Is it right to squeese a 22 radius? I NEED HELP ON THIS PROBLEM PLEASE.

[traingeek087]

I'll start off with a little background to my problem. In between two reversing loops on my mainline, there is a Isle wide enough to fit one person.

(I know it's not good to have small isles but I have a 10.5X14 ft room.)

I have a 25 radius on my one loop, and I want a 24 on my other. Here's the problem. If I put a 24 radius on my one loop, it shortens the isleway to only 20 inches. If I put it a 22 radius, it makes it 26 inches. What should I do? This is my mainline as I said, So all of my large equipment will be going over this loop.

(I am a little worried about it because most high Quality models are recommended for 24 radius minimum.)

I have autoracks and passenger equipment, so it's the biggest. And I want to be able to run a 30-40 car train of normal sized cars. WHAT SHOULD I DO? ALL COMMENTS AND RECOMMENDATIONS ARE GLADLY ACCEPTED.

Thanks all.

[philnrunt]

How wide is the benchwork in this area. Do you have any adjustment room there? Could you run benchwork just wide enough for your track and some backround flats?
Talk about a rock and a narrow hard place!
How often is the aisle used?Squeezing thru more than a very few times would be a bear.
Going to 22 " would probably result in you being an unhappy camper, with your equipment that you described. But if you do go with 22", make it the best and smoothest track you've ever laid!
Don't worry, the other guys will have better ideas.

[Anonymous]

Traingeek,

We are talking HO, Right??

You are expecting a lot for a small space. Large Equipment, small space, long trains ...something has got to give. A 30 car train of 40' cars in HO is roughly 16' long. A 40 car train would be 22' or more. Switching or running around a train that long in your space might prove difficult. What about passing sidings in your plan? I would suggest some hard thinking on what aspect you want most. What type of layout are you building? Do you need a continous run? Switching? Staging?? Large equipment?? What type of scenery?? To me this is the hardest part: Making those compromises to fit the space.

An around the room track plan would be better suited to your space given the size of the equipment you are going to run. It appears you are going to waste a huge amount of space on your two turnback loops. Two 4' diameter blobs are going to take a huge percentage of the space available just turning the trains. What about a fairly high deck height that is an around the room plan with 30" radius curves and a peninsula island that sticks out into the 14' side off the room??? A duck under at the door is the drawback to this plan. If the bench work is high enough this isn't so bad.

Check out the Armstrong book for more Ideas: Track Planning for Realistic Operation. I would carefully look at the equipment you are going to run and your available space. Large equipment and small rooms means a simpler track plan will be the order of the day. At any rate I wouldn't lower the minimum to 22" on the radius, I think it will look bad and may have operational difficulties, particulary with long trains.

I think it can be done in the space you have, you may not get everything you want on the layout, but then again who does???

I'm sure others have some ideas for you.

My two cents,

Guy

[BRAKIE]

[#ditto] to what Trainnut1250 said.

[Eriediamond]

[#ditto]on Trainnut's reply. What is the purpose of that isleway. If it is used for only maintainance, I'd go with the 24" radius. If you do decide to scrounch down to a 22" radius curve, I would recomend not to super elevate that curve as I think you would just be adding a bigger problem by doing that because of the long cars and long trains. I seriously think you are going to have to make some sacrifices somewhere, as we all do from time to time. Good luck, Ken

[Anonymous]

To echo the comments already posted.......you will NOT be happy with the 22 inch radius, using the equipment you describe. You may well be disappointed with 30-40 car trains with ANY radius on a layout in a room size you are faced with. That being said...there are thousands of H0 railroaders who would be very glad to have a 10.5 ft. x 14 ft. room to play with.
Take the advice to look into alternative layout designs.

I would be tempted to go "around the walls" with a layout in that size room, perhaps with 2.5 foot benchwork width all around the room...you could use 30-36" ( or greater ), radii if you wanted.
One duckunder, or movable section, gets you inside.
Alternatively, you could build an "island" layout in the middle of that room, at 6.5 feet x 10 feet, and STILL have 2 foot aisleways all around....such an "island" would permit you to use up to 36" radius curves if you wanted.
There are combinations of these two, and other alternatives to consider. John Armstrong has been the best known reference for track planning, for decades. Don Mitchell is very innovative, too.
Good luck and regards
Mike[:)][8D]

[IRONROOSTER]

I would do a double track mainline around the room using 36" curves. Put staging tracks in along one side. Add a penisula into the center of the room. This could be a branch line, engine terminal, etc. depending on your interests.
Enjoy
Paul

[Don Gibson]

YOU have to have a layout that fits the ROOM.
YOU have to have curves that fit your LAYOUT.
You have to have ACCESS to all spots.
THESE: are have to's.

