your layout, handlay track, or like using concrete to make mountains, definitely use wood. If you prefer spaghetti-bowl layouts with tracks changing elevation everywhere, you really do need to use spline or cookie-cutter construction. But for a general tabletop layout, or a large shelf-type walkaround layout, foam construction is THE way to go.

[Anonymous]

Recent concerns, that have been raised by some folks, address the possibilty of a catastrophic fire, when using foam. When hot, it gives flamable gasses and those gasses are also very, very toxic. A very small fire will spead very quickly and become un-controllable in a matter of seconds. The gasses, being extreamly toxic, will knock you flat with one breath and then explode when Flash Over occurs. Foams use, should be very limited in this application.

[Anonymous]

Taking precautions with all construction materials ,tools , and applications , are things we need to be aware of. However, if not using foam because it's toxicity ,flashpoint , then throwing your couch,drapes, out before guests come over that smoke ,would be the next logical move . Polystyrene and styrofoam will melt at the touch of a soldering iron tip. While not discounting that fires are posssible, having a proper fire extinguisher nearby is a good idea. Keeping the windows open for proper ventilation is also a must, with all soldering,painting jobs.There are concerns with everything we use. Taking proper precautions are the way to keep using things without freaking everybody out. If it was so dangerous , the manufacturers of hot foam cutting products would be in a world of deep legal troubles by now.

[jwmurrayjr]

QUOTE: If you prefer spaghetti-bowl layouts with tracks changing elevation everywhere, you really do need to use spline or cookie-cutter construction.

Foam also works well with the "cookie cutter" technique.

[:)]

[jwmurrayjr]

I reckon that a train layout with all of its wiring and other electrical stuff is a candidate for "caution" as far as fire is concerned. But that would mainly mean that there should be a main cutoff for the entire layout and that the layout room wiring should be adequate. You should turn off your layout when it's not in use. A main switch and "pilot light" are probably the simplest and surest way to accompli***his. It's easy to forget to unplug things.

It should go without saying that smoke/fire detectors should be located in appropriate spots.

Most of the materials that we use in our layouts are normal "construction" grade materials and are commonly used in the building of homes and offices. It seems reasonable to assume that these materials are safe if properly used.

[:)]

[orsonroy]

Foam insulation's flash point is actually HIGHER than that of wood, meaning that wood should not be used as a layout construction material. If you think foam is dangerous, then so is wood. For those with "concerns" with using flammable materials for layout use, I suggest steel studs and concrete (drywall has about the same flash point as plywood)

[AggroJones]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Neerie

I would be affraid to see the foam give up on the sideway pressure of the pins, in curves, as the cork might try to take back a semi straight shape after the bending. No?

Nope. That has never happend to me. It always managed to stay in place. The cork strips are laid on the drawn out track center line on the foam and held in place with pins ever 4"-5". Then the track is held with the same pins stuck through the ties and between the two cork halves into the foam. It holds up fine. When ballasted, you cant see the pins.