(1) YOU have CHOICES on equipment to run.
(2) MOST of today's equipment runs on 22" (hint?).

WHY buy equipment that doesn't run on a layout that doesn't fit in your room ?
What's that old Adage ...THINK AHEAd?

I think PRIORITIES are in order.

[traingeek087]

A little more background.

I have looked into going around the room, but was shot down after two things got in the way.
1.) There are two doors that swing IN to the room, not out, so this eliminates that. (I want to eliminate the door perminantly)
2.) The other door is a closet, it's 24 inches away from the wall, so I could only have a 22 radius at most. This eliminates the whole Idea of long trains because of ONE tight curve.

I also would like to add that my layout is double decked, it has a helix on the inside of the 25 radius loop. The helix is 24 it would make a loop on the bottom, go through the helix, go through the top level and reverse the whole operation.

The last thing is a dream of mine that probably will NOT happen, but I am still trying anyway. I want to remove the door to the closet, remove all that is in it, and relocate the reverse loop in there, this would give it a 25 radius, and then BOTH loops would have 25 radius which would help. But as I said it probably will not happen because my mother will not allow that. (I'm 16 still living at home for all who want to know.) Thanks for the replies, I'm going up to the room now to do some planning. PS any more comments will gladly be accepted. Wink wink.

[traingeek087]

PS. I wi***here was a way to show u photos that I've taken of it. it would help alot

[7j43k]

you seem to think that you have to have your track straightened out before it goes across the closet door. I think that is true because you say that the door is 24" from the wall and so a 22" radius is necessary.

You don't have to have the curve completed before getting to the door. The track can still be curving when it is in front of the door.

Also, I don't see that the two doors in the room opening inward would be a disaster. You won't be able to use a duck-under but you can still use a lift-out or a hinged bridge. It's not really a model of a bridge; it's a section of "land" that's removable. That's why you're able to continue a curve in front of the closet door.

In short, I don't read anything in you comments that lead me to believe that you can't have an around the room layout with wide radius curves ( see comment by others earlier).

There are a surprising number of solutions to layout planning problems. I'm pretty sure there are some out there for you.

Ed

[traingeek087]

The problem I face with having a curve infront of the door is that it would be on a liftout section. What I mean is how can you avoid having a derailment on a curve that's on a liftout section? I really want to have an around the room layout, and It would take a lot of work, but would pay off in the long run, but I don't see how a curve on a liftout section would work. Wouldn't the flange of the engine snag the rail where they seperate, causeing it to "hop" the tracks and thust derail?

[7j43k]

You don't have to have the track dead perpendicular when you cross a liftout gap. It is true that the closer to that perpendicular you can get, the easier the crossing will be, but a bit of an angle and/or a curve can be made to work. I've done it before and I'll be doing it on my next layout.

You should consider putting in guard rails at the gaps--maybe four inches long. Also a bit of beveling at the rail crossing so that the flanges won't have anything to pick at. The trackwork in this area has to be PERFECT and it has to be well anchored. And remember, the closer you can get to that perpendicular crossing, the less problems you'll have.

It is not impossible, however, to pull it off; and if you do, you'll have some nice wide curves to run on.

Ed

[traingeek087]

I was thinking of using a chunk of bachmann 35 radius curve on that, the section would drop out, with one of the pieces of track and plastic ballast haning 50/50 on the table. I would cut the connector peices off the ballast (the fake plastic piece.) so it would be anchored to only one side of the section. Do you think this would work?

[7j43k]

I don't know the Bachmann product, so I can't give you advice directly about that.. I'm not quite sure what you mean with your 50/50 comment. I certainly don't think you want any track hanging over from the main part of the layout as it stands a good chance of getting snagged and damaged. Maybe, if you decide to do the overhanging idea, it would work to have the track overhang FROM the lift out/bridge section.

I should also mention that the lift out or bridge section has to align perfectly every time. You can do this with pins and sleeves, loose pin hinges, or some other way. You'll also have to deal with the electrical connections. On my old layout, the bridge section was rarely removed, so I "hard wired" it but used terminal strips with screws. My new one is going to have an automatic kind of connection so I don't have to deal with wire connecting. One in particular is going to cross a frequently used hallway, so there you go.

I recommend doing a lot of thinking and planning about this concept. Testing, too, wouldn't hurt. Perhaps if you attached your sections of "test" track down to a bit of plywood (one piece only), you could run trains across the proposed gap system to see if de-railments are under control. When you feel you've got it working well, you can transfer the idea to the actual layout. I still would recommend using guard rails. If you decide to do so, you'll have to figure out how to attach them and to also MAKE SURE they're done to at least NMRA standards. These guard rails won't be decorative, they'll be there to work. Of course, if you can get it to work without them, you'll have saved some work.

Ed

[traingeek087]

Ok I see where your coming from I think. I have taken all of your comments and suggestions to thought, and am planning a way to do this right now. I will go around the room. The negative is I will have to disassemble 1/3 of my progress, but oh well. If that's what's needed for a 40 car intermodal, I'm satisfied. The last thing that came to mind is that would it be a good Idea to run the wiring along the woodwork of the door. it's old woodwork, and nothing to show off, would you suggest this?

[7j43k]

If you're talking about how to get wiring to the "other side" of the lift out, sounds great to me. It may not look great though--that's your decision. I'd attach it to the edge of the door trim instead of the face if possible. I would think that someone somewhere makes a tie-wrap that can be screwed down to the edge and that can also be opened and closed repeatedly. This would neaten up the wire run and you could also do re-wiring as necessary. I can't think of a source right off. I might do a search through electronics catalogs.

[traingeek087]

ok, I've decided to run a 30 radius curve around it, with a staging yard in the middle. the tracks that go into the staging will have to be 25 radius though, but this will lead to industries to, so it will make it look more reallistic.

[Anonymous]

The wider and more sweeping the turns are the better.

It just doesn't look right when you've got a long train going around a small little curve.

[johncolley]

Another possibility, if you decide on a lift-out or swing-out section...get some flat trailer connectors from the auto supply store or Wally's for the wiring connectors. I am faced with the same problem too small a room. I have a great layout crammed into a small room. my guests and I have to scrunch around half of my helix because it intrudes on a doorway. (I took out the door) I have 24" radii and my 1940's freights look pretty good on it but the appearance of my passenger train sucks! So I am re-thinking going to larger curves. Good luck.

[Anonymous]

John...I am just planning my layout with 24" curves! Don't tell me that your passenger equipment looks crappy!!! I have a TINY room (9.5' x 10.5' minus closet and door swing). and I was really happy to get 24" in there!

My design is around the room, with the single mainline going through the wall into the closet and exiting the closet through the wall again near the door, where there will be a lift out section then back to the wall and into a island in the middle of the room.

I have pretty tight aisles, but since it's just me, I'm willing to deal...but NOW you have me re-thinking! Dang...just when I had gotten over the frustration of having too small a room! [;)]

[traingeek087]

Hahahaha, I've faced that for 3 years, now you see my problem.

[locomutt]

No offense to anyboby,
I model in"O"scale. I know the importence of curve size.
I did model in "HO" for a few years before changing scales.
But I would not go with less than a 30" curve.

P.S. If anybody cares,I've been modeling for over 40 years.

[easyaces]

22" inches and long cars won't mix! Might work on trains with short cars, but them long ones will derail in a heartbeat!

[Anonymous]

Having recently completed a layout in a tight space with 22" mainline curves I was faced with either (a) duckunder,(b) lift-out, (c) swing-away, or (d) lift-up (hinged). I chose (d). The transfer of power was easy. I used two brass barrel bolts to align track & secure in place, & soldered feed/return wires to either end of bolts.After decorating the "drawbridge" with a row of pine trees, ballast, signals etc it all works perfectly. Hope this helps.

[Anonymous]

Having recently completed a layout in a tight space with 22" mainline curves I was faced with either (a) duckunder,(b) lift-out, (c) swing-away, or (d) lift-up (hinged). I chose (d). The transfer of power was easy. I used two brass barrel bolts to align track & secure in place, & soldered feed/return wires to either end of bolts.After decorating the "drawbridge" with a row of pine trees, ballast, signals etc it all works perfectly. Hope this helps.

[Anonymous]

Having recently completed a layout in a tight space with 22" mainline curves I was faced with either (a) duckunder,(b) lift-out, (c) swing-away, or (d) lift-up (hinged). I chose (d). The transfer of power was easy. I used two brass barrel bolts to align track & secure in place, & soldered feed/return wires to either end of bolts.After decorating the "drawbridge" with a row of pine trees, ballast, signals etc it all works perfectly. Hope this helps.